Jesus Said When He Would Return to the Day

reply to post by Parture


Take your reasoning and all you wrote and insert the name Barack Obama instead of god. I dont think if Obama ordered the mass killings that you would be so understanding if he suddenly said we ont do that anymore because its a new covenant. Your reasoning baffles me. I suspect somewhere deep inside you know you are defending a failed argument. No, its not satan talking to you its common sense. God must be pervasive in everything, consistent to the most minute detail and know everything( the christian god that is). Biblical texts describe a god that changes "his" mind frequently on what is and isnt allowed. Confusing your followers and potentially landing them in the furnace of "hell" doesnt sound very fair. Condeming someone who knows nothing of you is really unfair. Giving us the choice of picking the real god out of a lineup of other "gods" just aint right either.

My god is within me and is pretty fair. If i screw up its with the understanding that there are consequences. I know deep inside that this isnt all there is. Experience has taught me that. I only came to this realization after shedding the ragged, rotting clothes thrown to me by organized religion. I learned to read various religious texts in a new way.

I'll stop debating you as I have given you things to consider. Find your own truth. Even your god will not hold it against you if you stop listening to organized religion and look for him within.

Peace brother.

Originally posted by Parture
The answer is found in Deut. 13.17,18. "Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors. The LORD your God will be merciful only if you listen to his voice and keep all his commands that I am giving you today, doing what pleases him."

He will be merciful to YOU, after you have done what he said. Deut 13 15,16:

"[15] Thou shalt forthwith kill the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, and shalt destroy it and all things that are in it, even the cattle. [16] And all the household goods that are there, thou shalt gather together in the midst of the streets thereof, and shalt burn them with the city itself, so as to consume all for the Lord thy God, and that it be a heap for ever: it shall be built no more."

See, you only quote the part where he has mercy to YOU....after you have killed everyone and burned the city. It doesnt change that fact. Not so good for everyone in the city.

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard
reply to post by Parture

 

Take your reasoning and all you wrote and insert the name Barack Obama instead of god. I dont think if Obama ordered the mass killings that you would be so understanding if he suddenly said we ont do that anymore because its a new covenant. Your reasoning baffles me. I suspect somewhere deep inside you know you are defending a failed argument. No, its not satan talking to you its common sense. God must be pervasive in everything, consistent to the most minute detail and know everything( the christian god that is). Biblical texts describe a god that changes "his" mind frequently on what is and isnt allowed. Confusing your followers and potentially landing them in the furnace of "hell" doesnt sound very fair. Condeming someone who knows nothing of you is really unfair. Giving us the choice of picking the real god out of a lineup of other "gods" just aint right either.

My god is within me and is pretty fair. If i screw up its with the understanding that there are consequences. I know deep inside that this isnt all there is. Experience has taught me that. I only came to this realization after shedding the ragged, rotting clothes thrown to me by organized religion. I learned to read various religious texts in a new way.

I'll stop debating you as I have given you things to consider. Find your own truth. Even your god will not hold it against you if you stop listening to organized religion and look for him within.

Peace brother.

edit on 1-5-2012 by Mike.Ockizard because: spelling

The old covenant has passed. We are under the new covenant now. Under the old covenant things were very barbaric so a commensurate action was needed like killing off tribes of people engaged in human sacrifices. Barack Obama should say we are under the new covenant now so we don't kill people like we did in the past, for the most part because they don't engage in the same dispicable behaviors as much. Proof is Israel survived, those other nations no longer exist, and Jesus came into the world through the nation of Israel. It is an accomplished victory of the past. God was right, you are wrong. This behavior of God in the past is consistent with today, because today if human sacrifices became pervasive, similar actions of the past would be required to stop such horrific evil. But the New Covenant accounts for the fact times have changed.

Why do you blame God your choice to go to Hell? That's your choice. He gives you the choice. God gives you the choice to follow any god you want. Any religion that is true would be accessible. There is only 3. Chritianity, Hinduism, Islam. Islam is wrong because it grew out of a guy in a cave six centuries later who said Jesus never died on the cross without any evidence. Hinduism is wrong because you are not coming back as a chicken if you sin too much. Only Christianity is true and personal for enters His creation. And you can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the testimony of the Apostles seeing Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings.

He does not force salvation on you. How many people follow your god? Just you probably. So what makes you think your god is the correct one since you are the only one who follows your god? Sounds like your following yourself.

Realize only in Christianity does sin get properly dealt with. Sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell. If you keep the whole law except for one little tittle of it, you are guilty of sin and eternally separate yourself from an infinite perfect and great God. You are flesh. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and the verdict is death. You cannot atone for your own sins since you are the source of the problem. You can't refine or educate your flesh. It mus die. The solution is God's Son atones for your sins, pays the penalty you ought to pay, and saves you if you were willing to receive what He did for you. Only a sinless perfect God can atone for sins, and Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh to do just that. The choice is yours.

The problem with Christianity is that it is not organized, and God in His word says this is the problem (Laodicean church period of "differening opinions"), that Christians are disjoined. It is needs to be organized with Apostles directly chosen by God who appoint Elders of a church locality who in turn approve the elders of each meeting place.

Originally posted by gavron
after you have killed everyone and burned the city

That applied to Israel back then under the old covenant. Today we are under the new covenant. Israel would be wrong to kill everyone in Lebanon today. Lebanon doesn't throw their children into the fiery mouth of the god Molech. Are suicide bombers human sacrifices? Not really. They are acts of war like Japan Kamikazes.They aim to kill other people rather than being a sacrifice.

But USA, Europe and Israel might not be wrong to invade Syria becaue their leaders are evil. Same goes for Iran has a nuclear bomb ready to be deployed, for their president says it wants to destory Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself under that threat.

Just know that no matter what happens, Israel will forever remain a nation now. Nothing you can do to stop that. During the Great Tribulation they are overrun for about three years then Jesus steps down and reclaims the land for Israel even the Euphrates River (Gen. 15.18).

Originally posted by Parture
That applied to Israel back then under the old covenant. Today we are under the new covenant. Israel would be wrong to kill everyone in Lebanon today.

So, we are no longer using the old, traditional Bible anymore? Bible version 2.0? The original Bible was only written for those in Israel? So, everyone else in the world can ignore the commandments?

Originally posted by gavron
So, we are no longer using the old, traditional Bible anymore? Bible version 2.0? The original Bible was only written for those in Israel? So, everyone else in the world can ignore the commandments?

All 66 books of the Bible are the Bible. The law under the Old Testament was for Israel in their day. It showed that nobody had the power to keep the law, that we are all sinners, sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell. And only a perfect sinless Savior, none other than God Himself, could atone for our sins for forgiveness of sins, power over sin and self (co-death), and to give us a new life whosoever is willing. This is God's uncreated life, eternal life that fellow believers share in Christ.

Do we keep any commandments of the OT? Of course. We accept that God created perfectly Gen. 1.1. Verse 2 is true that God made desolate and waste due to the sin of the inhavitants of earth's earliest ages. And the 6 days sum up the period of restoration after God made desolate. We accept all 9 commandments. We don't keep the ceremonial commandment to keep the Sabbath, because this has been fulfilled in Christ now that the veil is rent with the rest of the Spirit in believers is all day every day, not just Saturday or Sunday.

Recall what I said about the Sabbath that the OT says it was specifically a sign of covenant for the nation of Israel as God's chosen nation who will one day be the center of all nations from where Christ will reign in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years befor the New City and New Earth starts. Israelites don't though receive th reward of reigning over the nations as kings and priests with Jesus with a a rod of iron. Only those who ovecome in Christ get to return with Him to reign over the nations for 1000 years.

reply to post by gavron


Yeshuah never ignored the Old Covenant. HE followed the Pass Over and everything with the exception of the sacrifices because HE knew that He was the ultimate sacrifice for all time. That tells me that we also should do the very same. HE was and IS our example.

Yeshuah was and is the fulfillment of the Old Testament in terms of our salvation. We are still called to adhere to the foundation which is how HE lived as well. Yeshuah knew the difference between what was man made and what was of HIS FATHER. HE did not adhere to man's laws or interpretations but only to HIS FATHER"S. We likewise are called to do the same while following the 10 commandments.

Originally posted by Egyptia
Yeshuah never ignored the Old Covenant. HE followed the Pass Over and everything with the exception of the sacrifices because HE knew that He was the ultimate sacrifice for all time. That tells me that we also should do the very same.

We should not kill people for not keeping the Sabbath. The fulfiment of the Sabbath is accomplished in Christ. Jesus was Himself killed for keeping the Sabbath by evil men who killed God's only begotten Son.

Originally posted by Parture
All 66 books of the Bible are the Bible. The law under the Old Testament was for Israel in their day.

ok...so which version of the Bible is for today? Since we can eliminate all the stuff about Israel which we don't care about. Which version of the Bible does not have all the killing of children, killing of those working on the Sabbath, etc etc??

Originally posted by gavron

Originally posted by Parture
All 66 books of the Bible are the Bible. The law under the Old Testament was for Israel in their day.

ok...so which version of the Bible is for today? Since we can eliminate all the stuff about Israel which we don't care about. Which version of the Bible does not have all the killing of children, killing of those working on the Sabbath, etc etc??

We shouldn't eliminate anything from the 39 books of the OT, since they all teach us the law that nobody could keep except Jesus who was sinless. We should learn where we came from and how things developed in God's redemptive design. All the major Bible versions agree Israel was the first nation God revealed Himself to.

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Originally posted by gavron

Originally posted by Parture
All 66 books of the Bible are the Bible. The law under the Old Testament was for Israel in their day.

ok...so which version of the Bible is for today? Since we can eliminate all the stuff about Israel which we don't care about. Which version of the Bible does not have all the killing of children, killing of those working on the Sabbath, etc etc??

All the major Bible versions which all contain the 66 books of the Bible agree we should keep all the OT to reflect upon how God dealt with Israel under the Old Covenant. Today we are under the New Covenant.

The question will arise what if some nation practiced child sacrifice again. Should they be destroyed like under the Old Covenant? I think what God is saying is that will never happen so no such action like under the OT would be needed.

Originally posted by Parture
We shouldn't eliminate anything from the 39 books of the OT, since they all teach us the law that nobody could keep except Jesus who was sinless.

Jesus was NOT sinless. Might want to brush up and read Matthew 12:1-6, Mark 2:23-28 and Luke 6:1-5.

Jesus harvested on the Sabbath, which was prohibited by God in Exodus 35:2.

He tries to justify in in Matthew 12:1-8, but the fact is, he sinned.

Originally posted by Parture
The question will arise what if some nation practiced child sacrifice again. Should they be destroyed like under the Old Covenant? I think what God is saying is that will never happen so no such action like under the OT would be needed.

Perhaps you should look at the actions in Syria today. Children are being murdered every day by gov't snipers.

Originally posted by gavron

Originally posted by Parture
We shouldn't eliminate anything from the 39 books of the OT, since they all teach us the law that nobody could keep except Jesus who was sinless.

Jesus was NOT sinless. Might want to brush up and read Matthew 12:1-6, Mark 2:23-28 and Luke 6:1-5.

Jesus harvested on the Sabbath, which was prohibited by God in Exodus 35:2.

He tries to justify in in Matthew 12:1-8, but the fact is, he sinned.

Where did Jesus sin in those verses you gave? You don't say.

Jesus didn't harvest on the Sabbath, but the OT allows for souls to eat by taking from the edges of the grain field.

Originally posted by gavron

Originally posted by Parture
The question will arise what if some nation practiced child sacrifice again. Should they be destroyed like under the Old Covenant? I think what God is saying is that will never happen so no such action like under the OT would be needed.

Perhaps you should look at the actions in Syria today. Children are being murdered every day by gov't snipers.

The governments of the world should enter Syria and dethrone their government, but not kill every last soul in Syria, because unlike ancient Canaan the people of Syria are fighting against their own evil government.

You're not too bright are you?

Originally posted by Parture
Where did Jesus sin in those verses you gave? You don't say.

Ummm, do you even have a Bible? I gave you the chapter and verse.

You're really not that bright are you?