The Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective

reply to post by windword

But Joseph and Nicodemus could?

Joseph who? And Nicodemus was a rich man, I'm sure he had a servant who did the wrapping. Jews are paranoid about strictly following the customs for Passover. That's the entire reason they asked for the body so it could be placed in the tomb before the beginning of Passover.

reply to post by windword

The disciples took off running for the hills, with their tales between their legs. They weren't anywhere near the tomb.

Right, they were in hiding at that time for their lives. Mary went back to get them when she found it empty and met the risen Lord.

reply to post by windword

Yeah right! He couldn't walk through the stone covering the tomb but he walked through walls?

That's your assumption, I already told you the significance of the folded tallit.

reply to post by windword

Also, Psalms is not a prophetic book.

The entire Bible is prophetic. Psalm 22 is written 1st person singular as Christ hung on the cross.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Also, Psalms is not a prophetic book.

The entire Bible is prophetic. Psalm 22 is written 1st person singular as Christ hung on the cross.

Psalms is almost entirely a hymn to Aten, an Egyptian god. The "Christ" hung on the tree was Osirus/Dionysus, in all probability.

The early Christians were painfully aware of such criticisms. How could Pagan myths which predated Christianity by hundreds of years have so much in common with the biography of the one and only savior Jesus? Desperate to come up with an explanation, the Church fathers resorted to one of the most absurd theories ever advanced. From the time of Justin Martyr in the second century onward, they declared that the Devil had plagiarized Christianity by anticipation in order to lead people astray! Knowing that the true Son of God was literally to come and walk the Earth, the Devil had copied the story of his life in advance of it happening and created the myths of Osiris-Dionysus.

The Church father Tertullian writes of the Devil's diabolical mimicry in creating the Mysteries of Mithras:

The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptizes his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine. www.answering-christianity.com...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

But Joseph and Nicodemus could?

Joseph who? And Nicodemus was a rich man, I'm sure he had a servant who did the wrapping. Jews are paranoid about strictly following the customs for Passover. That's the entire reason they asked for the body so it could be placed in the tomb before the beginning of Passover.

en.wikipedia.org...

Pilate, reassured by a centurion that the death had taken place, allowed Joseph's request. Joseph immediately purchased fine linen (Mark 15:46) and proceeded to Golgotha to take the body of Jesus down from the cross. There, assisted by Nicodemus, Joseph took the body and wrapped it in the fine linen and applied myrrh and aloes (these are substances which Nicodemus had brought, according to John 19:39). Jesus' body then was conveyed to the place that had been prepared for Joseph's own body, a man-made cave hewn from rock in the garden of his house nearby.

Joseph and Nicodemus brought 75 pounds of healing herbs. Myrrh is a healing agent.

In Mesopotamia and the Greco-Roman worlds, myrrh was a panacea for almost every human affliction, from earaches to hem­orrhoids. The Asians esteemed myrrh as an astringent tonic taken internally and as a cleansing agent applied externally.

Read more: www.herbcompanion.com...
A salve of myrrh used as an analgesic can assuage the discomfort of topical ulcerations.

So is aloe.

Aloe, a therapeutic healing plant, works both externally and internally. When used externally Aloe vera contains properties such as: astringent (causing a contraction of the skin, blood vessels, and other tissues stopping the fluid discharge), emollient (helps to soften and smooth the skin), antifungal (destroys fungi), and cell proliferant (quickly regrows new cells) used to heal wounds and burns.54

reply to post by windword


Ahhh, I thought you was talking about His step-father Joseph. He had died by that point.

And I'm no doctor, but I think His injuries required more than aloe and a 1st century version of Preparation H. Josephus record the instance of 3 men wrongly accused and had been hanging on the cross who were taken down and given the best medical care in the entire Empire and two of them later succumbed to their injuries and died.

reply to post by windword

Myrrh is a healing agent.

Any EMT's here? Does anyone know if they keep a big stockpile of myrrh on lifeline helicopters or in emergency room trauma centers?

reply to post by Iason321

The whole mel gibson version was based on the Biblical account,

uh, no. It wasn't. I looked at the reviews for that movie today (having finally figured out where you folks get this idea of him having been pretty much butchered before being strung/nailed up)....

I also figured out that if that movie is your reasoning for your wild claims of the absolute barbarity of his ordeal, and the 'medical doctor's assessment' of whether he died or not, you might need to be enlightened to some alternative 'stories'.

Is 'The Passion of the Christ' by Mel Gibson historically accurate?

Visions
Although 'The Passion' is based on the accounts of Jesus' trial and execution in the Biblical Gospels, some of the additional material comes from a book called 'The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ' by Anne Catherine Emmerich. Emmerich (1774-1824) was an Augustinian nun at the Convent of Agnetenberg, in Germany. She had many visions, and 'The Dolorous Passion' contains her visions of the sufferings of Christ.

If her visions were accepted as nothing more than imaginative reconstructions of what Christ's sufferings might have been like, there might not be a problem. But many people see them as revealing to us more information about the Life of Jesus Christ besides what we read of Him in the Bible. (A direct quotation from the Emmerich web site.)

There is a problem with this, in that it sets up another authority alongside the Bible - in this case, Emmerich's visions.

Comments on The Passion

We do not know what regulations, if any, existed in Roman Judaea. Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor who sentenced Jesus, would have had some latitude in devising and carrying out the punishment he decreed. While “flogging” and “beating” are attested in ancient sources, however, there are neither descriptions, pictorial representations, nor physical evidence for the brutal implement that is used at length and to such horrific effect in The Passion’s “scourging” scenes. Scourging as a practice is attested but the only weapon ever cited is a reed (Mark 15:19; Matt. 27:30). The Gospels are in fact quite terse in their rendition: “... after having Jesus scourged, he [Pilate] delivered Him over to be crucified” (Mark 15:15; cf. Matt. 27:26). Had Jesus been tortured in an exceptional manner (that is, had he been treated more harshly and differently than other crucifixion victims), this would presumably have been mentioned in the Gospels. The armed Jewish guards shown in the movie accompanying the high priests, who arrest and abuse Jesus, are pure fantasy (as are their costumes). The Romans would never have allowed the Jews to have their own army. Instead, the Gospels describe Jesus as being arrested by a “crowd of men with swords and clubs” (Mark 14: 43; Matt. 26:47, refers to a “great crowd”)

need more?

Even if The Passion adhered in every detail to the specific narratives of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) or the Gospel of John, it would be neither accurate nor fair to take these texts as “scripts” for the arrest, trial, and crucifixion of Jesus. That is because these texts were not written down at the time, nor were they written by actual witnesses of these events. Instead they were composed two generations later and hundreds of miles away: between 70 and 90 C.E., and outside of the area of the Levant.

Because the Gospel authors were writing for an audience who did not live at the time or in the place of the events they were narrating, they worked to put the events of Jesus’ trial and death within the larger historical context of his life and mission. In his own narrative choices,...

pay attention, now:

... however, Mel Gibson has chosen to ignore what the Gospel writers strove to supply.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Ahhh, I thought you was talking about His step-father Joseph.

You didn't realize it was Joseph of Arimathea??

Hmmmm.
Says something about your knowledge and credibility. Just sayin'....

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Ahhh, I thought you was talking about His step-father Joseph.

You didn't realize it was Joseph of Arimathea??

Hmmmm.
Says something about your knowledge and credibility. Just sayin'....

Wow, that's pretty rude Wild..

Sorry, I was pretty distracted last night watching the NFL draft.

Oh well.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Myrrh is a healing agent.

Any EMT's here? Does anyone know if they keep a big stockpile of myrrh on lifeline helicopters or in emergency room trauma centers?

Myrrh is kept in some of our antiseptics that we keep on our ambulances and EMT bags. It doesn't say "made with myrrh" on it, of course.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Wow, that's pretty rude Wild..
Sorry, I was pretty distracted last night watching the NFL draft.

Rude? How so??
The NFL draft takes precedence, I guess.....?? No need to be sorry.
Just seemed that you were either unaware, or not paying attention. No offense intended.

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by windword

 

Myrrh is a healing agent.

Any EMT's here? Does anyone know if they keep a big stockpile of myrrh on lifeline helicopters or in emergency room trauma centers?

Myrrh is kept in some of our antiseptics that we keep on our ambulances and EMT bags. It doesn't say "made with myrrh" on it, of course.

Is the antiseptic with Myrrh in it what you use to revive the dead at accident scenes? Seems like that would solve all the healthcare issues overnight.

We just need Myrrh correct?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Wow, that's pretty rude Wild..
Sorry, I was pretty distracted last night watching the NFL draft.

Rude? How so??
The NFL draft takes precedence, I guess.....?? No need to be sorry.
Just seemed that you were either unaware, or not paying attention. No offense intended.

NFL Draft happens once a year, I can sit here and argue with skeptics 365 days a year. Sorry for displaying my ignorance to the Bible and my complete lack of credibility.

I'll be sure to work on that.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Sorry for displaying my ignorance to the Bible and my complete lack of credibility.
I'll be sure to work on that.

No need to be snide and hostile, NuT. I simply assumed you knew of the deal that Nic and Joe made with Pilate. My bad.

Personally I couldn't care less about NFL draft picks (seems really irrelevant and superficial to me....but that's just me).

I know it's very important to some people, and I'm capable of respecting that. Hope you have a great time!

reply to post by wildtimes

No need to be snide and hostile,

That's what I was thinking when you mocked me a few posts up and basically said I was ignorant to scripture and had no credibility.

I know, I should turn the other cheek right?

Well, let me have it again on the other side, this time put a little stank on it will ya?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That's what I was thinking when you mocked me a few posts up and basically said I was ignorant to scripture and had no credibility.

Actually, I don't know that it's in your 'scripture'. The sources I have are from other sources.
I didn't mean to mock you!
Sorry. Just saying, there are more sources for the facts than what's in the version of truth you know and talk about....
if you are unaware of those sources, I was unaware of that.
Peace, and
Namaste

Cool, enough about me, this is about Jesus.

It takes only a slight shift of perspective, standing aside from theological dogma, to see the crucifixion in a new way. It's easy to see that Jesus survived.

There are so many details in the biblical stories that leave one wide open to believe that Jesus either faked his death, or his friends did it for him.

In any case, this realization throws emphasis on his life, rather than his death, on his teachings and his message, that we are all gods and the way is within.

He did not come to die for our sins, but to give us hope in our own salvation by following his methods and teachings. Sadly, they are mostly absent from the bible.