My 7 year old suspened for "sexual harassment"

reply to post by thegagefather

Right, so any child who's parents don't care enough to argue (because there are uncaring parents out there) is SOL, and we should just overlook the morons who "freaked out" because little kids were acting like little kids.

Sadly, that is the way things seem to have gone. Political correctness is a failed policy.

Left on our own much more as kids, it seems that my school days were much better than what current kids go through. We learned to pull together as a group. We looked after each other, and even former bullies reformed and became a part of the group.

reply to post by Furbs


I don't have her specific contract, nor do I have my old P&P from when I was a volunteer at a HS.

They are pretty boiler plate though, I signed the same P&P the teachers did.
That was if a student did something that warranted the parents being informed I was only allowed to contact them and tell them they needed to come in.
I wasn't even allowed to say what the child did save "disciplinary problems" or some other nondescript non combative term.
If questioned re what happened, I had to tell the parents that due to privacy concerns I have to defer to the principle for an explanation.

Technically speaking did I have a right to tell them anything from "the sky is purple" to "you are a horrible parent".
Yes, but technically and legally speaking I was no longer allowed to deviate from the P&P script.
I signed over my legal right to free speech and be bound by the P&P.
It was a value for value trade which the law allows.
I value my free speech, but I value being able to put on my resume that I have mentoring experience more.

We can actually sign over our "rights" as long as the contract is proper and doesn't harm us.

As for the prohibited speech.
I can only go based on the reaction of the OP, and he seemed genuinely stressed and distraught over the threat of CPS.
That made it, threatening speech and therefore not appropriate.
Does that still have to be proven in a court of law, yes.
It is my opinion that if the OP had pursued that, he could have at least gotten a reprimand placed in her file.
To me that was threatening speech, and in I had been in the OPs place I would have been threatened.
That's all the matters, legally speaking did the threat cause mental anguish.

That said, I wouldn't pursue legal action the country is too litigious.
I would be happy with an apology and a letter of reprimand in her file.
If I were the OP that is.

reply to post by Furbs

Yawn. Pretty tedious and uncompelling argument. One of us is citing actual experience, one of us is letting gangster movie quotes do our heavy lifting.

One of us is pointing to their own failure and demanding everyone else fail with them and the other is soundly rejecting failure as an option. Yawning seems appropriate for the one who demands everyone fail with him.

You seem to have me at a disadvantage. Could you direct me to where you got you information on the policies of this school district? Oh, that's right.. you don't know the rules either.. and are arguing from a position of ignorance yourself. This is a pointless pursuit until the policy is known.

This is your response to me telling you to stop reifying and show us these rules you claim exist? It is a typical failures response.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


This post of mine will be totally pointless to the discussion at hand.

Thank you for using "reifying", I had to look that word up and I'll count it as my new word for the day.

So new that my spell check says it's wrong even though it's in the dictionary.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Furbs

 

One of us is pointing to their own failure and demanding everyone else fail with them and the other is soundly rejecting failure as an option. Yawning seems appropriate for the one who demands everyone fail with him.

This argument is pointless.

The OP followed a calm, rational approach, was heard by the principal, and from what I can see, was more or less satisfied with the results, but yeah, next time he should bring a gun and shoot the place up, right? Because -that- makes sense.

This is your response to me telling you to stop reifying and show us these rules you claim exist? It is a typical failures response.

No, this was -clearly- my response to you telling me that the school district broke some rules. I asked for you to show me the rules YOU ARE CLAIMING that they broke. Which you can't.. because… you are ignorant of the rules, as am I, admittedly so.

reply to post by Furbs


So in your world, it is perfectly acceptable for teachers to go around threatening parents with government agencies? Wow, I feel sorry for your kids, if you have them....
With parents like that, who need enemies?

reply to post by Pigraphia


Actually, you did -not- sign your rights to free speech away. You signed a contract that stated if you used your rights, you could be held legally liable under a contract stipulated by you and another party (the school). This is a small but very important distinction.

I will agree with most of your points, though, and the underlying issue. The teacher was probably unwise to say what she said.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Furbs

 

So in your world, it is perfectly acceptable for teachers to go around threatening parents with government agencies? Wow, I feel sorry for your kids, if you have them....
With parents like that, who need enemies?

What a teacher says to me is my concern, not my child's. Why would my child need to know what a teacher said to me on the telephone? Why would that be any of my child's concern?

reply to post by Furbs


You're the one who expected people to agree with you that the system worked. Don't cry because you found disagreement, and I will not cry because your prosaic world view hinders you from correctly interpreting an analogy.

If the O.P. wants to be satisfied that his little boy has been suspended for five days for simply pulling up a little girls pair of pants, and is perfectly happy that this incident will "go down on his permanent record" as inappropriate behavior, this is the O.P.'s prerogative. If you want to call his satisfaction proof that the system works, expect to get plenty of disagreement.

Your pathetic attempt to deflect from your own inability to provide any copy of any "school handbook" you claim exists reveals much about the nature of failure.

ATS took away my ability to quote properly with ease, because it wasn't to their liking, despite having followed their laid-out guidelines.

Well, I'm lazy, and I have a right to my laziness.

In light of this - take note that the top half of my quote is from me and the bottom half is a response from poet1b

Right, so any child who's parents don't care enough to argue (because there are uncaring parents out there) is SOL, and we should just overlook the morons who "freaked out" because little kids were acting like little kids.





Sadly, that is the way things seem to have gone. Political correctness is a failed policy. Left on our own much more as kids, it seems that my school days were much better than what current kids go through. We learned to pull together as a group. We looked after each other, and even former bullies reformed and became a part of the group.

It's only that way when you accept it as inevitability. There is always a second choice, always. It sucks that the first to face a problem has to be the one to fight it - but rather than give in for the reason of convenience, one should seek the perspective of all of humanity and decide what to do based upon that.

"Sharing" is an idea lost to adults on a large scale.

That is what I would do, and that is what I have done - and before anyone goes on telling me that this isn't possible and that I'm some idealist preaching utopia..

When I said this is what I have done, I am not exagerating. I've been kicked out of two classes within my lifetime because I went to a dean and filed an official report with my name on it, telling the dean that a teacher is meeting goals far below expectation (or more bluntly, not meeting goals at all)... I was kicked out of both of those classes, and know what..? In the long term, I'm incredibly happy with myself. Because instead of bull****ing my way through school for a grade, I decided I was in school for education, not a number or letter or even a percentage. And because of this, I didn't waste time on a class which pulled me away from the others, in which I was actually learning. And each student in my program benefited from me having to drop, because I made it a POINT to tell them about said professor, until they memorized it. I wasn't overly obnoxious about it, but it was something I would briefly mention on a day to day basis until I was satisfied that they didn't just forget when they went home. Also, my overall gradepoint average was actually higher than expected, because I dropped the class before it could affect my grade.

Don't listen to what others tell you, do what you KNOW is right

Because this is YOUR life but there are billions of other people living, and you should do what YOU know is RIGHT - and NOT be swayed by the OPINION OF OTHERS. Because if they're giving you advice based upon fear and societal expectations, then they're living the life of a pawn, and trying to make you a pawn as well.

And RIGHT does not mean BEST FOR YOU. It means BEST FOR ALL.

reply to post by Furbs

Maybe you as a parent, would just shrug off a threat made against your kids by a teacher. As a legal guardian, I wouldn't take it at all. At the very least, I would contact the parent of all the other kids, and warn them that the teacher is a lunatic, and to be ready in case she tries and pull the same crap on them. Due diligence.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Agreed. Anyone who thinks the system as is does not need revision needs some mental revision.

reply to post by thegagefather


The easiest and the best way is to click the "Reply-to" link at the top of the post you are replying to, and minimize what you quote, so that readers can follow back to the original post.

It seems we are pretty much in agreement. Right now, we have a bad system only getting worse, and we need to fight for a better system.

This is much bigger than our school system, a very hard hitting symptom of the overall systemic failure that seems to be the current trend.

We have lost our perspective on common sense. IMO, a result of massive changes brought about by technological advancement that has reshaped our world, removing us from the natural arena of the struggle for survival, and placing us in this artificial world of our own creation, where the connection between actions and consequences have become very difficult to trace.

My reply-to button only works 20% of the time, same with quote.

And sometimes when I hit either of those 2 buttons or "edit" it deletes everything I've posted.

I would simply send in a lawyer to negotiate. Be sure to send in that is known for lawsuits, not negotiating.

When I was growing up can’t say things were better in the sense that fabricated wars/gender discrimination/separate water fountains for ‘white’/’colored’ were the norm…but tv had not taken over the homestead. Reading was still status quo, as was non fluoridated water, non gmo, vaccinations were minimal and the population was not medicated to the hilt. Meals were home cooked because drive-ins were an anomaly. We had fans with metal blades with the barest of a protection cage that would easily allow a hand to enter…but no rampant stories of amputated fingers or hands. Children played outside. Because we played outside learning to swim was considered prudent as was teaching the 'not swimming yet' to stay out of the water bc you might drown. For those reasons and others adults and children were forced to use common sense in their everyday lives.

That is not the case now however~

Imho op's son used common sense according to what he saw but in this day and age common sense is not recognized. It's treated like some alien creature that must be exterminated. Might want to explain that to him with lots of hugs

~is still a rose

reply to post by coop039


If it helps it sounds like you are trying very hard to be a good father.

I believe, as it was his first offense at violating school policy. and he likely did not have any understanding at the time of the incident that his behavior was anything less than honorable, that the school definitely over reacted in your case.

I personally would have fought against anything other than speaking to your child concerning the incident and informing you of the incident without it going on his permanent record (even though it is now listed as inappropriate behavior). You cannot expect a child to have the same knowledge as an adult, or the same thinking patterns, the point of raising a child is to teach them right from wrong, as things come up, and a school should be trying to help with the process since they have your child most of the day.

This method of teaching through discipline alone is incorrect, speaking to a child and explaining why the actions were wrong in the first place should be the first approach, and discipline only if that approach fails.

While I would never personally stand for such a decree on a permanent record for a first offense, I respect the decision you made, because you did what you felt was in the best interest of your child and your family. No one can fault that, even if we think we would have done differently.

I guess I just want you to know, the school was wrong in their approach, your son did something he did not know was wrong. As such, you may want to consider at a later date whether or not policies such as these can be changed within your school district, and whether or not you can help in some way to advocate for that change.

Pigraphia, your avatar freaks me out. What is that??

Originally posted by coop039

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
Pulling up a girl's pants for her is not an acceptable excuse.

Let's say I saw a girl with her thong showing in the back. Can I help pull her pants up? Can I help tuck the thong a little lower so it's not showing? What age is it okay to do so? At what age is it okay for a boy to help a girl with her pants without her permission??

The age doesn't matter. Adults need to be clear whats okay and what's not okay. This is a lesson learned.

The kid may have innocent intentions, but the lesson needs to be learned.

Would you have rather he lied to me? Not me. Im glad he told the truth. Should he have touched her? No. But he did not lie about it. Some of the posters must really think some kids are just horrible pyschopaths.

Yes lesson needs learned. I really hate people that comment on stuff when they may not have kids or that have kids and make it out like their kids never do anything wrong. ALL KIDS MAKE MISTAKES. If you have have kids and claim they never mess up, youre lying.

so it was verified to you by the school that the little girls pants were hanging down her butt exposing her underwear? how short was her shirt? all your son did was pull her pants up? and the school still got all in a huffy about it? did he do it in a rough way or something? maybe her parents just got all freaked out about it and went crazy on the teacher or did the teachers catch your son in the act and notify the girls parents. have you ever personally seen the girl looking like this? thats pretty sad that the girls parents let her look like that at 7 years old. well on the bright side at least he wont have a sexual harassment charge on his record.

Originally posted by Tresker
Pigraphia, your avatar freaks me out. What is that??

LOL!

I taught myself to whittle/carve as part of my physical therapy.
Shattered left arm with titanium plate, broken right.

It's the first skull I tired to whittle, at the request of a friend who loves skulls.

It's distorted a little because of the size restrictions.