Is homosexuality a sin?

Would it be a sin if had sex with my male dog K9.

Now that would be called "homo-bestiality."

2) Pope JP II says homosexuality is a sin and he knows what he's talking about

If anyone knows it's a sin, this dude should know! To be a sin, he sure does have a bunch of them working for him.

I've done managed to pour gas on the fire on a thread I posted a few weeks ago. I've got my beliefs and others got theirs, and I'll leave it at that.

I'm not saying anything else, except I believe it to be a sin. I'm not sinless, but I'm sinless from that one and other sins.

Now this will be the last thing I say, I'm outta here!!!

Originally posted by deeprivergal
I got this in an email forward, I wanted to get some feedback on what some of our board members thought about it. Peronally, I believe that homosexuality is a sin.

 

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. All scripture passages
aside, when it's all said and
done, sin is something you CHOOSE to do. I know of
no one, myself included, who chose
to be homosexual. I know of no one who chose to be
Bi-Sexual, or Lesbian or straight, for
that matter. It is what we are, and a part of who we
are.
It's not surprising that the Church would condemn homosexuality,
since, as a whole the church has a history of condemning sexuality in
and of itself. For example, The Church
says that it's a sin to have sex before marriage.
That's not biblical. Some churches say
you can't kiss passionately, or masturbate. That's
also not biblical. Some churches say
that you can't live with someone of the opposite
gender before you marry them. This
too isn't biblical.
The Church's condemnation of homosexuality is only
one link in a line of
condemnations regarding sexuality that the church
has taught as "truth". The real truth
of the matter is that it's a sin to teach that
you're sexuality is evil or sinful. It's a sin to
teach
that one sexuality is right and that any other kind
of sexuality is wrong. It's a sin for the
church or anyone else, for that matter, to shame you
because you desire sex, or
because you find it pleasurable. God created sex,
God designed your sexuality.
When someone, even a priest, a minister or a pastor,
condemns you for your sexuality,
they're automatically condemning God, because God
created your sexuality.
What about scripture ? Doesn't scripture agree with
church doctrine ?
Absolutely not ! Scripture has been pulled out of
context to make it appear to agree
with church doctrine. For example, the religious
right loves to quote Leviticus 18:22
"...You shall not lie with a male as with a woman.
It is an abomination. .."
First of all, when you present scripture to anyone,
you present more than just
one sentence. When you read the bible, you read the
whole paragraph, or the
whole chapter, if need be, to find out what's going
on and who's being spoken to.
For example, if we look at the same passage of
scripture, and start reading it at
the beginning, it says "The Lord spoke to Moses
saying " Speak to the children of
Israel, and say to them: I am the Lord your God.
According to the doings in
the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not
do; and according to the
doings in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing
you, you shall not do; nor
shall you walk in their ordinances. You shall
observe My judgments and keep
my ordinances to walk in them: I am the Lord your
God. You shall therefore keep
my statues and my judgments, which if a man does, he
shall live by them: I
am the Lord. ..." Following this, he gives the
Israelites the sexual code where
Leviticus 18:22 comes from. This puts a whole
different spin on Leviticus 18:22.

Egypt was a pagan culture, as was Canaan. God was
telling the Israelites,
"People, you left a pagan culture and you're going
to go to a pagan culture, but you
are NOT to act like a pagan culture. You are not to
copy their religious practices,
nor are you to follow their laws. Do as I tell you ,
and you will survive."
Leviticus 18:22 is talking about a pagan religious
rite. In fact, notice that
in that particular passage, God calls this practice
"an abomination". In Hebrew that word
is "towebah" (Tow-ay-bah) it means "idolatry" This "homosexuality" was
in fact a religious rite. This had nothing to do with
affection, or love. This was about
religious obligation, "duty to the GODS", that kind
of thing.
More importantly, if Leviticus is so important a
book to them, why don't
they follow the rest of the commands given there.
For example, in Leviticus 19:19 it
says that you shall not let you livestock breed with
another kind, or that you shall not
sow your field with mixed seed, or that you shall
not wear a garment of mixed linen and
wool. Leviticus 19:27 says that you shall not shave
around the sides of your beard
nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard. How
about the laws concerning
clean and unclean animals ? (Leviticus 11:24-47) How
about the forbidden foods
in Leviticus 11:1-23). These are thing that "the
religious right" never mentions,
and yet, they're part of our daily lives. For
example, just about everyone wears
clothes that are poly-cotton blend. Most people who
have beards, shave them a bit so
they look neat and presentable. Both in direct
violation of Leviticus. Also, how many
of them do you suppose like football? That too, is
in violation of scripture. The ball
is pigskin, which according to Leviticus, is unclean
to eat or to touch . My point here is
that you can't just piecemeal scripture that way.
You can't just obey one
part here and one part there and cut out the parts
you don't like. That doesn't work , but yet,
that's just they attempt to do when they pull
passages out of the Old Testament like that.
Another one they love to quote is 1 Corinthians 6:9,
which in some translations
of the bible actually uses the word "homosexuals".
That word in Greek, it turns out, is
"arsenokoites" which means, literally, "man-bed",
"man-couch", "man - chambering"
NOT "homosexual". Paul's history was that he was
very direct in what he said,
he didn't mince words. He was also a very
intelligent man, he spoke Aramaic and
Greek, he was able to write Greek as well. So with
that in mind, if he wanted to
write "homosexual" why wouldn't he have used the
word "homophilia" which means
homosexual ?
Bear in mind, also, that Corinth wasn't exactly a
"squeaky clean " town either.
Corinth had a reputation for being a town of drunks,
hookers (only, they called them
"Courtesans") and basically, corrupt people. Their
type of worship before Christ
was introduced to them was the worship of Aphrodite.
(believe me, they got pretty
lewd in their "worship practices of her") . It kind
of makes you think, that when Paul
was referring to "man-beds" he may have been
referring to the "courtesans"
(they had both male and female at that time).
Finally, if homosexuality really was a sin, it would
bear the fruits of sin. Jesus
tells us in Matthew 7:17-19 that a good tree bears
good fruit and a bad tree bears
bad fruit. In that case, what are the fruits of
homosexuality ? There really aren't, are there?
You can't say that A.I.D.S / H.I.V is a fruit of
homosexuality , because if it were, then
straight people wouldn't get it, neither would
children be born with it or die of it.

So, when people tell you that homosexuality is a
sin, don't believe it !

Men and women are designed for having babys - expanding the human existence.
A mans pensi (spelt deliberate) is designed for the womens virgian (again spelt deliberate) - and visa versa.

Therefore regardless of the written word, men and women are for each other - men & men are not designed to play together, likewise the same with women & women. - scientific fact im afraid. - hope ive answered ya question without entering the foggy areas of such a sore discussion topic.

Originally posted by deeprivergal
I got this in an email forward, I wanted to get some feedback on what some of our board members thought about it. Peronally, I believe that homosexuality is a sin.

Men and women are designed for having babys - expanding the human existence.
A mans pensi (spelt deliberate) is designed for the womens virgian (again spelt deliberate) - and visa versa.

Therefore regardless of the written word, men and women are for each other - men & men are not designed to play together, likewise the same with women & women. - scientific fact im afraid. - hope ive answered ya question without entering the foggy areas of such a sore discussion topic.

So, are you saying that every sexual encounter between 2 people MUST be for reproductive purposes, or else it is a sin? That anything other than "insert tab A into slot 1" style sex (i.e., oral sex) is a sin?

Do you abide by this conviction in your personal sex life? If so, all I can say is, "Boy, do I feel bad for you!!"

[edit on 3-10-2004 by jezebel]

Thinker...you obviously have some very serious problems, perhaps from your childhood, I don't know, but I would respectfully suggest seeking help. You also obviously have problems with females, and homosexuality....most likely, you, as a human being being, do engage in intimate relations with woman, at least on an occasion, meaning that though you have a dislike for females, you will when you need to still have relations with them....serious problems you have sir! Misfit is correct...you show, at least to this board, the MO (Modus Operandi) of a rapist....most rape is done to woman as a means of derogation, control and from a dislike of woman. Please....seek some type of help...I would also bet this is not the first time you have heard this from someone!

Well, I don't know if it's a sin or not......but......
there is a va-gina & I hope most of us know what that's for & then there's an A-nus & I shouldn't have to explain what that's for........should I?
Apparently I do......
You have a sphincter, which is a type of one way valve for excreting ones bio-waste (fecle matter) #
you getting the picture?
Aside from the obvious dangers of STD's & a generally unhealthy place to be putting ones pe-nis,pretty soon ones going to find that having your date-punched is going to lead to a weakening of the anorectal muscles causing involuntary control of ones bodily functions requiring surgury.
that should be obvious......a

Fact is, many of the 'Bible' laws are "Hygienic" laws, something we, 2000 years later seem to be forgetting.

Originally posted by Amadeus
You'll be pleased to know that there are 11% of the general population who considers themselves HOMOSEXUAL

I thought this percentage was debunked and that the true figure
is around 2%. I know Canada just did a survey on this and that's
the number they came up with. I'm going to do some googling and
see if I can find those articles. If I can, I'll be back with the figures.

Is Homosexuality a sin? It depends on who you ask.

According to Christian religion - Yes.
Any bible based religion has to have YES as an answer.
The bible is very clear on this.
That's why it's rather strange for the Episcopalians to
have ordained an openly gay (and unrepentant adulterer)
bishop. It goes against the foundation of their religion.

If you follow Native American religion - NO.
In fact, it was considered good luck for married men in
many of the Western tribes to have both a female wife
and a gay man 'wife'. The gay men were considered
special and therefore 'touched by God'. It was an honor
and good fortune to have someone 'touched by God' in
your household.

If I remember correctly - wiccans, pagans, and earth
religions do not consider homosexuality a sin. I'll leave
that to any resident practicioners of wicca, pagan religions,
and earth religions to state if their religion considers
homosexuality a sin.

Okay, I'm off to look up those homosexual stats ....
I'll be back if I can find them. They came out about
4-5 months ago.

For those who say homosexuality has been around since the bible. I say to them so has murder, stealing, peodofiles. So just because something has been around along time doesn't make it right. The only reason why people are so appecting of homosexuality it's because it's been taught in schools, hollywood western ideology has no morals. Thats it's weakness.

My issues, it's fact that majority of women prefer to date unethical men then ethical men. Have you ever heard the term Nice guys finish last? This proves that gentical women are born evil, since all follow the same patten of desires.
Seems that women in general have a fetish for bad behaviour.

True thinkers despise people that desire unethical behaviour.

can you consider sodomy and sex as the same thing?

Of course. There is sexual pleasure involved from both sides.

Look, it is not good to consider everything someone else says as a sin. You must filter the information. A sin is something that causes harm, right? sex causes no harm. So why is it a sin?

Originally posted by deeprivergal
Some churches say you can't ... masturbate. That's
also not biblical.

www.bible.com...

There is a quote in the old testament that the
Catholics use that is partly the reason why
birth control isn't allowed in the Catholic church.
Somewhere in the old testament (I'll have to
look it up) there is a line that a man 'spilled his seed'
uselessly on the ground and God slew him for his
evil sin.

I don't think Masterbation will send someone to hell,
but I am posting this in response to your statement
that the bible doesn't discuss Masterbation. It does
in that one line, and it also does in the areas of
lust, celebacy outside of marriage, etc etc.

I'll look and see if I can find that quote from the
old testament (unless a bible christian remembers
it and posts it before I do).

You people also got look at the function of male body. It's clear the designer didn't intend for penis to go up man's anus. He created the anus function as means to to take out waste.

No women women, should ever lye with each other. There is no point.
No man should lye with one another.

How many women have have commited bisexuality? becuase the media and society has started to push it? many, because of influence, not because they really want it. But they were influenced by the society.

Why is that it's ok to influence people to commit certain actions. But it's not ok to stay that those actions are wrong?

It's clear western ideology stands for

Homosexuality
Bisexuality
Lesbisiam
Paganism
hetrosexualiy ( Have heaps of sex and forget marriage)
Homosexuals marriages
Giiving away kids (adoption)

Who in the hell wants their children to grow up in this unethical influence?

Some stats on gay population -

The new norm - between 1-3% is gay or bisexual.

www.neopolitique.org...

www.familyresearchinst.org...

more coming ...



[edit on 10/3/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Thinker
It's clear western ideology stands for

Homosexuality
Bisexuality
Lesbisiam
Paganism
hetrosexualiy ( Have heaps of sex and forget marriage)
Homosexuals marriages
Giiving away kids (adoption)

Who in the hell wants their children to grow up in this unethical influence?

Being that you have, in spoken fashion, condemned the first 3 and next to last of those (that I have read from you), are you also now condemning Paganism?

Is there ANYTHING that you don't condemn?

Why is it that you speak these traits are of "Western Ideology"? These traits lie within any and most places in the world, it's just the West is outspoken about them.

Misfit

I'm back with the info I said I was going to look up.
(no, I don't believe in this, but I'm passing it on because
it was said that the bible doesn't speak about masterbation)

Bible and Masterbation - Masterbation and Fornication are the
'spilling of seed' without procreation purposes. This is where
the Catholic church gets part of it's stand on birth control =
Onanism. (Yes, Onanism, it's a real term, google it up)

Homosexual sex is also considered Onanism, the spilling of
seed without procreative purposes.
***************************************
Genesis 38 verse 9

"7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's [Er's] wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also."
****************************************

So - the Christian religion says that God never changes. He
is the same for all eternity. When he makes a law saying that
a sin is punishable by death, he certainly wouldn't change his
mind a few hundred years later and say ... nevermind, you can
now go commit Onanism and I don't mind and I won't punish
you with eternal death.

Masterbation, fornication, gay sex = onanism = sin punishable
by death according to the Christian religion.

Originally posted by masterp
A sin is something that causes harm, right?
sex causes no harm. So why is it a sin?

It depends on who you ask what exactly a sin is.
The Christian religion says a sin is breaking God's law.

Sex CAN cause harm - unwanted pregnancy which can
lead to abortion, adultary, fornication, onanism, breaking
up of families, added stress that can cause shortness in
other areas of life, etc.etc.

Some religions say that sins are things that 'cause harm'.
The Christian religion says sins are things that break
God's laws. According to the Christian religion, Sex outside
of marriage is breaking God's laws and therefore is a sin.

Originally posted by Thinker
My issues, it's fact that majority of women prefer to date unethical men then ethical men. Have you ever heard the term Nice guys finish last? This proves that gentical women are born evil, since all follow the same patten of desires.
Seems that women in general have a fetish for bad behaviour.

Your gross generalizations of women and homosexuals unfortunately speaks volumes about your own ignorance. You are making assumptions based on your personal experiences rather than any scientific basis.

Each individual is just that an individual and makes choices based on their own set of prejudices or values. It is not a one size fits all world and your values may be different from mine. If people spent more time judging their own behavior and less judging others - we'd all be better off.

Hey Flyers fan:

You claim the �god� of the �Christians� never changes, and once YHWH says something it�s forever, right?

Wrong!!!!!! Doih !!

Both the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTs of the �holy bible� are full of internally Contradictory material----try reading a little more carefully next time you open your so called Old Testament ( in English if that�s all you can read)

Then ask yourself, what about some of THESE internal inconsistencies placed into the mouth of the god Yahweh------(and these are only a FEW of them!)

l. �You will NOT make unto me any Molten Idos� as part of the so-called Ten Commandments of the socalled Torah placed into the mouth of YHWH the clan god of Israel.

Then in Numbers 21:5 it says, �YHWH said to Moses, Make thee a Bronze Serpent Idol and Place it on a Pole�� sounds pretty idolatrous to me

(cf: And Iesous said, �Just as Moses lifted up the Bronze Serpent on a pole, so shall the Son of Man be lifted up on that day..� in the gospel of John).

Same clan- god? Just mixed messages, right?

Maybe he just has a VERY bad memory�!

That, or his paleo Hebrew �aint up to scratch�, and he�s having trouble pronouncing all those gutturals again�..

Here�s some more junk placed into the mouth of YHWH, that crazy, forgetful clan god of the Chrstians and Jews:

2. �The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children�s teeth are set on edge:�: see: ISA 14:21 Thus saith YHWH, Slaughter all of his children for the niquity of their fathers; that they do not riseup to possess the land, nor fill the face of the land with towns.

DEUT 24:16 The fathers shall NEVER be put to death for the children, neither shall the children EVER be put to death for the fathers: but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Sounds a little CONTRADICTORY TO ME, don't you think?

3. YHWH created the world�.or formed it�or something, but he can�t seem to remember the order---maybe he was hung over (again) from all those drink offerings!

Here is the Order of Creation as it appears in the so-called Priestly Creation Myth #1 (P) text of the first chapter of Genesis (chapter 1:1 to 2:4a), from someone who wrote in the 6th century BC (he has a marked Ezekilite-Hebrew Accent---long after the time of �Moses��!)

Day 1: Sky, then the Earth, then, Light!!

Day 2: Water, both in waters below and waters above the Raqiak (�bowl�, �dome� �firmament�) : (Newsflash, there is NO DOME above a flat earth.)
Day 3: Plants & Vegetation (curious order !)
Day 4: The Sun, The Moon, then the stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepers (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time): Male AND Female created he them and HE CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM (see Gen 5:1=same Hezekilite writer from around 550 BC)
)
Day 7: Nothing (Elohim �rested� on the 7th day)

Note that there are "days", "evenings", and "mornings" before the �Sun� was even created.

NOW TAKE A VERY CLOSE LOOK AT THE SECOND Creation Myth in (Genesis chapter 2: verse 4b and following),

In this 2nd myth, the Yahwist writer , the god is called YHWH ELOHIM who is busy not creating with his mouth ("let there be") but has to form things out of pre-existing material as if with his bare hands....:

Here is the order of Myth #2

l. Earth then the heavens (then a mist appears to water the earth)
2. ADAM, the first man created BEFORE ANIMALS, PLANTS & WOMAN (on a desolate Earth)
3. Plants
4. Animals
5. The forming of Hayyah or �Eve� the first woman (from material taken from Adam�s side)


So which is it? Huh? Will the TRUE MYTH PLEASE STAND UP !!!

Were animals created BEFORE ADAM OR AFTER ADAM?

Wait a minute !!!

I thought you SAID THAT YHWH doesn�t contradict himself !!!

Well�?!!!

(Poor YHWH has so much trouble keeping all of his Hebrew account books in order�.�.so much to do..! Must not forget, must think clearly� one can almost hear him ! Maybe someone should go wake him up, he seems a little drowsy!!)

4. What about seeing YHWH face to face like a man with his friend?
WHICH IS IT, YES OR NO ? Well ???!!

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9

Yes, YHWH CAN be seen:

"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my rear end." (Ex. 33:23)

"And YHWH spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)

"For I have seen ELOHIM face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

No, YHWH CANNOT be seen:

"No man hath seen Theos at any time." (John 1:18)

"And YHWH said to Moses, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)

Even the writer of the Book of Proverbs, part of �the holy Bible� (!) cannot seem to remember what advice to give at times:

PRO 26:4 Do NOT answer a Fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Seems your "holy" book is full of contracdictory holes after all..and I only listed a few them from the OT which portrays creation and the nature of YHWH wholly inconsistently...I didn't even start in on the New Testament which is even worse !

Of course you have to read the text first, which is something you apparently haven't yet!!

You people also got look at the function of male body. It's clear the designer didn't intend for penis to go up man's anus. He created the anus function as means to to take out waste.

Your argument is really flawed. The penis and vaginna are also used for urination. That's liquid waste. Should we not procreate then?

Sex CAN cause harm - unwanted pregnancy

That's why condoms exist.

Some religions say that sins are things that 'cause harm'.
The Christian religion says sins are things that break
God's laws. According to the Christian religion, Sex outside
of marriage is breaking God's laws and therefore is a sin.

Why God says it is a sin, according to you? what is the logic behind sex being a sin, according to your opinion?

My issues, it's fact that majority of women prefer to date unethical men then ethical men.

Females pick the strongest males. That's a law of nature. Between the strongest human males are those that are considered arseholes by the rest of us nice guys. But we consider them arseholes because they show their strength on us.



[edit on 3-10-2004 by masterp]

You people also got look at the function of male body. It's clear the designer didn't intend for penis to go up man's anus. He created the anus function as means to to take out waste.

Originally posted by masterp
Your argument is really flawed. The penis and vaginna are also used for urination. That's liquid waste. Should we not procreate then?

that is too simplistic,First urine secretions don't normally contain any bacteria, Indeed the waste water is sterile & free of bacteria, viruses, and fungi.
urinating on open cut wounds has been practiced as a form of "Bush Medicine" for thousands of years, The A-nus & Va-gina are 2 types of bacterial locations with many incompatable bacterias & antibactiral antibodies which don't naturally cross over.

Sex CAN cause harm - unwanted pregnancy

Originally posted by masterp
That's why condoms exist.

[edit on 3-10-2004 by masterp]

Again that is far too simplistic, The vagina secretes its own lubrication, whereas the anus and rectum do not. The tissues in this area are particularly delicate and susceptible to tearing,there is also the risk that the Pe-nis may collide with the sigmoid colon, the lining of which is not much stronger than a wet paper tissue or towel, and trauma can result in internal bleeding with potentially fatal results therefore, artificial lubrication is highly recommended for anal sex .

For God's sake,with any forms of sexual activity,Common sense including simple,safe & Hygienic precautions should be undertaken first.

Homosexuality is definately a sin in my view.

Originally posted by Amadeus
Hey Flyers fan: You claim the �god� of the �Christians� never changes, and once YHWH says something it�s forever, right? Wrong!!!!!! Doih !!

Both the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTs of the �holy bible� are full of internally Contradictory material----try reading a little more carefully next time you open your so called Old Testament ( in English if that�s all you can read)

Hey Amadeus - You said that I said - the 'god' of the 'christians' never
change. WRONG. I said that the Christians believe that the Christian
God never changes. I never said that was what I believed.

So to throw your obnoxious quote right back at ya' - try reading a little
more carefully next time.

A person said that masterbation isn't mentioned in the bible. I found
where it actually is and posted it. I also said that I don't believe that
masterbation is a sin, although the christian bible says so.

I found the contradictions that you listed to be interesting, but your
opening obnoxious comments to be distracting from what could have
been an interesting post for me.

[edit on 10/3/2004 by FlyersFan]