Is it Time to Ban Vaccines Once and For All?

Originally posted by TZela
But when people are sending their kids to schools and daycare without vaccinations that is sending us down a dangerous path that we don't have to be on.

Then either a. don't send them to the particular school or daycare that allows these children, or b. find a new one. If your retort is well such and such is mandatory, then you have to deal with the existence of sharing space with conflicting view-points and adapt.

I will not conform to someone's opinions simply because they are scared. That's not my problem. That's between you and your conscience.

not good if you don't vaccinate your child in school that is not good for anyone or anybody. Because they could bring back things from the past. That we have rid of.

Enjoy your polio and tetanus.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
Enjoy your polio and tetanus.

Polio and tetanus gave me the immune system of Captain America.

reply to post by Rubinstein


Vaccines help some people but hurt others with good immune systems. I personally get real sick from flue shots and so does one daughter and her kids. People who possess a quick immune system have problems with putting these vaccines in the body.

My other daughter has a different mother, my present wife, who has some English in her. Both my wife and daughter can take flue shots without getting a reaction similar to an extreme flue. Our body's response is what creates most of the flue symptoms. If we don't have symptoms we can still be sick and not know it till the effects are irreversible. I'm still up in the air about what the doctors are perceiving is going on with these vaccines. I'm not sure they really have a clue of reality.

Fact: My kids had their vaccines at birth, and we have not needed to go to the doctor once for anything other than a regular checkup.

Fact: My coworker's wife is one of you nut cases, who refused to let the hospital administer these vaccines. Their children are constantly sick.

Can you guess why we are seeing random outbreaks of old diseases like measles? Is it because the vaccines arent doing their job?
NO!! Its because moron parents dont allow your children to be vaccinated.

But wait, those diseases and pandemics have been long since eradicated, right? Disallow your children from having vaccines, and see what happens. If it goes bad wrong, its 100% on you. Just dont get mad at me because I wont let my little Johnny play with you little Suzy, cause her parents are morons...

Gimme a break people!

Perhaps there may be some trace of a connection between a vaccine and something like diabetes.
1. Has it been 100% Proven?
2. Would you rather have Diabetes, or the Bubonic Plague?

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by Rubinstein
Is banning them too much? Too extreme?

Yes. I generally oppose most vaccinations [for me], but there is no quantitative difference between banning vaccination and mandatory vaccination.

Both are equally nonsense because both are extreme. If someone wishes to be vaccinated, good for them. If someone wishes not to be vaccinated, good for them too.

I see where you coming from imherejusttoread, you do have a point. If we banned vaccines for the under 18's, this would be fairer too. That way a young 18yo adult is mature enough to research the risks involved themselves.

Vaccinating babies and children is clearly wrong, unless they are immunocompromised

reply to post by Rubinstein


Just wondering, if history were changed to never having mass vaccination programs what do you believe the outcome would have been in the United States? Do you agree or disagree that overall more deaths and disability due to diseases such as polio, smallpox, measles, etc. would have occurred versus death and disability due to vaccines? I am over fifty years old, was vaccinated in childhood, and have suffered no ill effects and am thankful for the advances in medicine. I do not personally know anyone who had adverse effects from a vaccine, but quite the contrary I do know that family members and an uncle of my husband suffered permanent disability from polio.

If we stopped vaccinating, how long, in your opinion will it be before the diseases make a comeback in the United States. Do you want this to occur?

Gotta love Penn and Teller. (Did not see someone else post this.)

Most interesting, is how they go about explaining the ingredients. Most conspiracies regarding vaccinations include misrepresenting certain ingredients are in there, or the effect they'll have at only such a low dose.

Rational Wiki, for some reading on the subject as well.

Conspiracies are healthy, questioning inevitably leads to learning. However, some, like this one, are dangerous. When misinformation is believed over credible facts, and people change their actions negatively(withholding vaccines from themselves, or their children, in this case), it becomes time to get serious and realize the stupidity.

It was improved nutrition and sanitation that helped out humanity, and then not long after that mass vaccination programs came along and tried to take credit. Those illnesses you mentioned wouldn't be killing people, as long as we were all well nourished. It's a myth that's been propagated to make money; vaccines are a $Billion industry.

You will know people who have been damaged or killed by vaccines, but it won't have been officially traced to the vaccine. If you know people will Cancer, that has often come from a vaccine. Muscle Wasting diseases, MS, Diabetes Type 1, Asthma, Eczema. Even if it were that vaccines were saving us from other illnesses, it would just be a trade. Go to any Special school and you'll see what vaccines have done for us

Originally posted by TZela
reply to post by Rubinstein

 

Just wondering, if history were changed to never having mass vaccination programs what do you believe the outcome would have been in the United States? Do you agree or disagree that overall more deaths and disability due to diseases such as polio, smallpox, measles, etc. would have occurred versus death and disability due to vaccines? I am over fifty years old, was vaccinated in childhood, and have suffered no ill effects and am thankful for the advances in medicine. I do not personally know anyone who had adverse effects from a vaccine, but quite the contrary I do know that family members and an uncle of my husband suffered permanent disability from polio.

If we stopped vaccinating, how long, in your opinion will it be before the diseases make a comeback in the United States. Do you want this to occur?

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
Enjoy your polio and tetanus.

Polio and tetanus gave me the immune system of Captain America.

Good for you. It kills or disables many of its victims.

I'm slightly confused. Has anyone considered that the reason Government's might want to push vaccines is that it prevents individuals from developing debilitating illnesses and incurring massive healthcare costs on that basis?

Can you not see why Government's might want to keep their pennies in the pockets - a vaccination is a lot cheaper than long-term rehabilitation, including physical therapy, braces, corrective shoes and, in some cases, orthopedic surgery?

Or does that make too much sense?

Vaccines may not be 100% effective and may indeed have side effects - but I would rather take my chances of a vaccine than be completely irrational and expose myself to the risk of diseases that until recently have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of people each year.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


Penn and Teller use false data to prove their points, they are shills who have been paid big money to make this. What you have to keep in mind is that vaccine damage is not properly tracked, we would need to be tracking at least 60 days after vaccine administration to be able to see what's really going on. They don't track this as tracking vaccine damage loses money by scaring people off and creating compensation claims.

It's far better for Big Pharma to say "Cot death is a Big Mystery" or "Cancer, we need fundraising to help us, we're scratching our heads here"..."Autism is Genetic" (what they mean is that it's genetic that if some certain people are vaccinated they go autistic; they are economical with the truth)

"Everyone should know that most cancer research is largely a fraud and that the major cancer research organisations are derelict in their duties to the people who support them."

Linus Pauling PhD (Two-time Nobel Prize winner).

so what about all the people that have been vaccinated and have never had any problems? Didn't think that far ahead did ya? As one other poster said just because you're a delusional d-bag that means a life saving vaccince should be eliminated? show me one piece of scientific evidence that vaccines cause any of the problems you claim..from real scientist not a buncha arm-chair wannabes..

reply to post by Rubinstein


So you are saying that during the polio outbreak in the U.S. the people who were affected by it were malnourished and living in squalor? I know that was not the case. The uncle in our family lived in a small town, would have been eating food with much less pesticides, and was known to be in good health prior to getting polio.

I am not discrediting all of your research, I just don't believe that it justifies compromising the majority. I don't believe our nutrition is optimal these days. Every one of those conditions you talk about, such as cancer, I believe is far more linked to chemicals and hormones in food and carcinogens such as with cigarette smoking.

If governments wanted to save money, they could be making their own vaccines for a lot cheaper. Look into the price of vaccines, you'll see it's a big rip off.

The people behind vaccines are incredible powerful, it's the Globalist Bankers, they put a lot of pressure on countries to be vaccinating their children. The Bankers are not good guys though, so what's really going on, we should all hear alarm bells ringing when a known evil appears to be doing something nice.

One day Bush attacks a country, then next day he sends vaccines to another. Does Bush suffer from Schizophrenia, or is it that we have been lied to about the true purpose of vaccines?

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
I'm slightly confused. Has anyone considered that the reason Government's might want to push vaccines is that it prevents individuals from developing debilitating illnesses and incurring massive healthcare costs on that basis?

Can you not see why Government's might want to keep their pennies in the pockets - a vaccination is a lot cheaper than long-term rehabilitation, including physical therapy, braces, corrective shoes and, in some cases, orthopedic surgery?

Or does that make too much sense?

Vaccines may not be 100% effective and may indeed have side effects - but I would rather take my chances of a vaccine than be completely irrational and expose myself to the risk of diseases that until recently have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of people each year.

Alkesh,

We don't find what we don't look for. You will known many people who died from vaccine damage, but most likely you will believe they died from a natural cause. The majority of vaccine damage is not official

Here's one piece of scientific evidence for you to take a look at www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Association between type 1 diabetes and Hib vaccine
"The rise in diabetes, just one potential adverse effect, exceeds the benefit of the vaccine, which has been estimated to prevent seven deaths and 7-26 cases of severe disability per 100 000 children immunised. Even the difference in cases of diabetes between the groups receiving four doses and one dose exceeds the mean expected benefit. Temporal changes in the incidence of diabetes do not explain the differences since there were an extra 31 cases of type 1 diabetes per 100 000 children aged 5-10, and the incidence of diabetes in this group had been stable for about 10 years before this. Furthermore, sharp rises in diabetes have been recorded in the United States and the United Kingdom after the introduction of the haemophilus vaccine."

Originally posted by alkesh
so what about all the people that have been vaccinated and have never had any problems? Didn't think that far ahead did ya? As one other poster said just because you're a delusional d-bag that means a life saving vaccince should be eliminated? show me one piece of scientific evidence that vaccines cause any of the problems you claim..from real scientist not a buncha arm-chair wannabes..

edit on 24-4-2012 by alkesh because: (no reason given)

That is an excellent table NuclearPaul, thanks for sharing

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

Well, another member posted this a while back about vaccines and autism. Of course I don't know how accurate it is, but I guess people can look into that themselves if they want to.

reply to post by Rubinstein



I understand that there are some who believe that capitalism and vaccines are somehow related. I fully comprehend the argument of inoculating the young at an early age to become dependent on "Big Pharma" for the rest of their lives, but again, a healthy person afflicted with the occasional flu virus or random bacterial infection yields more net pay in a lifetime to the government/ pharmaceutical corporation than any person severely disabled by an easily preventable disease. The thought that higher powers knowingly place secret ingredients in vaccines to elicit lifetime sickness is so unlikely and would incur higher costs just to take care of them as opposed to healthy people working, keeping society in order. People can buy vaccinations, study it for themselves or read the labels to understand what is really inside instead of assuming that many problems afflicting human life is solely caused by vaccinations. I think the problem lies in the fact that a place such as the U.S has had a long history with non-universal healthcare, that many people assume other countries face the exact same capitalist pressures. In countries with a universal healthcare, the health industry is monitored and payed for by the government. The government does not like sick people because it costs them money. We are vaccinated against the most dangerous viruses/ bacterial infections because the government needs to keep its assets viable (people) in order to sustain its existence.

Side note; I absolutely cannot stand people who cherry pick the one doctor/ journal/ news report/ video which they say proves the anti vaccination movement. A few heads does not represent the entire scientific community. There is a homeless man who panhandles near a coffee shop saying the coffee is subpar, so should I believe him?

There is one journal posted earlier in the thread about an HiB vaccine, dated around 1999, which talks about the vaccine raising diabetes incidents. It takes years of study post inception to know longterm effects of any medicinal product, but even so, there exists another paper below the journal which statistically proves the case number insignificance.

Originally posted by Rubinstein
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

Penn and Teller use false data to prove their points, they are shills who have been paid big money to make this. What you have to keep in mind is that vaccine damage is not properly tracked, we would need to be tracking at least 60 days after vaccine administration to be able to see what's really going on. They don't track this as tracking vaccine damage loses money by scaring people off and creating compensation claims.

It's far better for Big Pharma to say "Cot death is a Big Mystery" or "Cancer, we need fundraising to help us, we're scratching our heads here"..."Autism is Genetic" (what they mean is that it's genetic that if some certain people are vaccinated they go autistic; they are economical with the truth)

"Everyone should know that most cancer research is largely a fraud and that the major cancer research organisations are derelict in their duties to the people who support them."

Linus Pauling PhD (Two-time Nobel Prize winner).

Demonstrate that they are shills, show* evidence of some ulterior motive. Don't just say they are. You can't argue via assertion. Also, if they use false data, it'd be easy to provide evidence backing that up.

It's completely pointless to just assert people as being unreliable sources. Or to accuse people who openly support questioning and distrusting authorities(Though Rationally), including government, as being Shills.