Revealed - The TRUE Biblical Geneology

reply to post by Iason321


no its right. pre-flood there was a different climate, (higher oxygen content, more shielding from UV rays, etc.)., which enabled humans to live longer. (faster healing, slower metabolism, etc.)

Does that help, Iason?

10-12 million years ago is longer ago than current thinking/theory.

Your premise makes good sense to me, that the individuals named in Gen represent 'tribes' or 'races' or 'civilizations'. One of the fail-points for me has always been the absurdly long time these guys were supposed to have lived, and the only way I can even begin to grasp it is by using the "Ancient Aliens" theory.

One of the problems with our modern efforts to decipher the true history from the mythology is, in my opinion, that we are far, far more sophisticated and 'worldly'....people back then did not know about the entire globe, and even if they knew of other cultures, The Bible was written for the Jews, and Jesus was a teacher and messiah for the lost tribes of Israel only.

Yaweh was their personal, tribal god. They were Yahweh's chosen people. Other tribes had other gods, and in doing trade the varous tribes accepted other tribal gods as well. That's why Yahweh would have said "no other gods before me"...there were 'other gods' to choose from. Now, not so much.

At Mecca there were dozens of shrines that represented ALL the various gods of the people that traded together in the Middle East.

Jesus did not speak about the entire world's population. It's due to Paul that Christianity became more widespread. There were small sects from the get-go, but his mission was a political and ambitious one.

Perhaps the Bible is meant only for the Jews, and their descendants.

I don't know. I'm not a Bible scholar, but I am something of a general theology student. Very amateur, but I've read enough to consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about the history of religion on the whole...

reply to post by DISRAELI


The more I study the more that seems to be the case.

All I know is Genesis 5 is giving geneology not of single men or women, but of plural groups of men and women.

The metaphors/stories in the previous chapters are just giving a "dumbed down" version of what happened, it's literally like story time from God, haha.

Allegory is beautiful, and Genesis is an allegorical MASTERPIECE!

Especially the first 6-10 chapters of it......after the first 10 chapters it switches to a more literal explanation and literal stories.....although there is still tons of metaphor and allegory used throughout the entire book, the first 6 chapters especially are the most heavily shrouded in it, and the next 6 are very allegorical, and the final 40 or so are less allegorical more literal, but still very metaphorical......

Reading Genesis with a literal single adam and eve makes absolutely 0 sense if you're reading it in its true form (from the Masoretic text).....

Everything is clicking for me the more I'm studying.....I've been researching Genesis explanations and Theistic evolution / OEC / YEC for over a year now, and yesterday I had some serious "ah-ha!" moments.......

EDIT: From wiki:
The New Testament contains an allegorical interpretation of a passage in Genesis. In Galatians 4:21-31 KJV, Paul treats the Genesis story of the sons of Abraham as an allegory.[11]

Other New Testament writers took a similar approach to the Jewish Bible. The Gospel of Matthew reinterprets a number of passages. Where the prophet Hosea has God say of Israel, "Out of Egypt I called my son," (Hosea 11:1 KJV), Matthew interprets the phrase as a reference to Jesus. Likewise, Isaiah's promise of a child as a sign to King Ahaz (Isaiah 7:14 KJV) is understood by Matthew to refer to Jesus. The writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews saw symbolism in the rituals of ancient Israel, foreshadowing events in the life and death of Jesus.[citation needed]

Later Christians followed their example. Irenaeus of Lyons, in his work Against Heresies from the middle of the 2nd century, saw the story of Adam, Eve and the serpent pointing to the death of Jesus:

Now in this same day that they did eat, in that also did they die. But according to the cycle and progress of the days, after which one is termed first, another second, and another third, if anybody seeks diligently to learn upon what day out of the seven it was that Adam died, he will find it by examining the dispensation of the Lord. For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, 'In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death.' The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death.[12]

In the 3rd century, Origen and others of the Alexandrian school claimed that the Bible's true meaning could be found only by reading it allegorically.[13] Origen explained in De Principiis that sometimes spiritual teachings could be gleaned from historical events, and sometimes the lessons could only be taught through stories that, taken literally, would "seem incapable of containing truth.

reply to post by wildtimes


Yes, that does help actually!

And read my OP again WT! If you read it carefully, you'll see it's not saying any individual humans lived for ong periods of time - it's just saying those specific "breeds" of humans roamed the earth for those periods.....but you also have to remember when trying to decypher the time periods written in the Bible, that to God a "day" is an "age" or even a thousand years.....there are several verses in the Bible saying a day is like a thousand years to God......

People thinking the earth is 6k years old is, quite frankly, downsizing YHVH God, he is a LIMITLESS and ETERNAL God, so WHAT if the Universe is 15+ billion years old and our earth is 4.5 billion years old?

Do you doubt that a thousand years is really but a day in Gods eyes? Or even less? I mean, thinking of God, heck, a BILLION years is like a second to him right? Since he sees the end from the beginning?

I am just trying to bring Biblical Theology and my fellow ATS Christians up to speed with modern scientific thought, so we don't get shunned by the community at large......if we're trying to win hearts to Christ, we're not gonna do it by telling them evolution is a lie, because that's simply not true.

Evolution is science and it cannot be disputed just as we cannot dispute our earth is round and we cannot dispute unicorns do not exist and we cannot dispute gravity exists.......The evidence for evolution and for the age of the earth/universe is absolutely VAST! WAAAAY too much for me to deny and chalk off to "deceived" scientists......

Not that most secular scientists aren't deceived (because they believe that since Evolutoin is true, the Bible isn't), but, i think you get what I'm trying to say......

Amen then

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Iason321..so I'm proposing the theory that the Adam and Eve and the early ancestors were the Hominidae and Homininae who evolved into the current Human Beings......

And the "tree of knowledge" has something to do with the emergence of human consciousness and the possibility of making conscious decisions and moral choices, including bad ones?

Hey DISRAELI

Surely I would suppose that Adam was already knowlegeable, being made in God's image?

I don't believe God desired to keep his Opus of Creation ignorant.

In my understanding, the Tree was referred to as "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil"

Human conciousness would have been acheived at the moment of man's creation, including concious decision making....thus God giving man a choice to partake or not partake of the knowledge of good and evil.

Seemingly, mankind was only "ignorant" at that point insomuch as whether his choices were "good" or "evil".

Possibly upon making the choice to partake of said knowledge, the notion of "morality" then came into play?

I also surmise that God most likely did not intend to keep said knowledge from mankind, rather only intended for mankind to reach a further point in his development, or spiritual evolution, if you will, before revealing this kind of information that man was not fully prepared for?
Therefore, not only disobeying God but also putting trust in himself and his own abilities, rather than God who created him.
Food for thought....

reply to post by Iason321

OEC / YEC....

Can someone help me out with the achronyms please?
Others I have also seen but don't understand their meaning:
GWT , JOSC (or something like that..referring to the judgment)

The Bible translation achronyms I understand (e.g. KJV, NIV, etc)....
and the Q and P texts, also.

but OEC/ YEC, GWT, JOSC ?

reply to post by Iason321

And read my OP again WT! If you read it carefully, you'll see it's not saying any individual humans lived for ong periods of time - it's just saying those specific "breeds" of humans roamed the earth for those periods.....but you also have to remember when trying to decypher the time periods written in the Bible, that to God a "day" is an "age" or even a thousand years.....there are several verses in the Bible saying a day is like a thousand years to God......

I did read it carefully, and also have read the rest of the posts on all the pages...

I said I agree that the 'individuals' are representatives of entire tribes or races.

And fwiw, I commend your effort to get the proselytizers up to speed with scientific theory.

I presume you know about the Ancient Aliens theory; does it seem plausible to you?

reply to post by stupid girl

Consider this possible angle;
My take on "knowledge of good and evil" is that it could be a Hebraism for "distinguishing between good and evil", knowing what belongs in which category.
In other words, it stands for the act of deciding for oneself what is morally good and bad.
Which means making that assessment independently of God.
But then the following history shows how much the independent moral decision-making of mankind tends towards making wrong decisions. Hence the growth of "violence", symbolised by Cain.
And evolutionary theory suggests the same thing; one of the effects of human consciousness is humans fighting each other.

reply to post by wildtimes


OEC and YEC reference the other types of Creationism....

Creationism is broken into a few different views-

YEC - Young Earth Creationism - the stance of Conservative / Fundamentalist Christians, posits the earth is 6-10k years old, and Genesis and the Bible is meant to be interpreted in a literal way

OEC - Old Earth Creationism - the stance that YHVH GOD is Creator and earth is 4.54 billion years old as science tells us, but taht Genesis should still be interpreted in a pretty literal manner - a single Adam and Eve

Theistic Evolution - my stance and the emerging stance of Christians - the belief that everything science tells us corroborates and correlates with the correct interpretation of Genesis, and that Genesis and the Bible go hand in hand with modern thought, and that science and the Bible compliment each other, rather than contradict


I'm not 100% on the other two acronyms you questioned

reply to post by wildtimes


I am familiar with the ancient astronauts theory, and my belief is that those ancient astronauts or "gods" or whatever yo uwant to call them, were celestial beings visiting primitve man, and I believe the Bible refers to them as "nephilim" or "fallen angels" or "men of renown" or "masters",

New age people call them the "ascended masters", I prefer to call them "descended masters"

reply to post by Iason321


Props for putting it out there and for handling the flow of closed minded,but curoius people who are offended by what you say with calm and respect.

This thread is all over the place, which feels to me as a deliberate attempt to knock you off track.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
This gets really crazy, but when you're dealing with Plank's length anything smaller than that micro-threshold instantaneously is everywhere in the universe simultaneously. The particle looses locality.

the Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Formation, by Abraham [Gra]) Says:

"1:7 Ten Sefirot of Nothingness
Thier end is imbedded in their beginning
And their beginning in their end
Like a flame to a burning coal
But the Master is singular
He has no second
And before One, what do you count?"

This talks about the idea of cause and effect(physical reality) and how God is OUTSIDE of cause and effect, we can't say that god is the cause because the effect would be his 'second'.

At "gods level" there is no seperation ie non-local. This is further emphasized by likening God to the zero point "Before One, what do you count?


I have to run here but some good reading for those interested

Sefer yetzirah by Aryeh Kaplan

The Bahir by Kaplan

The wisdom of the Hebrew Alphabet Michale Munk.


Bottom line is that if you are reading an english version of the bible or even torah, you are only getting the tip of the tip of the iceberg. If your christian, your probably missing out on the Talmud the Zohar and the Midrashic texts, they are the essential back logs to the torah.

Thing is though, most Christians, wouldn't want to hear about it anyway. They can't fathom how the devil could be a SERVANT of god, and give even less consideration to how an omnipotent being has an 'enemy' let alone one that is a threat.

Their heads really spin when you ask them to show where Jesus SAYS that he was the son of God,(and no, 'My father' does NOT count) but he never did cause he wasn't. The way the truth and the light, only through me, means follow my way, you will see the truth and find the light, not I'll die so you can be saved.....

Understand with Wisdom, Be Wise in Understanding

for it is written:
"Lord Jehovah in his wisdom laid the foundations of the Earth and the Heavens were established by his understanding; And in his knowledge the depths were broken up and the clouds sprinkle dew." Proverbs3:19-20

What does Wisdom Understanding and Knowledge mean?(wink, wink search nudge)

My point and its relation to this thread: There is much more to the story than a literal English translation will ever provide, its not a theory that your missing vital information, it's FACT.

If you are ignorant of the differences in the traditions then how can you make an honest opinion about it? Things like this genealogy are shocking and often a affront to Traditional Christians and they reject it without knowing it.
This is the reason that until very recently in history, many of these traditions and information was not mainstream.

Open your mind and you heart and find that there is nothing not worth learning, and that everything happens for a reason, even finding out Adam wasn't God's son, but the Devils.

Iason have you read the Urantia book? It gives an interesting history concerning the "Primal races".

reply to post by Iason321


I started reading this thread this morning and I do find the concept that "man" wrote or rewrote the Bible for the purposes of mass control and obfuscation as both a rational and plausible scenario. You might want to look at The Chronicles Project as they seem to be trying to translate the original text using a rather unique methodology. They also appear to be having some success.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by Iason321


Thank you for such as well thought out theory. I happen to agree with you almost completely, but I wasn't sure how to explain it as you did. In a much simpler way, when asked, I explain it this way:

Do you believe in evolution?

Yes, 100%.

Do you believe in creationism?

Yes, 100%

Evolution is God's work. Evolution was used by God in the creation of man and animal. I don't care if anyone else follows my thoughts on this or not. Religion is a wonderful thing because it really provides a wide freedom of belief and faith, unless you are hampered and chained down by the narrow views forced by organized religion, which I think God is quite disappointed with today.

OP I was just showing a friend these videos last night and said to her that If I were in control of what knowledge was given to the human race IN SCHOOL I would have a class implemented called "Spirit Science". Its crucial in every day living in my opinion. Physically and emotionally if humans were taught that there is a "Science" that involves the spirit we would be so far advanced its not even funny.

Also, reading the Bible is something each mind has to either accept, deny, dissect. I chose to dissect it.

In doing so, I began to research, going as far back before Jesus in human history. I know I haven't grasped it all to the T so I wont say I know for certain but for me the understanding I have is a peaceful understanding.

The main reason I think one may want to read the Bible several times in the "Spirit" of discernment whereas you ask for knowledge to be given...Ya know.. "Ask and you will receive" is not just a saying... its real. Try it and await... that is the proof. If you are always asking you are constantly experiencing proof. When reading the Bible I would suggest reading the book as a whole. Front to back several times and not worry about the details. I think you will connect with a language other than the physical letters you see. You will begin to feel another language..one that speaks the Science to you through the experience of Spirit. Expand from the Bible sure by all means but at the same time don't think just because it was written by men that God didn't have a back up plan,...

Satan in the Bible is not a being. Satan is darkness (void) and everything that comes along with it. God is Light and everything that comes along with it. Expanding from the Bible and just learning everything you can about light and darkness (in every aspect) will set another realm in your language all together. In your heart too. You will feel lighter.

Reading the Bible in modern English is waaaaay different than reading it with your spirit. Your mind has to be opened to all possibilities without restriction.

Anyway, Spirit Science videos are awesome for expanding the mind over to a possible Creator whom is in my opinion the "Light of My Life!

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by windword

 

It comes from the God who directed it all.

This entire experiment, from beginning to end, and he's been communicating with us since day one, but people fail to listen.....

This earth and reality is but a simulation in the mind of God, and to truly know the mind of God we must be present with God (which will not happen in this lifetime), Paradise is much realer than this reality and than most people think.....

So we're an experiment huh?

Can you tell that god dude of yours that it failed quite miserably so far?

reply to post by kman420


That's the most intellectual thing you could add, Kman420?

Why don't you go smoke another one, your brains obviously fried.

reply to post by Romekje


You just told Him.

No need for me to.

reply to post by Iason321


This makes a whole lot of sense to me. I wonder what would be the age and length of our kind today.

Originally posted by Romekje

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by windword

 

It comes from the God who directed it all.

This entire experiment, from beginning to end, and he's been communicating with us since day one, but people fail to listen.....

This earth and reality is but a simulation in the mind of God, and to truly know the mind of God we must be present with God (which will not happen in this lifetime), Paradise is much realer than this reality and than most people think.....

So we're an experiment huh?

Can you tell that god dude of yours that it failed quite miserably so far?

Maybe on a line for steady improvement which has not yet ended with a perfected line.