Revealed - The TRUE Biblical Geneology

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Sure, I believe the EoG is referencing the same flood that the Bible talks about, so whatever fits and seems the most plausible to you!

Hydroman, you see my friend? The Bible is not bunk man, you just need to research it if you're not gonna just have blind faith in it! (not that having blind faith in the Bible is bad.....honestly, i'd rather see someone believe in a literal genesis, 6k year old earth, flat earth, earth at the center of the universe, and a literal adam and eve, than to just have blind faith in secular society telling them God doesn't exist and the Bible is bunk based on false interpretations......)

The Bible doesn't say Earth is the center of the universe.

reply to post by Iason321


"and in the last days many will come ......."

Your not the first, you wont be the last.

reply to post by pacifier2012


Are you calling me out as someone proclaiming a false gospel?

I am not proclaiming any false Gospel, I believe 100% in the Bible and I believe it is the inspired Word of God.

All I'm saying is the earth isn't 6,000 years old and a literal interpretation of Genesis cannot possibly be the truth,
and when you break up the text of the OT and read the Genesis accounts whilst applying the actual meanings to the words used, it becomes quite clear that Genesis was not referring to specific single people, rather groups of people or mankind.

I have 100% faith in the Bible, and I also have faith science is correct in explaining to us our origins and evolution.

I believe the Bible and science are not contradictory, rather they are complimentary....

I don't wanna cause any divisions amongst my brethern, so if you are a brethern who believes in YEC or OEC, I will not try to debunk your beliefs or explain why Theistic Evolution is the best interpretation of Genesis.....

Just continue proclaiming the Gospel and hold strong to your faith....

Amen

Also, before I depart, I pose one question to anybody saying I'm proclaiming a false doctrine:

Ask yourself this, do unicorns exist? If no, than why does the Bible speak of Unicorns?

Is it because Unicorns exist? Or is it because Unicorns is not the best translation for the Hebrew term, r'em or reh-ame', and the KJV translators decided to use Unicorns, instead of the more accurate rendering which means Ram, wild ox, or wild bull?

Good night, God bless

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by windword
Where does this information of geneology come from? If everybody, except a chosen few, were killed in the flood, along with their records and buildings, ie. libraries, how do we know this is true geneology?

Was Noah, a ship builder a zoologist and an historian too? Where, in the bible did god tell Noah to grab the books from the libraries before it started to rain?

By the time Moses was around Egypt was a thriving metropolis and the Indus Vally and Babylon were also thriving communities. So where does Moses get this geneolgical information and how can anyone believe it to be true?

Perhaps a clue to this is in the actual structure of the text.

The Sumerians (one of the Canaanite tribes) wrote in cuneiform on clay tablets. It is likely that this was the standard writing technology for all Canaanite tribes (of which the Hebrews were one). The problem with clay tablets is that if they get too large, they break too easily and if they are too small, then you can't write any significant amount on them. So the Sumerians had a way of writing on separate clay tablets and ensuring that the sequence and relationships of the tablets would not be confused. It consisted of a system like this: an attribution (an acknowledgement of the author) and the last phrase/sentence on one tablet would be repeated at the top of the next tablet in sequence.

It has been suggested that Moses took this structure and transcribed, word for word, the content of tablets onto sheep skins in scroll form. These scrolls had the advantage that they were very portable and could store an unbroken narrative as a single scroll. They also had a considerable longevity and were less fragile than clay tablets which could smash if dropped.

If you look at the Genesis account you see this same text structure. There are attributions (usually mistranslated as "these are the generations of..." with the sentence or phrase before each one repeated straight after. This means that it is highly probable that the Genesis text was copied straight from clay tablets.

The biblical account, while similar to other creation myths, is significantly different enough to NOT have been just a 2nd generation copy of these other creation myths. It was likely that these are the actual eyewitness accounts of the people who the account is attributed to. These accounts would therefore have been highly venerated by the people who inherited them (the direct descendents of the authors).

It is from these accounts that we get the genealogies, which still exist in the text.

edit on 19/4/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

I think that is probably the way that it happened, but it still leaves the unanswered question of how these records survived a global flood, if there was one. This geneology of Genesis 5 is of pre-flood people. In addition this geneology purports to be the roots of mankind, (from Adam to Noah) but I believe it fails to list peoples of other parts of the planet like, Europe, China and deep in the jungles of Africa, where archeology has determined that populations did exist.

reply to post by Iason321


If you are really interested in ancient geneology - why don't you start with the ancient Steppe people ? I know about them but it appears no one on ATS has ever mentioned them!

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by windword
Where does this information of geneology come from? If everybody, except a chosen few, were killed in the flood, along with their records and buildings, ie. libraries, how do we know this is true geneology?

Was Noah, a ship builder a zoologist and an historian too? Where, in the bible did god tell Noah to grab the books from the libraries before it started to rain?

By the time Moses was around Egypt was a thriving metropolis and the Indus Vally and Babylon were also thriving communities. So where does Moses get this geneolgical information and how can anyone believe it to be true?

Perhaps a clue to this is in the actual structure of the text.

The Sumerians (one of the Canaanite tribes) wrote in cuneiform on clay tablets. It is likely that this was the standard writing technology for all Canaanite tribes (of which the Hebrews were one). The problem with clay tablets is that if they get too large, they break too easily and if they are too small, then you can't write any significant amount on them. So the Sumerians had a way of writing on separate clay tablets and ensuring that the sequence and relationships of the tablets would not be confused. It consisted of a system like this: an attribution (an acknowledgement of the author) and the last phrase/sentence on one tablet would be repeated at the top of the next tablet in sequence.

It has been suggested that Moses took this structure and transcribed, word for word, the content of tablets onto sheep skins in scroll form. These scrolls had the advantage that they were very portable and could store an unbroken narrative as a single scroll. They also had a considerable longevity and were less fragile than clay tablets which could smash if dropped.

If you look at the Genesis account you see this same text structure. There are attributions (usually mistranslated as "these are the generations of..." with the sentence or phrase before each one repeated straight after. This means that it is highly probable that the Genesis text was copied straight from clay tablets.

The biblical account, while similar to other creation myths, is significantly different enough to NOT have been just a 2nd generation copy of these other creation myths. It was likely that these are the actual eyewitness accounts of the people who the account is attributed to. These accounts would therefore have been highly venerated by the people who inherited them (the direct descendents of the authors).

It is from these accounts that we get the genealogies, which still exist in the text.

edit on 19/4/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

I think that is probably the way that it happened, but it still leaves the unanswered question of how these records survived a global flood, if there was one. This geneology of Genesis 5 is of pre-flood people. In addition this geneology purports to be the roots of mankind, (from Adam to Noah) but I believe it fails to list peoples of other parts of the planet like, Europe, China and deep in the jungles of Africa, where archeology has determined that populations did exist.

At the time of the flood, only a few tablets would have existed (I would assume probably only the first four from the "toledot" attribution statements in the text). It is conceptually not a problem for Noah to have carried 4 clay tablets in the ark with him.

The Majority of the first genealogy after Adam (in Genesis 5) was attributed to Noah.

People didn't spread into the rest of the world significantly until after the Tower of Babel (which was post-flood).

I pose a question for you all - if Adam, and seth, and cain, and all the others given in the Genesis 5 geneaology were invidual entities, single people, than how come the Geneaology of the LORD Jesus Christ, starts with Abraham? My belief is that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the patriarchs of our modern man, they are among the first in Genesis referred to that refer to specific individual men. Noah and his sons being single people or groups of people is up for debate with me still..... but I am 100% confident Abram/Isaac/Jacob were individual men.....

Go check out the geneaology of Jesus Christ, and ask yourself, why doesn't it start from Adam and eve and seth and cain and abel if those were truly individual people? The only explanation is that they weren't, and that's why Jesus lineage starts off with Abraham...

The minute you see words like

... "the TRUE....."

If you had something revelatory you would just present it. Even basic Biblical or Human phsycology explains if you have to justifysomething with those words, you are not telling the truth....

It's just like Ron Weinland who has a few weeks before even his most ardent followers hav to admit they were conned by the words "...the TRUE....'

Originally posted by Iason321
I pose a question for you all - if Adam, and seth, and cain, and all the others given in the Genesis 5 geneaology were invidual entities, single people, than how come the Geneaology of the LORD Jesus Christ, starts with Abraham? My belief is that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the patriarchs of our modern man, they are among the first in Genesis referred to that refer to specific individual men. Noah and his sons being single people or groups of people is up for debate with me still..... but I am 100% confident Abram/Isaac/Jacob were individual men.....

Go check out the geneaology of Jesus Christ, and ask yourself, why doesn't it start from Adam and eve and seth and cain and abel if those were truly individual people? The only explanation is that they weren't, and that's why Jesus lineage starts off with Abraham...

Luke 3:23-38 Jesus lineage back to Adam.

Matthews gospel was concentrating on Jesus as Jewish Messiah. In this a lineage back to Abraham is appropriate.

Luke was concentrating on the humanity of Jesus. A lineage back to Adam is more appropriate here.
and this is what we see.

reply to post by Iason321


Your point of view makes a lot more sense than one man living to be hundreds of years old.
Just sayin

reply to post by chr0naut



Yup, and most people miss the genealogy in John. Presenting him as the Son of God and going back to God.

Originally posted by pacifier2012
The minute you see words like

... "the TRUE....."

If you had something revelatory you would just present it. Even basic Biblical or Human phsycology explains if you have to justifysomething with those words, you are not telling the truth....

It's just like Ron Weinland who has a few weeks before even his most ardent followers hav to admit they were conned by the words "...the TRUE....'

You have a point if you're not refuting a lie.

reply to post by Iason321

Ask yourself this, do unicorns exist? If no, than why does the Bible speak of Unicorns?

Go see what "unicorn" meant in 1611 English vernacular brother.

Originally posted by Iason321
I don't wanna cause any divisions amongst my brethern, so if you are a brethern who believes in YEC or OEC, I will not try to debunk your beliefs or explain why Theistic Evolution is the best interpretation of Genesis.....

Just continue proclaiming the Gospel and hold strong to your faith....

Amen

Besides the Genesis 3 fail, the huge problem is contained in Exodus. And Jesus saying Adam and Eve were at "the beginning' of creation. TE and OEC fails scripture on many levels, they were invented to challenge Darwin by panicking Christians instead of just trusting God's Word like they should have all along. Darwin failed without the need to re-invent Christianity.

It's a VERY important issue. If we tell people they cannot trust God in Genesis then they have doubts about trusting God in John 3:16 and Romans 9:10 and 1 Corinthians 15 as well.

reply to post by Iason321


No, you do not speak Truth, you speak deception, that's what the Spirit tells me. Why is it time any one hears this?

Here is a good overview of the biblical data..

whenever a christian uses the word "truth", we should be cautious
on the other hand, this is great material for scholars of sophisms

ask a difficult question?
chances are high that the answer starts with something like "god said/did/..."
as if the author has any idea.

but, hey, a lot of people benefit from whispering to the wall and hoping the imaginary friend is on that wall so if they are happy doing so, it's still better than having to swallow legal dope from pharma
...
if only they would keep their relationship with their illusion to themselves

I have much to add to your theory, i'd start my own thread about this but as i made my account today i can not do so without posting 20 replies, what you have listed is quiet informative but the bible is more than just about that, i've started reading the bible resently and just got half way into the book of Exodus, there are tons of hidden messages i have found within the book of genesis and there are tons more to come throughout the bible,

i have started to study it because i learned that a lot of the bright minds of our history like issac newton, albert einstein ect ect studied the bible , one of the most amazing things i found was right at the beginning, it proves that the bible is MUCH MORE than nice stories that the average-thinking man sees by reading them, i'd like to mention something that you have displayed to us, you listed pretty much what it says in chapter 5 in the book of genesis
"Adam to Noah" where it simply lists the fathers & the sons and how long they lived.

What many people do not realize is that each of those hebrew names has a meaning if translated into english, those names are listed like that with a meaning to it , and if you read the bible carefully it sort of hints you why god told the fathers why to name their sons that specific name

Please have a look.
Translation

Adam - Man (he had 3 children but in that chapter it only lists one for a reason)
Seth - Appointed (he was the father of)
Enosh - mortal (he was the father of)
Kenan - Sorrow (he as the father of)
Mahalalel - blessed god (he was the father of)
Jared - shall come down (he was the father of )
Enoch - Teaching (he was the father of)
Methuselah - his death shall bring (he as the father of)
Lamech - despairing (he was the father of)
Noah - bring relief / rest

put all these definition together:

Man, Appointed, Mortal, Sorrow, "but the" Blessed God, Shall come down
Teaching, "that" His death shall bring, Despairing, Comfort & rest.

Coincidence? hardly doubt it.

the bible has tons of hidden messages i think people underestimate the great power of god's word
if you want to spark interest towards these things, i suggest you read the book "The Lost Symbol"
that's how i got into the "religious" study.

Thanks