Man Killed During Initiation at Masonic Lodge

Originally posted by Murgatroid
This was found in a blog comment:

Perhaps you ask the blog poster a few questions. Such as:

ALEISTER CROWLEY.

Did Ya Know:

1. Aleister Crowley is the most decorated free mason in the history of the craft.

In what way was Aleister Crowley the most decorated? After all, Crowley was never actually a legitimate Mason.

2. Aleister Crowley unwittingly revealed the royal secret of freemasonry in “The Book of the Law”.

Crowley joined an irregular pseudo-Masonic lodge in Paris a year after he wrote the Book of the Law. While the Book of the Law is certainly interesting, and in parts is truly a poetic masterpiece, it's not Masonic, nor has anything to do with Freemasonry.

3. Crowley’s brand of freemasonry is the O.T.O.,the Ordo Templi Orientis, a Magickal order run by Crowley while he was alive.

Crowley did not claim the O.T.O. was a "brand of Freemasonry". In fact, he was very specific in stating the opposite.

4.These are the 3 main royal secrets of freemasonry as was told to me personally when I became a sublime prince of the royal secret (32nd degree)

No, there were not. How do I know? Because in the ceremony of the 32nd degree, I have served as Master of Kadosh (presiding officer) for many years. I know the ritual like the back of my hand.

All paths lead to god. All paths lead to heaven. As above, so below. Order through chaos.

The first two statements, even if true, have nothing to do with the latter two. The blog author seems confused as to what he's talking about.

We worship the devil, and the name of Yeshua, AKA Jesus Christ is forbidden in any lodge.

The devil is not mentioned in Freemasonry. It is a flat-out lie that the name of Christ is forbidden in a lodge. What *is* forbidden is religious zealots disrupting fraternity meetings by trying to preach to everyone. If you want to do that, go to church.

We gain immortality through immorality. In other words, sex magick. Through sodomy, we gain immortality and eternal youth through sex magick.

Ummmm.....yeah....I kinda doubt it.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
"It is a flat-out lie that the name of Christ is forbidden in a lodge."

Shark's in Finding Nemo: "Denial..."

"... we instantly can see that they are justifying the practice of lying to their own adherents, until such time as they are "capable" of knowing the truth, and have attained to a status within Freemasonry that lifts them out of the "masses" spoken of in this paragraph. We have discovered that many Masons are never deemed "worthy" of learning the truth about their organization, even though they have been members for decades and have arisen to a very high degree. The great advantage for a senior Mason who has never learned the truth about Masonry is that he can be trusted to vehemently, and honestly, deny that there is anything wrong with the organization, and be very convincing in doing so. This technique is called, "Plausible Denial".

Masons who do know the truth are expected to lie to any person who is not a Mason, for they are but those despicable "masses", AKA the "profane".
LINK

Quotes from the despicable "masses":

"In many lodges the holy name of Jesus is not allowed to be spoken. Praying to Jesus, or ending a prayer in the name of Jesus is an "offense" big enough to get a lodge closed.

The removal of the name of Jesus and references to Him in Bible verses used in the ritual are “slight but necessary modifications.” (Albert Mackey, “Masonic Ritualist,” p.272)" LINK

"Freemasonry requires Christian members to disobey Jesus Christ by officially forbidding all discussions of Christ from Lodge activities. " LINK

"Masonry absolutely denies the right of Christians to try to share Jesus Christ with other Masons. The Lodge prohibits all attempts at conversion. Yet it is permissible to speak of and teach others about the "God of the Masonic Lodge" which is the G.A.O.T.U. (We will discuss later what the term means)-Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Vol. I, pg. 192

On the surface, Masonry appears to accept "all Religions", but at the same time- Jesus Christ is left out in the cold. From "The Masonic Handbook ", pg. 184, we read: "Whether you swear or take God's name in vain don't matter so much, of course the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, as you, know don't amount to anything, but Mah-hah-bone- O horror! You must never, on any account, speak that awful name aloud. That would be the most heinous crime... unmasonic- unpardonable." Quoted from The Masonic Report, McQuaig, pg 2

So, Masons claim that the name of Jesus "don't amount to much of anything"! and that it's alright to take God's name in vain- just as long as you be sure not to take their pagan God's name in vain!" LINK

"Freemasonry 'carefully excludes' the Lord Jesus Christ from the Lodge and Chapter, repudiates His mediatorship, rejects His atonement, denies and disowns His gospel, frowns upon His religion and His church, ignores the Holy Spirit, and sets up for itself a spiritual empire, a religious theocracy, at the head of which it place the G.A.O.T.U. -the god of nature- and from which the only living true God is expelled by resolution." Former Mason- Edmond Ronayne, The Master's Carpet or Masonry and Baal-Worship-Identical, pg. 87

"Refraining from mentioning the name of Jesus--the name despised by many Masons and prohibited inside their lodges--Cardinal Cooke bowed to Masonry's worst heresy by remarking, "I know of your firm belief in the Supreme Being, the Great Architect of the Universe, and of the holy writings appropriate to the religion of your members, and I salute you for your loyalty to these ancient values."

Cardinal Cooke's words were obviously well chosen and imbued with hidden meaning. In fact, the Masonic Lodge's "Supreme Architect of the Universe" is none other than Lucifer, who cloaks himself in Masonic literature with the names of such deities as Zoroaster, Shiva, Abaddon, and in other Masonic pagan-god disguises. As for the "holy writings" of Freemasonry, these have their origins in the Roman mystery religions, in 19th century occultism, and in Egyptianism/Babylonianism. Such are the "ancient values" of the satanic Masonic Lodge." LINK

Strange, they don't seem to have a problem with the name of Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, Ganesh, or Thor. Why is it ONLY the name of Jesus?

Freemasonry: an ancient brotherhood dedicated to light, life, and truth...

But ignores that Light; it ignores the way; it ignores the truth; it ignores the life; it ignores Jesus Christ. It tells its members: "You can do it yourself." He is the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.

reply to post by Murgatroid


I know what your problem is. It's your sources.
If you try looking for answers in places other than religious zealots and cult's, you might find unbiased truth. Or........you could ask someone who is actually on the inside. But you aren't here for truth are you. You have your agenda. You are here to Save our souls and try to explain how we are unknowingly worshiping an evil entity.

Well, God bless you brother. Thanks for the thought. It's so sweet of you to care and I mean that sincerely. But you are being guided by the hand of the devil. Jesus Christ would never judge, nor would he try to provoke a mean spirited exchange. He would try to understand his adversary and see if there was a problem at all. I do wish Christians wanted to actually BE like Christ and not just use his name for a cool title.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Strange, they don't seem to have a problem with the name of Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, Ganesh, or Thor. Why is it ONLY the name of Jesus?

In my jurisidiction you can not mention ANY of them, and that is they way it should be. No dicussion of religion or politics.

Strange, they don't seem to have a problem with the name of Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, Ganesh, or Thor. Why is it ONLY the name of Jesus?

None of those are mentioned in Freemasonry.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Strange, they don't seem to have a problem with the name of Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, Ganesh, or Thor. Why is it ONLY the name of Jesus?

In my jurisidiction you can not mention ANY of them, and that is they way it should be. No dicussion of religion or politics.

There's that and I guess I've yet to meet a brother exhorting "the name of Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, Ganesh, or Thor". Perhaps the insistence on the exhortation of personal beliefs is a uniquely Christian one (and non-Mason one at that). It's a little ol' thing called respect. You know, live and let live? Maybe you're familiar with a little passage from the New Testament that goes "Vengeance is Mine, saith the Lord"?

Fitz

reply to post by Murgatroid

Ugh, more anti-Mason "you're not high enough" crap. Are people really so arrogant that they think they know more about an organization than actual members? You should realize MasonicLight is one of the most knowledgeable Masons on ATS. Your first little link is nothing more than yanking quotes completely out of context and trying to damn the organization. It's cherry picking.

Your 2nd link is again nothing more than cherry picking and all out fabrication. So much for not bearing false witness. Chris Haffner would find the cut-n-paste job of his fantastic book which I have read deplorable. The cite you sourced tried to take a book he wrote to counter the claims of Christian fundamentalists and then they attempt to turn it back on him? Fore-shame fork tongues. Plus, many of the quotes your site has pulled is only the opinion of that person, they do not represent the entire fraternity. I'd also like to note from that site that Jim Shaw was never a 33° Scottish Rite Mason. Also realize that a degree surrounding the Royal Arch is not solely limited to the Scottish Rite, but is also in the American York Rite system. Black men are also allowed into the Masons, in most jurisdictions, but sadly there are some jurisdictions in the South US that still have some what can be seen as racist tendencies. There are also Prince Hall Grand Lodges which for the most part are in amity with mainstream Grand Lodges (AF&AM and F&AM).

That sounds fascinating for the quote on Rudyard Kipling. Some of the men who intiated, passed, and raised me were a mix between a Jewish man, a Christian, and a deist.

Still from the 2nd link, George Washington never renounced the Craft:

This hoax got its start in 1837 with the publication of a tract by Joseph Ritner, Governor of Pennsylvania. Although easily debunked, it was reprinted by E. A. Cook & Co., Chicago, in 1877, shortly after Prof. Charles Albert Blanchard (1848-1925), a founder and first lecturer of the National Christian Association published a rewriting of the same story entitled Was Washington a Freemason?

Nor was Pike a Klansman.

No, Christ is not mocked in the Mark Master degree. That is a misconception and one who has presided over all of the Royal Arch degrees, I know that degree like the back of my hand.

Also, Holy Blood, Holy Grail, while a fascinating read is based on false information, mainly the Dossier Secret. I believe the Protocols have also been proven to be false.

No Freemasonry is not a religion as we do not meet the basic requirements to be a religion.

I couldn't touch upon everything that was wrong with that site.

I wonder why the 3 amigos have stopped having mods remove repeat threads.......

This is ridiculously old news.

Sauron, mirthful? Any one?

Lol @ the newbie anti masons who are still using the same crap from nearly ten years ago.

That is all.

reply to post by Murgatroid

Continuing on from your third quote and link. No we are not forced to disobey Christ. No other religion's chief character or deity is used in place. We use a generic term when we pray and for each person's interpretations they are praying to their version of what god is. In the Masonic Knights Templar, part of the York Rite (an appendant body) is very Christian in nature. To the rational Christian there is no blasphemy in either of the Rites.

Now onto your 4th link and quote. The Lodge is not the place for proselytizing, it is neutral ground. As I said before, we use a generic term in Lodge. As we allow men of every faith to join the Lodge must stay neutral so as not to seem overly bias one way over another. GAOTU is a term for each member to apply and manifest in his own way. When I pray and we use GAOTU, it is the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham.

As I said before, Christianity is not the only one singled out in this, no religions entities are used during our ritual. Allen Roberts has it wrong, there is no god of Freemasonry. As I said before, Jim Shaw was not a 33° Scottish Rite Mason. He made that up and I believe that Brent Morris and Art de Hoyos have proven that.

Ugh, Christian fundamentalists are really annoying as they give us good Christians a bad name.

Onto your next link and quote, no, the name of Jesus is not despised "by many Masons." No, there are no blood oaths as that would require the spilling of blood and I can guarantee you that wouldn't happen.

The rest of this site is just full of militant, extremist Christian garbage. Too many fundamentalist Christians have taken the Christ out of Christianity.

Strange, they don't seem to have a problem with the name of Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, Ganesh, or Thor. Why is it ONLY the name of Jesus?

Where in our rituals are any of those names used? Nowhere. They are not used in our prayers or rituals, but you're just cherry picking to try and show us as anti-Christian.

It tells its members: "You can do it yourself." He is the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.

Actually we don't say that at all, but thanks for trying. Maybe you should get some better sources that don't perpetuate fallacies and hoaxes or just outright fabricate lies to defame Freemasonry.

Why can't we all just be honest and admit that Freemasonry is a cult and has always been one?

www.merriam-webster.com...

Definition of CULT

1: formal religious veneration : worship

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator

5: a great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially: such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

www.religioustolerance.org...

Quotations:
"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion;
and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.

"Cults are claimed to be deceitful. They are claimed to be harmful to their members. They are claimed to be undermining American values. Cults are claimed to be just about every bad thing in the book these days, and with the pervasive images of Manson and Jim Jones hanging over us, any group that is called a cult is immediately associated with those two people." J. Gordon Melton.

"My working definition of a cult is a group that you don't like, and I say that somewhat facetiously, but at the same time, in fact, that is my working definition of a cult. It is a group that somebody doesn't like. It is a derogatory term, and I have never seen it redeemed from the derogatory connotations that it picked up in the sociological literature in the 1930s." J. Gordon Melton.

"A cult is a church down the street from your church." Anon

reply to post by Afterthought


The inherent flaw with the notion that we are a cult is that we don't worship any deity specifically while in an open lodge. When we pray at the open and close of a lodge meeting, or during degrees, it's symbolic prayer, as a fraternal group. The deity ones praying to is the personal choice of individual masons. So , no, we are not a cult. We are a fraternity, always have been, always will be.

not buying it was an accident

obviously, staged sacrifice

something they're expert/pros at

reptilian masonic 12 days of destruction leadin up to may 20

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Cults don't always have to do with religion. Cults are more about ritual and ensuring that the members remain within specified guidelines.

reply to post by Afterthought


So, how many times have you participated in Masonic rituals?

I ask because there must be specific reasons you think our ritual makes us a cult. Personally I find many parts of Masonic ritual beautiful beyond words, but you know more than I do...

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Why are you bringing this back onto me?
We're not discussing your lodge and what you do specifically.

I'm wanting to talk about all lodges in general and how they all utilize rituals and symbolism while preserving a system of beliefs.

Edit to Add:

but you know more than I do...

That comment was very childish.
Can we please discuss this as adults?

reply to post by Afterthought


Certainly.

What are your concerns. I've said many times on ATS, that with specific questions I can give much better answers. The paradox here is that no matter what, or how accurate my replies may be, they will go un believed by most of the members here who have a set disposition towards freemasonry.

With that being said, take the time to read my thread in rats. Yeah, shameless plug, but seriously, it explains a lot.

So, let's discuss.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Why should I read your thread? What's it about? Why can't we simply discuss the idea that Masonic lodges exhibit cult-like behavior in this thread?

reply to post by Afterthought


You should read my thread because it's about Masonic ritual.

And, again, I have no problems derailing this thread to discuss what your suggesting. I'm just asking you to explain to me what exactly makes freemasonry cultish since we as a fraternity don't worship a specific diety, and don't conform to set guidelines, aside from being law abiding, moral citizens. And wearing aprons when we gather.....

And I'm not throwing it back on you. I just need some clarity if you expect good answers.

reply to post by Afterthought


What makes masonry a cult in your eyes? If you go to church, what denomination are you?
Do you believe in God?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Afterthought

 

What makes masonry a cult in your eyes? If you go to church, what denomination are you?
Do you believe in God?

If you read a wee bit earlier in this thread, I stated that I avoid all group activities that expect you to follow their rituals and guidelines. I have no need to be part of a group where I'm expected to be part of a hive mind mentality.