The DHS is KGB...... (America has been invaded by Russia)

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by miniatus

 

Seems to me that if the DHS let's members of the KGB in, for the interest of National Security, then they have set the bar dangerously low.

No, this is standard operating procedure in intelligence circles, and DHS encompasses all our intelligence services now ( except the CIA, I believe .. not sure about that one ). When you have a former enemy agent at your disposal for consulting, you have access to information and perspective you wouldn't otherwise have, that's gold. Like I said repeatedly, this has been going on since the cold war.. It just makes sense to do it.

You *WANT* those former enemy spies on your side.. how can you not get that? it's an extremely valuable asset.. however, it doesn't change the fact that it's not true anyway .. the former KGB you referenced apparently do NOT work for the DHS.. One of the two conceivably could have been hired as a consultant since they have a counterintelligence company.. but whether they have or not .. we don't know.

So we're back to square one. the two agents you used as proof? it can't even be proven they ever worked for the US to begin with..

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
In any case I think it's important to compare and contrast the two orginizations.

I can't argue with you on THAT point, that is worthy of it's own thread .. if you want to compare the DHS to the KGB then I'm willing to debate that, but I'm more likely to side with you on more points than I would disagree with you because I'm no fan of the DHS.

However.. sticking to the topic at hand and not diverting to something else - the root of your post was that the DHS is the KGB.. I think at this point we should agree - With the evidence at hand, this is not true and cannot be proven.

The evidence you presented and the sources you provided have been pretty well shredded up I think.. I've done my own research no the two former KGB and find no evidence at all to support the claims your sourced articles make.. and the fact the sourced articles make many mistakes in their data doesn't help them either.

I'm all for you opening a new thread saying that the DHS is becoming like the KGB, and here's why .... perhaps even bring a call to action and make it something worthwhile.

But if you do that - you might want to leave out the stuff presented in this thread because it holds no substance, at least in regards to the two former KGB and the sourced articles..

www.homelandsecurity.com...

Established in 2000 by the original founders of the Terrorism Research Center, HomelandSecurity.com is a privately operated web site and is not affiliated with any government agency.

Notice this website I had seen several times BEFORE 911 and then after 911 they threw together the DHS which just happened to fill top leadership with many of the top names from the 2000 version of www.homelandsecurity.com...

Coincidence? Think again.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
www.homelandsecurity.com...

Established in 2000 by the original founders of the Terrorism Research Center, HomelandSecurity.com is a privately operated web site and is not affiliated with any government agency.

Notice this website I had seen several times BEFORE 911 and then after 911 they threw together the DHS which just happened to fill top leadership with many of the top names from the 2000 version of www.homelandsecurity.com...

Coincidence? Think again.

I fail to see any relevance? .. homelandsecurity.com isn't affiliated with the DHS .. and it existed prior to the DHS ever forming .. How does this tie into the topic of DHS being the KGB?

Even if the DHS brought on members of what used to be the "Terrorism Research Center" .. what exactly does that prove other than DHS brought on experts in terrorism and used a similar name? .. =) honestly it seems off topic.

reply to post by miniatus


You're right, it doesn't much does it? These were mostly Americans who filled the DHS ranks.

reply to post by miniatus


You bring up some good points, but Im gonna continue looking and see what else I can find.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


Heres one thing I find quite disturbing. Before 9/11 the POTUS always referred to the US as the nation or the Republic but after 9/11 it was referred to as the Homeland. Motherland, Fatherland and Homeland. What does it all mean?

en.wikipedia.org...

Nomenclature

In an August 5, 2002 speech, President Bush said: "We're fighting ... to secure freedom in the homeland."[13] Prior to the creation of DHS, American presidents had referred to the U.S. as "the nation" or "the republic", and to its internal policies as "domestic".[14] Also unprecedented was the use, from 2002, of the phrase "the homeland" by White House spokespeople.[14] The choice of this phrase raised questions regarding the self-image of the USA.[15]
[edit]

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by Trexter Ziam

 

Heres one thing I find quite disturbing. Before 9/11 the POTUS always referred to the US as the nation or the Republic but after 9/11 it was referred to as the Homeland. Motherland, Fatherland and Homeland. What does it all mean?

You're dealing with a new president.. not every president is the same person.. that is again stretching, perhaps even further than before.. There's no book on what words to use when you're a president, or Bush would be the prime example of failing with all of his bad linguistic skills and miss-speaking..

The whole GOAL of DHS was to try to feel patriotic and down to earth.. Patriot Act alone was worded to try to garner support.. Homeland just feels warm and fuzzy.. it's political .. it's psychological... it's not KGB

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

It's not too late. If it was they would be killing us by the millions. Just like the KGB did.

Didn't they just buy 450 million 9mm rounds?

reply to post by Nite_wing


Hollow points and make sure to check out the armored trucks in the thread linked.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


I think their is a kernal of truth here, but I think it relates more to the Communist Party and Marxists than the KGB.

Communist Goals submitted to the Congressional Record in 1963.
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

see next post

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Hi hon,
I just read the intro.
And I do not have time for all the articles you have presented.
I like to cut to the chase, always.
First I would like to know if JOE is still alive here.
Do you contend the present Russians or the Soviets are the bad guys??
HUGE difference in my opinion.
I would be glad to start here if you don't mind
cheers ljb

reply to post by Blaine91555

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

From:

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963



Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

Sorry for the multiple posts but it won't fit

I doubt the Russians are a part of this anymore, but the general goals of the Communists and Marxists are the same, which is their right. They will never put together a majority to back them.

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Who is Joe? Are you referring to Stalin?

No I would not say that russians are the bad guys, I would say that DHS has an agenda that closely resembles the KGB.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Ah the naked communist. I can agree with you here. Most of those goals have been achieved.

reply to post by miniatus


I hardly feel fuzzy and warm when it comes to DHS. Nothing that has happened in the last 10 years has made me feel that way. There is nothing patriotic about the Patriot Act.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by longjohnbritches

 

Who is Joe? Are you referring to Stalin?

No I would not say that russians are the bad guys, I would say that DHS has an agenda that closely resembles the KGB.

Stalin is never referred to as JOE.
There is only one JOE when It comes to Communists!
Joseph McCarthy : Biography
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAmccarthy.htm - Similarto Joseph McCarthy : Biography .www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...


Joseph McCarthy was born on a farm in Appleton, Wisconsin, on 14th November, 1908. His parents were devout Roman Catholics and Joseph was the fifth of ...

KGB is not Mother Russia. It belongs exclusivly to the X USSR.
Marxist, Bolshevik, Communists

If you would like to continue I would love to talk Joeseph Stalin,
Trotsky and Lenin. Even Hitler but he don't fit.
Take your pick.
cheers ljb

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Interesting stuff. So the KGB and DHS isn't so far fetched after all.

Please go on. Let's discuss the bolsheviks and the role of KGB.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by longjohnbritches

 

Interesting stuff. So the KGB and DHS isn't so far fetched after all.

Please go on. Let's discuss the bolsheviks and the role of KGB.

Take this for what it is worth
The KGB History

ww.topspysecrets.com...
The KGB history shows that the Soviet intelligence service and secret police ‘Checka’ changed many names and functions before it transformed into the KGB.

functions before it transformed into the KGB.
The various name changes of Cheka and their dates are given as follows,

Cheka (December 1917)
GPU (February 1922)
OGPU (July 1923)
GUGB (July 1934)
NKGB (February 1941)
GUGB (July 1941)
NKGB (April 1943)
MGB (March 1946)
MVD (March 1953)
KGB (March 1954)

When Cheka was established in 1917, it was meant to be a temporary organization that Bolsheviks relied to consolidate their rule. It was to be abolished once Lenin had come to power.

Cheka was abolished after the civil war of 1918 to 1921. Its place was taken by State Political Directorate (GPU) in 1922. Joseph Stalin used the GPU for crushing his opponents.

In 1934 Stalin renamed it ‘the People's Comissariat for Internal Affairs’ and gave it vast punitive powers. Because it was no longer under party rule, Stalin used it as a personal tool in oppressing his people during the ‘Great Terror’ years of the 30’s. The secret police was the most feared institution in the Stalinist years.

After the death of Stalin, the MVD abandoned extreme violence and was reorganized to form the KGB in March 1954. All of KGB’s predecessors used terror as the means to control public dissent while using idealism to recruit agents in foreign countries.

The modernization and reform of KGB was more pronounced under the leadership of Yuri Andropov. He remained chairman from 1967 to 1982 and later became the general secretary of the Communist Party.

When Mikhail Gorbachev came to power in the 80’s he made sweeping reforms in the KGB. As a result the KGB became less aggressive towards political dissidents and curtailed its struggle against foreign countries.

In august 1991, KGB Chairman Vladimir Kryuchkov led a failed coup against the government. It was the beginning of the end for KGB. This event and revelations about other activities, including the infiltration of Russian Orthodox Church, created popular demand for the reformation of KGB.

Russian president Boris Yeltsin split the organization after Soviet breakup. As a result five agencies were formed, each with a separate function. KGB officially ceased to exist on 6th November, 1991.



to be continued. Hopefully we are on the same page.?

BTW could you change your thread title from Russia to USSR it would be more accurate,IMO

thanks ljb