Kindergartner handcuffed, taken to police station after allegedly throwing tantrum

Originally posted by Raivan31
When I was in primary school it was a very, very rare thing for a child to lose control like this and almost every time it did happen it was because they were not being listened to (regardless of whether they were right or wrong) and acted out.

Every time a child acted out like this they would be physically restrained and sometimes smacked (where nessecary) and the problem would stop.

People shout out so loud to not hit kids but in my own experience being shown, physically, that they are not the strongest person in the room ALWAYS stops kids from trying to bully and intimidate.

Kids are smart enough to know not to pick a fight with an adult, because they will lose.

Physical violence has it's place in our society like it or not.

The REAL issue is of a generation of kids growing up with the belief that there is no comeuppance for their actions, they all seem to think that they can get their own way by hurting people because no one will stop them.

being smacked down when your acting up is an important, if harsh, lesson that all people need to learn

As my Father used to say "there's always someone who's bigger, tougher, smarter or faster so don't get too confident"

Hey listen, I agree to a certain extent. Yet, one word changes EVERYTHING for school officials these days:

LITIGATION.

reply to post by GhostLancer


Sadly, this is all too true...

People think that a more intellectual approach to society as opposed to the old standard of physical is better and more advanced but it only results in this kind of situation.

Instead of burning witch's we litigate against them, if you follow my meaning.
Society seems to think that all problems can be settled and dealt with by using a courtroom instead of a Whip, but the reality is that both are flawed, I hope that eventually society will learn to observe that which worked in the past and combine it with that which works in the present and try to evolve our systems of governance.

Even ground and balance between the different parts of human nature needs to be accepted before this kind of insane situation ends.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


I dont care how old she is. Hitting some one and breaking their property is wrong. At age 6 , you know hitting some one or breaking some one's 'stuff' is wrong.

Its not child abuse. Its called a dangerous child who needs psychological review, i don't recall very many incidents like this around my school.

Hell any child that is turning violent in that manner needs to be reviewed on just who is raising him/her or relieved of a possible disease or mental disorder.

Originally posted by Raivan31
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

Sadly, this is all too true...

People think that a more intellectual approach to society as opposed to the old standard of physical is better and more advanced but it only results in this kind of situation.

Instead of burning witch's we litigate against them, if you follow my meaning.
Society seems to think that all problems can be settled and dealt with by using a courtroom instead of a Whip, but the reality is that both are flawed, I hope that eventually society will learn to observe that which worked in the past and combine it with that which works in the present and try to evolve our systems of governance.

Even ground and balance between the different parts of human nature needs to be accepted before this kind of insane situation ends.

edit on 18-4-2012 by Raivan31 because: (no reason given)

unfortunately physical punishment can produce more bad behavior, thus becoming nothing but a vicious cycle that produces a violent adult.

i've never heard of a violent adult being produced by the intellectual approach, only if you don't do anything at all.
thus timeouts, chores, and the removal of privileges seems to be the new way to do it, because it doesn't reinforce beliefs that violence solves problems.

physical punishment most of the time was used on every child, often times on children who would have been disciplined fine by nonphysical means, and instead it did psychological damage. that is what people are afraid of now, because we know it happens!
sure a child may or may not be affected by having things taken away, but i'm not sure that the child is quite normal if they don't care about something they get taken away.

physical punishment on the other hand works on a lot less people than we really think it does IMO. mostly it just instills a seething resentment and fear of the parent, most parents don't want to be hated. of course they would rather be the childs' friend rather than a parent these days and that is a major issue as well.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


Since when did we become "detainee's"? That alone is enough to make me crap my pants, aren't detainee's the people captured in wars, with no rights??

Seriously though, this is just the beginning , it's continually getting worse, progressively faster....I can just see it now...Infant Prisons...for those 3 to 9 year old's, that just won't "follow the law".

They are grooming kids to become compliant.

Okay, I've noted a couple interesting trends across the thread. One side are the people who would find all kinds of things the school authorities should have done instead of calling a cop and other lines of thought go that any form of physical or aggressive discipline is wrong and unproductive. So... Okay, I'm lost as to what anyone COULD have done here??

As others have noted...the idea of a school official laying hands on a child in pretty much ANY form...let alone a forceful way...is a sure ticket to suspension and possible end of career. Lawsuit is a pretty good bet regardless because everyone seems to love suing the school district.

The most important thing here is where the parents are the only ..ONLY.. ones in a position to handle it. Bad behavior has to have consequence and for most of human history that has ranged from a slap upside the head to some really evil stuff. The conseqeuence has to be worse than the benefit of the behavior though. How does that work when a kid feels so much better after a good temper tantrum and all they have to worry about is a wee little 'time-out' session. Heck, they're tired by then anyway..it's almost a favor.

I'm sorry to the bleeding heart types about kids, but by 6 years old in our society today, the kids have learned that they CAN pretty much tear up a room like this and no one will DARE physically stop them or do anything of real consequence. Here, they called the cops so something COULD be done without being sued for it. Now the family is looking hard at the cops and making all kinds of nasty statements.

So what does this teach our kids?? Well jeeze.. with wimpy parents, it teaches them they live in a real life version of 'Children Of The Corn'. If they simply will it, it shall be theirs.

reply to post by milkyway12


Well, now we know what happens when we spare the rod and spoil the child.

Nothing needs to be reviewed. We need to let common sense come back into the homes and schools. The parents are too scared to discipline the kids, and the schools aren't allowed to. What do you expect?

It will get worse as the politically correct BS machine marches on. The next thing we know, all the children will be taught to call in their parents or anyone who supposedly did something wrong to them. The parents can no longer control their children, the teachers can't control them. Therefore the state needs to take over.

When your children are ready to enter into kindergarten, they will be put in state run boarding schools. You can come visit them during the weekends and during holidays. This will allow both parents to be able to work, and get off of welfare. Since the children will be in the boarding houses/schools there will be no need for foodstamps and medical. Those dollars will be directed towards the new system. Also, we will be implementing a federally mandated tax to cover the rest of the cost.

Isn't this what the TPTB want? To control every aspect of our lives? What better way than to come up with a system that scares parents into not disciplining their kids and not allowing those who watch them do so without police intervention. All in tiny steps. First they have to start making it acceptable that a six year old can get arrested. One here and one over there during a year. Next year a couple more. It builds up slowly while the mantra marches on that the teachers couldn't do anything. They tried their best to restrain them, which basically means almost nothing. They are not allowed to touch them.

It wasn't that long ago I saw a video of a teacher trying to restrain a child while the child is throwing a tantrum. What did the teacher do? Spread out her arms as if they were some type of shield, walked circles around the room trying to keep the child in front of her, and tried to talk to her. What should have the teacher done? At the very least grabbed the child, drag him over to the chair, and plant his but firmly on the chair. In the sternest and loudest voice without yelling that could be raised, tell the kid not to move. If necessary, get a coach with a whistle who knows how to yell without yelling.

Back in the day, the child would have gotten a couple of good swats in the but, sat down in the chair, and told not to move while facing a wall. That happened to me in kindergarten. As I remember I didn't like the teacher after that, but the teacher is not there to be liked, but to teach and discipline if necessary. I never got swatted again. It also served the purpose of showing others what would happen if they acted out also. No mental scars from it or therapy for years from it. Yes, the teacher was a catholic nun. They knew how to discipline. They were kind, but stern.

Want to know why you see loud and unruly kids with their parents more often? If they do anything to discipline them, someone will report it. They give a swat on the but, OMG they hit the child!!!! They will be damaged for life!!! OMG they are forcing the wailing screaming kind into the car, just because the kid want to stay for another hour, I got to call the police some type of abuse has to be happening. OMG the mom said no to a $2.00 toy!!! What is she thinking, the kid must be deprived. Report them.

This is true. A friend of mine swatted her kids hand once because he picked up a candy bar once too many times. This was after the mom repeatedly told him he no, and put it back. The last time the kid almost got the wrapper off. The cashier saw the mom slap the boys hand, took the information on the credit card she was using, and called it in. Parents are being trained to be scared of disclosing their kids.

What do you think is going to happen?

Until this trend reverses, I won't be surprised to see things getting worse.

What I am surprised at is how many people think a teacher can not handle a kid. The cops need to come in and take care of the situation. If the kid was in middle school or high school, then yes I could see there might be a problem. A 6 year old in kindergarten???? That is ludicrous.

What's next the parents having to call the cops every time the child misbehaves or throws a tantrum in their own home?

How low is society going to sink before all this insanity stops?

It would have been abuse to the other kids if they had refused to remove the threat. They couldn't lay hands on her to get her away from the others, what options were left. Maybe it is the parents maybe it's a mental thing with the girl..none of us here know for sure. If they had been able to reach the mother maybe she wouldn't have seen the cell. Where would you restrain a child that could be a threat to herself or others?. What if the bookcase fell on her or another classmate. If this was not stopped she could have been her own victim as well.
I feel for the teacher and principal...talk about a rough day at work. Damned if you do and damned if you don't

Originally posted by InnerTruths
They are grooming kids to become compliant.

Or are being grooming to act out unless the "correct" authorities show up. Aren't they being trained that they can basically get away with anything unless the person with the uniform comes for them? If TPTB want to implement martial law, they need a reason to do so. TPTB needs a generation more willing than ever to push past the limits of what the previous generations were willing to do due to their upbringing and discipline.

If this is a social experiment to get kids to behave in general so they will become compliant, then they are failing miserably.

Originally posted by PutAQuarterIn
Maybe it is the parents maybe it's a mental thing with the girl..none of us here know for sure.

Then again it could have just been a child being a child. They throw tantrums, and sometimes without rhyme or reason.

Heck if you want to medicate a child for that, then the entire teenage population needs to be medicated. If a person can't handle a child's tantrum without thinking something has to be wrong, then they sure will not be able to hand a teen's mood swings. One minute happy, next moody, next board, next angry with you, next want to play a game with me, next pouting, next lively.

Don't try to keep up. When they are angry, you can find out in a few hours or the next day they when they feel like talking that they were upset over something insignificant and dumb. It would have taken you ten years to figure out that they are angry over being told to stop playing punch buggy after a red one went by and tapped dad on the shoulder.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by lacrimaererum

 

I dont care how old she is. Hitting some one and breaking their property is wrong. At age 6 , you know hitting some one or breaking some one's 'stuff' is wrong.

As I've said before, and I'm going to keep on saying...

Until it is you that has been bashed...until it is you that has been tased...until it is you that has been unlawfully arrested, and held without charge or trial...you will continue to rationalise, justify, and make excuses as to why it is acceptable for increasing police intrusion in the lives of other people.

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
Suppose you're right.

Nowadays when a kid is extremely unruly, I reckon school should call 911, not the parents to come in right aways.

Even if its kindergarten - or pre-K?

Someone had been injured through a violent act. A school being a government agency has to call the police in a situation like this. And if the kid acted like this then calling the kids would be pretty much useless because all this oh if discipline the child it will cause trauma crap is the reason why kids are acting like this.

I have some questions. What set her off? Children do not throw tantrums - or at least not usually - unless they are told they cannot do or have something - go somewhere - participate in an activity. I am thinking and speaking as a schoolteacher.

Children these days have to contend with - who knows what at home which could include domestic violence or watching parents get drunk or stoned on any variety of drugs.

Children these days eat foods with an untold number of chemicals and additives - hardly anything fresh and mostly out of a packet. I know as I watch what Students eat at recess and lunch when I am on playground duty.

In defense of the parents - how old are these Teachers? Are they fresh out of University with lots of academic achievements but sadly lacking in life experience. Are they older and out of touch with the younger generations and think the methods of discipline from ten years ago can be applied to a generation of Children who are growing up in a completely different environment to themself?

I am still and will always be on the team that protects Children. As a Teacher I have had Students misbehave and push boundaries in any number of ways. I try to be calm and invoke communication - does not always work however I ALWAYS remember that today Children grow up with an electronic world all around them. I try my best to keep a rapport active so that when a problem occurs the Student/s will open up.

I do not always get it right but I will always try to see the point of view of the Student. Anyone wants to argue with me about handcuffing a six year old - present your arguement and I will engage in a healthy debate on why you NEVER handcuff a small Child. I am a former Police officer so I can pull on first hand experience from both sides.

I am tired of reading about Teachers calling Police to haul small Children away in the back of a Police truck and I am really tired of reading about Police who do the hauling away.

Much Peace...to all the traumatised Children in this world who may soon outnumber those who are not traumatised...

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
reply to post by milkyway12

 

Well, now we know what happens when we spare the rod and spoil the child.

Nothing needs to be reviewed. We need to let common sense come back into the homes and schools. The parents are too scared to discipline the kids, and the schools aren't allowed to. What do you expect?

It will get worse as the politically correct BS machine marches on. The next thing we know, all the children will be taught to call in their parents or anyone who supposedly did something wrong to them. The parents can no longer control their children, the teachers can't control them. Therefore the state needs to take over.

When your children are ready to enter into kindergarten, they will be put in state run boarding schools. You can come visit them during the weekends and during holidays. This will allow both parents to be able to work, and get off of welfare. Since the children will be in the boarding houses/schools there will be no need for foodstamps and medical. Those dollars will be directed towards the new system. Also, we will be implementing a federally mandated tax to cover the rest of the cost.

Isn't this what the TPTB want? To control every aspect of our lives? What better way than to come up with a system that scares parents into not disciplining their kids and not allowing those who watch them do so without police intervention. All in tiny steps. First they have to start making it acceptable that a six year old can get arrested. One here and one over there during a year. Next year a couple more. It builds up slowly while the mantra marches on that the teachers couldn't do anything. They tried their best to restrain them, which basically means almost nothing. They are not allowed to touch them.

It wasn't that long ago I saw a video of a teacher trying to restrain a child while the child is throwing a tantrum. What did the teacher do? Spread out her arms as if they were some type of shield, walked circles around the room trying to keep the child in front of her, and tried to talk to her. What should have the teacher done? At the very least grabbed the child, drag him over to the chair, and plant his but firmly on the chair. In the sternest and loudest voice without yelling that could be raised, tell the kid not to move. If necessary, get a coach with a whistle who knows how to yell without yelling.

Back in the day, the child would have gotten a couple of good swats in the but, sat down in the chair, and told not to move while facing a wall. That happened to me in kindergarten. As I remember I didn't like the teacher after that, but the teacher is not there to be liked, but to teach and discipline if necessary. I never got swatted again. It also served the purpose of showing others what would happen if they acted out also. No mental scars from it or therapy for years from it. Yes, the teacher was a catholic nun. They knew how to discipline. They were kind, but stern.

Want to know why you see loud and unruly kids with their parents more often? If they do anything to discipline them, someone will report it. They give a swat on the but, OMG they hit the child!!!! They will be damaged for life!!! OMG they are forcing the wailing screaming kind into the car, just because the kid want to stay for another hour, I got to call the police some type of abuse has to be happening. OMG the mom said no to a $2.00 toy!!! What is she thinking, the kid must be deprived. Report them.

This is true. A friend of mine swatted her kids hand once because he picked up a candy bar once too many times. This was after the mom repeatedly told him he no, and put it back. The last time the kid almost got the wrapper off. The cashier saw the mom slap the boys hand, took the information on the credit card she was using, and called it in. Parents are being trained to be scared of disclosing their kids.

What do you think is going to happen?

Until this trend reverses, I won't be surprised to see things getting worse.

What I am surprised at is how many people think a teacher can not handle a kid. The cops need to come in and take care of the situation. If the kid was in middle school or high school, then yes I could see there might be a problem. A 6 year old in kindergarten???? That is ludicrous.

What's next the parents having to call the cops every time the child misbehaves or throws a tantrum in their own home?

How low is society going to sink before all this insanity stops?

Finally someone who's looking beyond taking sides and commenting directly on the real problem at hand. And all of this just continues to reinforce that only the Police and the Government are allowed to meat out punishment. The idea of a kindergardener having a tantrum being a police matter is completely insane. That we accept all of the above stated conditions that have led to this is also.

Originally posted by LevelHeaded
reply to post by Nite_wing

 

But why was the police called in the first place? Why was she put into the cruiser? Why couldn't the school staff have handled a 6yo without police involvement?

Exactly and right on.

She was behaving so badly that not even the school could do anything.

Hence handcuffing and off to jail was the best way to go.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


Child abuse?
Maybe her parents are to blame here? how many children do this stuff in school? that girl needed some discipline it sounds like

A six year old girl in handcuff's,a little child,a little girl,this is disgusting and some people on here seem to think it could be justified, what's happened to your country America.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


What happened to the slap on the wrist? Instead of putting half a kilogram of cast iron around them?

Insanity seriously. And this aint the first time i hear this indeed, there was a thread about this not too long ago.

"I attempted to calm Johnson down," he wrote in his incident report. "Johnson then pulled away and began actively resisting and fighting with me."

WTF, you can't handle a 6yo? and the USA is supposed to trust these morons with a badge to protect them from actual criminals like armed robbers and murderers?

Whats becoming of this world.. i can only fear for our future..

reply to post by Romekje


yep, and whats really headwrecking is so many people believe this was the proper course of action.

where are we headed???