U.S. Standard of Living Has Fallen More Than 50%

reply to post by NoJoker13


Look at it this way, in 1970 a gallon of gas was around $.30, which goes into $4.00 over 33 times.

Now a gallon of gas goes for about $4.00, and average wage around $20.00, 4 goes into 20 only 5 times.

That is a huge difference in buying power. You got a lot more for that $4.00 and hour than you get now days for $20.00 an hour.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Chase that next newer ipod for all I care. Just be aware of where that road will lead you to, and don't complain when you arrive.

Seems we have been convinced to sacrifice our liberty for shiny toys. The biggest toy of them all has been the automobile, and our love for this vehicle and the seeming freedom it provides has slowly morphed us into slaves of a disposable gadget system.

At one time I had credit so good I could get anything I wanted on a mere signature. Anything. I've bought cars on a credit card. One day in the early 90's, I suddenly realized that was simply insane, closed the accounts, and shredded the cards in 1993.

I stopped driving and returned my license to the State in 2006. I finally broke down and sold the car in 2009. I've never looked back.

My last bank was BoA. I closed that account and ended the relationship in 2008. Never looked back there, either. There's nothing that bank could do for me that can't be handled by a credit union or even a quick trip to the service desk at a Walmart for cashing a check if someone insists on writing me one. I have NO accounts where other people are "holding" my money for me now.

I build my own computers, or repair second-hand ones, rather than buying new ones. I'm not big on hand-held gadgets and geegaws, especially when they are overpriced and under serviced. I believe that "texting" is what a pencil and paper are for, and that telephones are for voice conversations.

I'm not feeding them any more than I have to. It can be done if people develop the will to do so. All it takes is a determination that all the strings are only there to tie you down, and the will to not allow that.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by NoJoker13

 

Look at it this way, in 1970 a gallon of gas was around $.30, which goes into $4.00 over 33 times.

Now a gallon of gas goes for about $4.00, and average wage around $20.00, 4 goes into 20 only 5 times.

That is a huge difference in buying power. You got a lot more for that $4.00 and hour than you get now days for $20.00 an hour.

Typo. the first "3" should be a "1" .30 goes into 4.00 13 1/3 times. Still a damn sight more than the current 5x.

reply to post by nenothtu


its not just gas, look at what it costs to see a doctor. We cannot work on new vehicles do to spec tools and computer programming and food costs of food genetically modified to be hormone retainers

reply to post by romanmel


The 1970ties was also the time when Texas oil fields ran dry, and the energy crisis became the biggest problem our nation had faced in a while, and remains the biggest problem. This has a lot more to do with the decline in wages than the yellow gold standard.

This was further accompanied by a denial of reality. People still wanted their big muscle cars, and our auto industry failed to make changes to deal with the problem.

Rather than starting to retool our infrastructure into a more energy efficient system, we went the opposite way, concentrating the labor market into suburban areas, creating suburban sprawl, giant rat mazes where we drove longer and longer distances, wasting a great deal of our time stuck in traffic jams, which was great profit for the oil companies, the automobile companies, insurance, bankers. Of course this also pushed the price of homes through the ceiling. The choices were, go deeply into debt to buy a home near where you worked, or buy a home out far a way, and commute long distances daily. Either way, you were screwed, and the bankers at the top of the pyramid made out.

Black Gold has been the main driving economic factor since the adolescence of the industrial age. Crude oil production is very centralized, with relatively small numbers of large oil wells producing most of the black gold, which makes it easy to control by the elites. From what I have read, if the U.S. did not import oil, we would have a trade surplus. Our consumption of oil is ridiculously astronomical. The reason we consume so much oil is because our infrastructure has been set up to force us to consume all that oil.

We have the tech available for a far more efficient, and far safer transportation system, that at the same time would give us more freedom, but that would not be good for profits, so the PTB has thwarted all efforts to create such a system. Funny how those who claim to love our country so much have worked so hard to destroy it.

What this tells us is that the people behind the PTB aren't all that clever. In fact, the people pulling the strings are down right stupid, unless maybe they are trying to make our planet a whole lot less desirable to an alien invasion. Rather than setting up a system where the oil reserves would be used up at a much slower rate, insuring themselves a much longer control of the worlds richest resources, they greedily pushed demand as high as possible, for the greatest wealth, at the sacrifice of longer term control.

Oil is a finite resource. Sure, oil will always be around, but it will not be concentrated in giant reserves easily controlled by the few, and it will not be so easy to extract, or refine. As the oil runs out, and our planets large oil reserves are currently in decline, market economics will force change. They can defy the law of supply and demand, but eventually it will win out. Alternative, more efficient, less centrally controlled energy systems will eventually win out, and this will be very good for the common person with talents at doing physical things in this world, and bad for the bureaucrats.

reply to post by nenothtu


Thanks, I totally miscalculated that one.

Sounds like you have done a good job of getting off the grid. I am currently stuck in suburbia, but I would like to go in your direction.

I say the US build's some big ship's in space enough for the US population if you are willing to live and work together on the ship's and get away from all this crud on this planet then away you go. Money won't matter so much. Maybe I'm dreaming a little but I'm sure we are getting close to doing this. But we will never be told the truth about our technology. I think that would be great to seek out planets and resources.

The rothschild/illuminati/bankers are all-pervasive, meaning, there is nowhere you can go to escape this.
Not on this planet.

The good news is, they're as inept as they are corrupt.

Like the dollar beng printed out of control, life has lost it's value.
'Quantitative Easing' is counterfeiting, and don't think other countries don't recognize it. Why do you think nobody wants the dollar anymore?

Breeding out of control (where we are now) is irresponsible, and shows contempt for the planet, society, and the child.

Still not enough to make me embrace communism, or speed racer.

Yes, the spelling is childish and inappropriate.

Get off your ass and send Dr. Paul some $$$ if you want to fix this.

U.S. Standard of Living Has Fallen More Than 50%:

I don't doubt it. Gas prices holding as high as they have for as long as they have. That's what caused most of the problems to begin with, if you ask me. It takes any extra money that families have so they don't have any money to spend on anything else.

The CEO of my company got a raise this year.... business is a booming.... we had layoffs to make that happen.. they raised healthcare premiums to give us a pay cut to boot!

Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by nenothtu

 

its not just gas, look at what it costs to see a doctor. We cannot work on new vehicles do to spec tools and computer programming and food costs of food genetically modified to be hormone retainers

I've cut doctors out of my diet, too, so I really don't know what they cost these days. The last time I saw one was several years ago at an urgent care facility, to have a wedding band cut off of my finger after an accident. the Boss found me cutting it off with a pair of tin snips, and insisted I let a doctor do it instead, his treat. The doctor didn't do anything differently than I would have, except that he used a different gadget to cut off the ring, and I think MY stitches would have been prettier than HIS were!

As i said above, I gave up my car, so gas for it and working on it are someone else's headaches. Gas prices impact me still in food prices, though, as does the GMO foods. I'm not currently living in a place where I can raise my own, but I'm working towards fixing THAT problem, too.

Last time I had to work on the electronics of a car, I didn't worry about programming it, I just yanked out the electronics and replaced them, same as i do with the faulty circuitry that some times develops in computers.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Thanks, I totally miscalculated that one.

Sounds like you have done a good job of getting off the grid. I am currently stuck in suburbia, but I would like to go in your direction.

I'm in an urban area right now, on the "wrong" side of town. I'm here because I can walk wherever I need to go, but there is a rural environment in my future where I won't need to go anywhere I can't walk. Same mechanism, different rationale.

I grew up in the boonies, and walked everywhere. Back then, 10 miles wasn't nothing but a thing to me, and I could do it in about 2 hours or just a shade over. I'm older and slower now, but find that I'm not in as big a hurry, so it evens out.

I have grand plans for a water-powered generator, along the lines of a mill-wheel to turn the coils to get my power from, to get independent of the electric company, and wood heat. There will still be a few bills that I can't cut out, like communications costs (unless I just decide to stop talking to people ) and land taxes, but my goal is to minimize my societal footprint rather than eliminating it altogether.

Originally posted by JanAmosComenius

Originally posted by Another10Pin
reply to post by JanAmosComenius

 

I just don't understand how anyone can continue to be partisan about this stuff. From where I have been sitting during my life, there are economic and legal systems that have been put in place that have been, and still are, maintained by both parties - and they do not exist to maintain a working democratic-capitalistic (properly regulated) society. Nothing has changed in 30 years except the refinement and strengthening of these policies. Our government, in my opinion, is not representative of the people. They are representative of the corporations and the wealthiest Americans. Oh well, my two cents.

edit on 2012/4/17 by Another10Pin because: Oops. I made a mistake and am now covering my tracks!

I agree with you wholeheartedly. As in USA Democrats and Republicans are in Czech republic SocDem and ODS two faces of one rotten head. They fight on unimportant points distracting public debate from fundamental topics. Both faces serve same criminal mafia.

It's the old divide and conquer routine.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Chase that next newer ipod for all I care. Just be aware of where that road will lead you to, and don't complain when you arrive.

Seems we have been convinced to sacrifice our liberty for shiny toys. The biggest toy of them all has been the automobile, and our love for this vehicle and the seeming freedom it provides has slowly morphed us into slaves of a disposable gadget system.

At one time I had credit so good I could get anything I wanted on a mere signature. Anything. I've bought cars on a credit card. One day in the early 90's, I suddenly realized that was simply insane, closed the accounts, and shredded the cards in 1993.

I stopped driving and returned my license to the State in 2006. I finally broke down and sold the car in 2009. I've never looked back.

My last bank was BoA. I closed that account and ended the relationship in 2008. Never looked back there, either. There's nothing that bank could do for me that can't be handled by a credit union or even a quick trip to the service desk at a Walmart for cashing a check if someone insists on writing me one. I have NO accounts where other people are "holding" my money for me now.

I build my own computers, or repair second-hand ones, rather than buying new ones. I'm not big on hand-held gadgets and geegaws, especially when they are overpriced and under serviced. I believe that "texting" is what a pencil and paper are for, and that telephones are for voice conversations.

I'm not feeding them any more than I have to. It can be done if people develop the will to do so. All it takes is a determination that all the strings are only there to tie you down, and the will to not allow that.

Man, I want to be where you are now. I hope in a few years I will be.

reply to post by Another10Pin


It would be good, I believe, if everyone could get to this place - or beyond - but I understand that a lot of people simply can't. It's not for everyone, and I give up a lot of convenience to do it. Convenience has never been high on my list of priorities, but a lot of people nowadays in developed countries think it is some sort of birthright.

If enough people could get here, and they thought MORE might stampede this way, I believe it would get someone's attention, and force some degree of change in an effort to stem the perceived tide. As long as they think they can keep getting away with it, they will try, and the vast majority feeding that beast are feeding their own destruction unwittingly.

It may even be best if they snap their own handcuffs shut like that, so long as there are enough left keeping the passageway out clear. I still say it's greed causing it, and con men will tell you that greedy people are the easiest marks - they jump onto the hook practically of their own volition. There are NO bigger con men than the people who have fed the greed of the masses only to harvest the fat off of them. They walk willingly to their own shearing, thinking that there is something in it for them, and then act surprised when they find their reward has locks and chains.

reply to post by nenothtu


I am thinking, why not use a wind mill to to store energy in compressed air. Then when the wind dies down, use the compressed air to drive a generator. You would have two windmills, one driving a generator, and the other driving a compressor.

That is the real answer, turn back to our rural roots, a nation of farmers and cottage industry. With automation, we don't need giant corporations anymore. When the oil industry dies, the big auto industry should die as well. Electric pneumatic cars designed to last a life time could be built in a small warehouse. Without big industry we wouldn't have any need for these enormous power generation facilities, except to support the cities, which should shrink considerably as well. There are only a few industries where large factories are needed. Even steel mills these days are fairly small operations.

Then they couldn't export our jobs overseas, and besides, shipping costs will get to be too high then.

Jesus christ, we need a republican right now to # up some more

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Another10Pin

 

It would be good, I believe, if everyone could get to this place - or beyond - but I understand that a lot of people simply can't. It's not for everyone, and I give up a lot of convenience to do it. Convenience has never been high on my list of priorities, but a lot of people nowadays in developed countries think it is some sort of birthright.

If enough people could get here, and they thought MORE might stampede this way, I believe it would get someone's attention, and force some degree of change in an effort to stem the perceived tide. As long as they think they can keep getting away with it, they will try, and the vast majority feeding that beast are feeding their own destruction unwittingly.

It may even be best if they snap their own handcuffs shut like that, so long as there are enough left keeping the passageway out clear. I still say it's greed causing it, and con men will tell you that greedy people are the easiest marks - they jump onto the hook practically of their own volition. There are NO bigger con men than the people who have fed the greed of the masses only to harvest the fat off of them. They walk willingly to their own shearing, thinking that there is something in it for them, and then act surprised when they find their reward has locks and chains.

It's strange. I spent so many years on that little effing hamster wheel, spinning ... spinning ... spinning. I eventually jumped off of my own accord, but by the time I did, I was an older man and the world had changed ... I had not even noticed. To tell the truth, I can no longer see the country in which I grew up. The blame is two fold, I think. There's for implementing the system and mine for jumping on it without question. Although, I do feel like I have some redemption ... I was a young fool when I did it!

As far as convenience, due to my background, I have never really needed or wanted it. All for the wife and kids, or to stay employed. The only thing it did was insulate them, soften me, and cost me more money than I care to admit to. The problem is, I got plugged in and have been plugged in for so long it's difficult to unplug ... If you can understand what I am saying. But sometime ago, when I came to realize exactly what has been occurring, I have been trying to maneuver myself into position to cut most, if not all, of those chains of bondage. And man, let no one make the mistake ... They are chains of bondage.

Retraining into something I can use anytime and anywhere. Ditching as much useless clutter that I can get my hands on. Starting to educate myself about food production and alternative power sources. I only have a couple of things left to do, a couple of big chains still around me. But man, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel ....

Just hoping it ain't the train!

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I am thinking, why not use a wind mill to to store energy in compressed air. Then when the wind dies down, use the compressed air to drive a generator. You would have two windmills, one driving a generator, and the other driving a compressor.

That is the real answer, turn back to our rural roots, a nation of farmers and cottage industry. With automation, we don't need giant corporations anymore. When the oil industry dies, the big auto industry should die as well. Electric pneumatic cars designed to last a life time could be built in a small warehouse. Without big industry we wouldn't have any need for these enormous power generation facilities, except to support the cities, which should shrink considerably as well. There are only a few industries where large factories are needed. Even steel mills these days are fairly small operations.

Then they couldn't export our jobs overseas, and besides, shipping costs will get to be too high then.

I was thinking a lot about storage of energy. Batteries are expensive, requires maintenance, have relatively short life span. Compressed air is good solution. I read about some small company/individual who use ship containers for this purpose. They equip container with tubing and vents, spray inside of container with some isolation foam and then bury it under your yard. Potentially best way how to fill the container is solar Sterling engine which convert heat to pressure - heat sink of engine is in focus of parabolic mirror, all mounted on heliostat. It is basically inverted compressor. But you can use any other source of energy to feed ordinary compressor. Many models of heavy machinery use pressurized air as energy source so you do not loose energy during transformation. It is relatively cheap and save way how to store large amounts of energy.

I moved from city some 7 years ago. With friends we bought small house where I'm living now, others use it as weekend house. At least I gained some skills how to take care about house and garden. With deteriorating economic and financial situation I advised my parents to get out from investment funds and buy sustainable house at country with piece of land. I took many aspects into account when I was looking for the house: overall temperatures, precipitation, density of population, water availability and quality, quality and disposition of soil, pollution by large industry, risk of flooding, natural resources (forests, eco-diversity) ... It took long time but now I'm satisfied. In two month I'm moving there

Many people of my generation do the same or similar. It starts to be trend. They usually do not have any exact rationale behind theirs decisions, just feeling that it is right thing to do. Local networks of like minded people will start to emerge and will provide base for "new" economy models based on barter and token schemes. Even if current global economy will be miraculously resuscitated it is good way of life - at least for me.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I am thinking, why not use a wind mill to to store energy in compressed air. Then when the wind dies down, use the compressed air to drive a generator. You would have two windmills, one driving a generator, and the other driving a compressor.

That was another option I've considered. It's a mountainous area, and wind always flows across the ridges - up from the valleys in the evenings, down in the mornings. A windmill or two in combination with an inverter and a couple of deep-cycle batteries would probably do the trick. I don't require much electricity - just enough to run a couple of small things, not floodlights or anything like that.

I had considered solar, but cells for electricity are still too expensive for any large scale. Solar could be used to good effect for heating water, however, which would reduce the load on other energy sources. It's a pretty simple do-it-yourself project - coils of tubing painted black, snaked through a box with a plexiglas face and black-painted interior, stored in insulated tanks and convection-circulated.

That is the real answer, turn back to our rural roots, a nation of farmers and cottage industry. With automation, we don't need giant corporations anymore. When the oil industry dies, the big auto industry should die as well. Electric pneumatic cars designed to last a life time could be built in a small warehouse. Without big industry we wouldn't have any need for these enormous power generation facilities, except to support the cities, which should shrink considerably as well. There are only a few industries where large factories are needed. Even steel mills these days are fairly small operations.

That's the idea I have. Mostly local production. You make or grow what you can for yourself, with some overage for trade and the like, then trade either your produce, your skills, or your labor locally for stuff they can produce that you can't. YOU set your prices between the two of you, and forego the use of cash. Can't eat cash. There would, of course, still be some amount of cash in circulation for outside trading where direct barter is impractical, and for taxes and the like (I can just see the county courthouse getting inundated with chickens and hogs on Tax Day! ), but with nowhere near the necessity it has now in most people's lives.

Small scale metal production can be handled locally in many rural localities. They used to have what they called "bloomeries" in the Appalachians where local iron ore was smelted into iron, then combined with carbon to make steel in forges. It would be sufficient in many areas for farm tools, rifles, carpentry hand tools, and the like, I think, if it could ever be ressurrected. Probably not enough for large machinery, though.

Transportation would be the choke point for many. Not everyone is willing or able to go on long walks or horseback or wagon. In some cases, it becomes a matter of genetics, and in others it's just neighbors looking out for neighbors. When I was a kid, I walked about everywhere I needed to go, and if someone needed me to pick something up, I carried it back for them. We especially looked out for old people, since they weren't as mobile any more in most cases. My great great so many greats back grandad walked about 125 miles in his 90's just to "ferret out a land title" at a distant claim office, but that was then and this is now. People aren't acclimated to it any more, and he'd been active like that all his days.

My dad, even up until he died in the 1990's, specialized in doing carpentry work for old folks who couldn't afford a regular contracting company.He didn't need much to get by, and passed that on. I've seen him turn down any money at all, and walk away with a jar of green beans that an old lady insisted that he take something for re-building her stairs on an easier pitch for an old lady to climb. Old folks can't lift their feet as high, and so require shorter risers on their stairs.

That's about it. Do what you can for yourself, and what you can for your neighbors. It pays off eventually.

Then they couldn't export our jobs overseas, and besides, shipping costs will get to be too high then.

Exactly. When YOU are your own boss, YOU decide if your job goes overseas. If YOU set the prices, and decide that what they're selling isn't worth what they're charging, either their prices drop, or they go out of business. Going overseas won't help them. Letting YOUR prices be set by some concupiscent jackass a thousand miles away in an office on Wall Street makes no sense to me at all.