Negative Points - I'm in debt??? Am I a problem for ATS?

After doing well here at ATS I suddenly had 2 posts that got me a warning and a violation. Suddenly I see my profile has negative points.

This is very frustrating because I've put a lot of effort into my posts here at ATS - and think I've added value. The posts in question were "innuendo" not directly against the T&Cs and thus I was actually surprised to receive the penalties I received.

Is it common to be in debt for points? Should I just go away and consider myself rejected and useless to ATS? After all isn't that the meaning of points? Value to ATS=negative? Thus am I a problem here? I realize certain truths of perspectives that are prohibited - where I seemed to get in trouble was the hint of those truths rather than just avoiding those topics completely.

i don't know whether to feel shame, failure, anger, or violated.... somehow I feel dirty. And being in the hole for points after all that work --- it feels hopeless. Like a maxed out credit card or something. As though I've got nothing left to pay with.

Anyone got any advice? Am I really a negative value to ATS? If so I can go away - or be sent away - though that's not my hope. I would hope instead for a less severe penalty for a first time 'mistake'.

reply to post by reitze


From an old old thread search result, here's what I know about how to earn points... its why with just over 400 posts... a 1000 point deduction seems a near impossible debt. It says that I won't make it back to 0 for a long long time.

Quote (since the thread's from 2004):

Originally posted by SimonGray

Earning points on ATS is easy, here's how:

Points:
Every member accumulates ATS Points as you post in our forums. The intent of the points system on our forums is to provide a more meaningful measure of your contribution to the community than simple post-count. The simple idea being, that active members who do well to participate in collaborative discussions that contribute to the goals of building our communities, will accumulate impressive point totals.

Points are credited to you in the following ways (from lowest to highest).

Posting: Each time you post in an ATS, BTS, or PTS forum, you gain One Point.

Getting Replies: If you author an active thread, this means you've generally done well to contribute to the community. You earn Two Points for each reply to your thread.

Receiving Applause: Our staff (moderators, council members, and forum subject matter experts) have the ability to applaud posts we feel offer an excellent contribution to the discussion, or our community. You earn 250 points for each applause you receive.

Participating in research, fiction, and debates: These generally earn very high points, as each post in a debate can be worth 250 points, or more if you win your debate.

try not to let this affect you on a personal level. it's the internet. it doesn't reflect on who you are as a person. if you're feeling all these negative, self-critical things just because of this then it may be time to log off for a while.

You just got a point penalty for something. I haven't reviewed your posting history, but I think your very concern over it shows that you will do better in the future. Meh, don't worry about it. Move on with your posting. Argue, but be nice.

The question is why do you value points so much that can't be used for anything other than self gratification.

I don't know why people worry so much about points, flags and stars. You can't do anything with them!

I wouldn't let it bother you. Just don't do the things you got dinged for again. I've been dinged too in my time on here. I freaked a few times but then I realized it doesn't really matter in the long run.

You didn't really register with this web site for the points, did you? I have no idea how many points I have - I honestly haven't checked, and I've been a member since last summer.

I haven't even started a thread yet - and I may never. I just like to read what's on here, and sometimes I feel inclined to post. I wouldn't let the points thing get to you. Just don't get banned.

Originally posted by reitze
i don't know whether to feel shame, failure, anger, or violated.... somehow I feel dirty. And being in the hole for points after all that work --- it feels hopeless. Like a maxed out credit card or something. As though I've got nothing left to pay with.

Woah there guy...It's the interenet. Nothing to lose sleep over with emotions such as shame, failure, anger, etc...

I saw one of the threads where you got a warning, and although I'm not 100% sure what you said, I have a feeling I got the context from your follow up post, and although you may not have violated the T&C's, I'm sure there was a reasoning behind it.

There are lines here at ATS that can be crossed, both obvious and subtle. In time you will see. But in the mean time, just remember this: If it doesn't directly add to the discussion in a constructive way, without having to resort to innuendo, sarcasm or whatever, it's probably best to not post it, Sure, things might fall through the cracks every now and then, but sometimes they dont, and you find yourself docked of points (which are pointless BTW. Who judges posters by their points?)

In the rare instances I've had posts removed, I kind of figured that the might have been iffy...even slightly, but posted them anyway, and sure enough, they were removed. Lessons learned. If you feel it might be a violation, even a small iffy one, why even post it?

Negative points don't hurt you unless you have a pattern of "bad" behavior, in which case they could be used to justify banning you. You haven't posted much here, so a couple of 1,000 point violations make you have negative points. Other than what I just said, points no longer have any value. They don't feed into K or W scores and don't even appear on your posts any more. They are the least visible of the scoring systems used here. It used to be that points had value as an online currency because you could "buy" stuff like avatar colored backgrounds or access to Really Above Top Secret. During those days a point subtractions could be considered a fine because you lost purchasing power. these days it doesn't much matter. Points may be used in future upgrades. No one knows what will come of them.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
The question is why do you value points so much that can't be used for anything other than self gratification.

I don't know why people worry so much about points, flags and stars. You can't do anything with them!

I wouldn't let it bother you. Just don't do the things you got dinged for again. I've been dinged too in my time on here. I freaked a few times but then I realized it doesn't really matter in the long run.

The reason is that points-value is supposed to represent my value to ATS. The dissapointment is that after all the effort to make ATS better I suddenly have a negative value per their scoring system.

Sure its not personal... but I've been kicked off a blog or 2 in the past where the "mob mentality" was favored over the value of the truth (ie: "I've got the greatest guitar ever yet built").

I really don't know if the points score is how its seen here - but with a negative score I suddenly feel like all that work was for nothing... no value here. I seem to be seen in a bad light. If that's the truth of it - well the ATS staff have that prerogative since they OWN it. But if not, my hope in posting this thread is that they might consider a more gradual point-reduction system. After all, 1000 points off for 1 post has erased my whole duration of contributions here with over 400 posts, 12 threads, and lots of stars. I do believe I've added value here - and 1 mistake via innuendo... ouch. So I do hope my POV with honest expression of it is HELPFUL to ATS staff/mods.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be reductions, etc... but 1000 points off from 1 post seems so extreme that it will eliminate my 'speaking freely' sooo much that rather than commenting/dialoging on things it motivates a drop-out just lurk only or go somewhere else feeling. Other than this experience that's not been my impression of ATS.

reply to post by reitze


Really dont worry about it one bit. Its just learning in which ways you can express yourself on ATS. Your negative point score is small. I had a much bigger one once. You are of value to ATS. Forget about the points for a while and just enjoy sharing information and try and stay within the terms and conditions...

Originally posted by Juston

Originally posted by reitze
i don't know whether to feel shame, failure, anger, or violated.... somehow I feel dirty. And being in the hole for points after all that work --- it feels hopeless. Like a maxed out credit card or something. As though I've got nothing left to pay with.

Woah there guy...It's the interenet. Nothing to lose sleep over with emotions such as shame, failure, anger, etc...
...
Who judges posters by their points?)

Easy for you to say. I'm an engineer who's used the internet from its beginning. I do my best to promote the TRUTH - and that's often hated by TPTB... but when its my own mistake that gets me in trouble... those FEEL the worst.

As far as points - per the description of them that's supposedly how ATS judges posters. So with a negative it makes me wonder if I'm only a time-delay away from a ban? Or is there a tolerance threshold? if so what, -100? -1000? -5000? At what point is someone banned? I don't even know - all I know is 1 post got a deduction... the other a "warning". NEITHER violated rules directly - but humor/inuendo... well its nothing like walking across mine fields unless you value your place within the community.

And yea, I DO value my place within the ATS community... even with my own name in the open. I'm not running for office - but I do stand for the truth (as perceived by ME).

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by reitze

 

Really dont worry about it one bit. Its just learning in which ways you can express yourself on ATS. Your negative point score is small. I had a much bigger one once. You are of value to ATS. Forget about the points for a while and just enjoy sharing information and try and stay within the terms and conditions...

Thanks. Though that simply demonstrates I'm not the only one. Why have "points" if they have no meaning? The 2nd post I shared the ATS stated meaning/definition.

So I interpret you post here as 2 fold.

1. Not the only one - the points system isn't working as defined (2nd'ing my reason to post this thread here)
2. don't FEEL bad, you have value, keep on doin what your doin (thanks)

Thanks, and thanks.

Originally posted by reitze
After doing well here at ATS I suddenly had 2 posts that got me a warning and a violation. Suddenly I see my profile has negative points.

This is very frustrating because I've put a lot of effort into my posts here at ATS - and think I've added value. The posts in question were "innuendo" not directly against the T&Cs and thus I was actually surprised to receive the penalties I received.

Is it common to be in debt for points? Should I just go away and consider myself rejected and useless to ATS? After all isn't that the meaning of points? Value to ATS=negative? Thus am I a problem here? I realize certain truths of perspectives that are prohibited - where I seemed to get in trouble was the hint of those truths rather than just avoiding those topics completely.

i don't know whether to feel shame, failure, anger, or violated.... somehow I feel dirty. And being in the hole for points after all that work --- it feels hopeless. Like a maxed out credit card or something. As though I've got nothing left to pay with.

Anyone got any advice? Am I really a negative value to ATS? If so I can go away - or be sent away - though that's not my hope. I would hope instead for a less severe penalty for a first time 'mistake'.

Reitze
You know, I don't know you personaly and I have never engaged in direct conversation with you but I have read many of your posts and responses to others here on ATS.

My impression is that you are a well educated individual who makes valid and valuable contributions on this site often with a touch of humour. I have witnessed no malice from you and I respect you and many of your ideals.

Points mean nothing to me, I never check to see how many points any member has or hasn't got.

My only advice is to continue doing what you do best by continuing to make great contributions to the community!

I know what it feels like to have points deducted as it has happened to me also in the past, for perhaps being a little too honest, yet I see other members acting and stating things far worse than my crime with no penalty.

It can be upsetting true, but just get back up, brush down and carry on being the good person that you are

How could anyone feel shame for having negative points on a website.... shows a lot about your character. Wah....

Originally posted by reitze

The reason is that points-value is supposed to represent my value to ATS. The dissapointment is that after all the effort to make ATS better I suddenly have a negative value per their scoring system.

I really don't know if the points score is how its seen here - but with a negative score I suddenly feel like all that work was for nothing... no value here. I seem to be seen in a bad light.

Guy, let's be frank here. That's WAY too much drama. Relax. Nobody ever sees your points unless they intentionally look at your profile. Look, you've managed to make over 400 posts here. That's great. Thanks for the contribution. But, frankly again, that's not a lot. No one is going to intenionally devalue you here, but don't expect to be coddled, either. You're nearly 50 years old. We shouldn't have to stroke your ego.

A lot of people blow off the points and stars system, and that's fine. I use it once in awhile as a very general indicator of level of contribution. If I see someone who has 10,000 posts and a Wats score of 75, then I think maybe I might pay attention to what they have to say a little closer because they've been here a good long while and rewarded for substantial contributuions to the site. That's all.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
The question is why do you value points so much that can't be used for anything other than self gratification.

I don't know why people worry so much about points, flags and stars. You can't do anything with them!

I wouldn't let it bother you. Just don't do the things you got dinged for again. I've been dinged too in my time on here. I freaked a few times but then I realized it doesn't really matter in the long run.

I'm replying from my own experience here, not putting words in the mouth of the OP.

I do understand what you're saying and I do agree with you. Until having just read the above information, I had no idea how "points" were accumulated.

What I did know was that one day I had a few hundred and the next -100, all due to something very benign. Nothing against T&C.

There were only two things that bothered me about it:

1. I was labelled a "political troll" by a mod here. (I won't get into that diatribe again, but suffice to say I respectfully disagree I am anything like that)

2. My -100 point standing was later "referenced" by another member here, in a thread as an "example" of some kind of ATS miscreant.

Point 1, I can take sitting down. Point 2 made me quite angry.

IMO this is how these kinds of points and ratings systems do more harm than good. And as you said, they are really meaningless so what's the point of having them? Especially considering the inherent abuse that can and does invariably occur within such a system.

That's all I have to say about it.

OP, try not to take it too personally. It doesn't help, and it's not going to change anything. Peace

It is actually based on several various factors. I think when they discovered that your "avatar" was in fact your senior year high school yearbook picture that sealed your fate. That of course is just my theory.

Originally posted by KaiserSoze
It is actually based on several various factors. I think when they discovered that your "avatar" was in fact your senior year high school yearbook picture that sealed your fate. That of course is just my theory.

At what point is someone banned?

I could educate you on that

reply to post by reitze


You've got -75 points your reputation is definitely ruined on this forum.

Count Chocula

ATS Points: - 3639

Note the "expressed emotions" were "initial feelings of rejection" with some exaggeration... based upon thinking that a negative points measurement appeared to be a pending ban. And yea exaggeration via words/nubmers is a normal method for expressing them.

Like I've told you a MILLION TIMES...

400+ posts may not seem like a lot, but it does represent effort. 1 post costing 1000 points - negating ALL that effort seems harsh. Like swatting a fly with a sledge hammer.