Is suicide a human right?

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by petrus4
According to my own definition of what a right is, suicide probably also couldn't be considered a right; because I define rights as things which an individual needs in order to maintain life. The entire purpose of suicide is to end life.

Is taking a walk in the park not a right? What about going for a swim at the beach? How about playing hide-and-seek with your child? Or listening to your favourite song? Are these things not rights, even though they are not needed to maintain life?

This is where it gets tricky; and becomes problematic from the point of view that you have special interest groups, who will try and maneuvre you into a position of redefining a right as, not only being that which ensures biological survival, but also psychological wellbeing. The reason why they want to do that, is because they know that psychological wellbeing is much more slippery and less quantifiable than physical survival, so it is easier for them to use that to justify getting what they want declared as a right.

As an example; I'm not sexually active, personally, and I'm not going to die as a result of that. Someone who wants to be sexually active, however, to a greater degree than the level at which they care about the potential social consequences, will likely try and claim that sex is a human right, purely because by doing so, they can get what they want.

In my own mind, however, having sex is not a human right, because a person isn't going to die without it. They are not going to directly die physically, and they are not necessarily going to reach a psychological point...if they have a reasonable degree of self-control...where depression due to celibacy threatens their physical survival, either. Sex is a want, not a need.

Is killing yourself a right?

Well, I dont think that the person who did do it really cares about that. His problems are over at that point.

I seen many people quit the game. Left everything behind, and left everyone to pick up where they left off.


It all depends on your belief system and what you have learned over the years. If life was easy- what would be the point in living?

I just lost a friend to suicide. In my mind- it is more selfish than cowardly.
People sometimes cant see why life is meant to be lived, even when its staring them right in the face(wife-kids-hampster).

Personal Responsibility. We cant protect each other from ourselves.

reply to post by petrus4

Sez you! Here is a case where you and I have a difference of opinion of what is LIVING or being alive. To me...to truly be ALIVE...one must become more than a bunch of cells getting along. Just to be alive is not enough for the Human Condition. If this is all you retain...then you are Dead already. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by petrus4

 

Sez you! Here is a case where you and I have a difference of opinion of what is LIVING or being alive. To me...to truly be ALIVE...one must become more than a bunch of cells getting along. Just to be alive is not enough for the Human Condition. If this is all you retain...then you are Dead already. Split Infinity

Yes, but this, as I said, is the problem. It opens floodgates which some can exploit. Where do you draw the line?

That is the question.

reply to post by Skepticesque


I've had this conversation at times with people.. and it always leads to discussion of being able to have someone assist you in a vegetable state. Yes, in those cases, if your wishes are known that you would not want to carry on in that state.. no problem from me, BUT.. that isn't suicide. Suicide is the taking of your own life by your own doing. Should it be a right? Sure. Why not? but just something to think about.. with or without government permission.. you can do it. Do I value human life? yes.. and death is only a stage of life.. with it's own value.

reply to post by petrus4


I agree with what you are saying about special interest groups. Also, it can be a slippery slope when talking about rights in relation to psychological well-being. However, I disagree with your definition of what constitutes a right.

Let me ask you this, do you consider playing WOW a right? If not, then why do you play it? Does everything you do come down to survival?

reply to post by Skepticesque


suicide is an individual human right and shouldn't even be "evaluated" in terms of "timing" ("it was too soon") or "reasons". when it's my time to do it i'm not going to ask anyone for permission. I'll leave some form of "justification" but only to avoid having those whom i love searching for "reasons": i'll feed them some so they can sleep at night

oh, and i really don't need people with an imaginary friend telling me that the imaginary friend doesn't like my act.

Is suicide a human right?,

Yes. Totally. Completely. OF COURSE it is.
There may or may not be spiritual consequences to taking part in suicide.
But that's a whole different issue. YES it's our right. The End.

You are a bonded slave so really it is not your right to destroy government property.

Originally posted by Skepticesque
I know this is a topic of quite some controversy, therefore I'm interested in hearing what you all have to say. I'm a firm believer that we all have the right to end our lives if we feel it is our only option. I think certain people end their lives far too early, and for reasons that aren't always permanent. That being said, I defend an adult's right to end their lives if that is what they feel they must do.

I don't think suicide is usually an act of cowardice. People who call those who kill themselves from depression cowardly have clearly never experienced what excessive depression is like. It takes enormous amounts of courage to gain the strength to go against every instinctual urge you're programmed to have. I think every situation is circumstantial, therefore I won't say that all suicides aren't cowardly, nor will I say that all suicides aren't selfish.

The question I'm posing is this: is suicide a human right? I believe we're put on this earth without an option and we should be able to dictate when we leave it. Some will say that it is God's decision and not our own, and to that I say to each his own.

edit on 14-4-2012 by Skepticesque because: (no reason given)

I have been there myself and wanting just not to exist here anymore and had a weekend where I did everything to escape. Even nonexistance seemed ok for me as long as I got away from the pain and I did not belive in afterlife at all. It was not my time to go yeet. In one way I killed a part of me that was the ego temporarily and found information and clarity. It is not for others to judge what is right or wrong for you in this case, if you are only suffering and medication is not the solution if you do not want it. Depression is a natural response on the conditioning from the system around us and the feeling of being disconnected from everything. Some people will experiance this as a part of their evolution. They are meant to be suicidal to be able to let go of ego and wants and to find something more. If it is your time is between you and god/One/source and nobody else has the right to judge.

I believe it absolutely should be, of course, it's your body.

BUT

More importantly...


Why do people want to take their own lives?


It should be up to fellow Human Beings to look out for people and be there and help each other when someone feels so low, lost or hopeless that they wish to take their own life.


The legal issue I agree with, It absolutely should be up to the person...

My point is more that nobody should ever get to that point.... people should be able to help and support anyone who feels suicidal to the point of them not wishing to take their life any more.

Originally posted by petrus4
The law is irrelevant where suicide is concerned, because an individual cannot be penalised after they've committed the act.

According to my own definition of what a right is, suicide probably also couldn't be considered a right; because I define rights as things which an individual needs in order to maintain life. The entire purpose of suicide is to end life.

I agree, but I'd add that a human right should be considerd that which maintains a happy life.

Your thread has little to do with suicide. This thread is more about the right to die (DR, Assisted Suicide) and euthanasia, completely different topics.

If it was solely about suicide, the legal argument would be mute, what are they going to do, let your remains stand trial?

I personally think any assisted suicide is wrong, as the person assisting you does not have as much to lose.

I think euthanasia is out of the question. We spend our lives advancing medicine to prolong life, quantity, over the quality of life, then when it becomes unbearable, want to off the person we artificially kept alive past the time they would have died naturally?

My father has a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) Order and living will, directing us to pull the plug on life support if there is no hope for quality of life. The DNR Order also means that there are to be no drastic life saving measures taken if he is to suffer a heart attack or something similar. My father's instructions to me are to please comfort him, basically, he wants to go in my, or my brothers arms.

Except for very exceptional cases, I think suicide is, callous, and selfish.

I have been through too much in my life where suicide would have been "the easy way out" and made it through.

Of course in a situation where they have an deteriorating illness in which a year from now their quality of life will be so poor that death seems a better option, then of course.

But in a situation where someone wants to take their live due to depression, lets try to stop that. Because there are people out there who can change their mind, and bring them back to a happier state of mind. It's a selfish form of suicide too.

Overall though, in the right circumstance, of course suicide is your choice.

I think suicide is not a human right. Because I think thought of ending ones own life is not consistent, and it hurts others too, for life. But on the other hand, I think if we're destined to do such thing, there's no stop to it, so every single act anyone ever does must be a right, because simply it's destined to happen. Then not making the suicide a human right would again be destined to happen. Wait, what the...

To first understand what you are asking, I think it would be beneficial to post the dictionary definition of what a human right is:

human rights
pl.n.
The basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are entitled, often held to include the right to life and liberty, freedom of thought and expression, and equality before the law.

I believe that suicide is not only a human right, but a civil right as well. We are all entitled to end our lives if that is what we see fit. We are living and as humans we are entitled to ceasing such. Just as life is a human right, as is suicide.

I do not in any way promote senseless suicide, but in a situation in which there is absolutely no hope for things to get better, I can see suicide as an understandable decision. Just because suicide is perceived as selfish and harmful to those you leave behind doesn't mean it isn't any less of a human right. Freedom of thought and expression are human rights, yet look at all the pain freedom of expression has caused in certain instances.

My next door neighbor was a working elderly man. Every single day he'd garden and wave at the cars that would go by, and every day I'd see him tending to his flower garden. He lived alone and had grown children who rarely acknowledged him. He went to the doctor and discovered he had terminal cancer, came home, and put a shotgun in his mouth. His friend discovered his corpse in the backyard. I can honestly say that if I were in my neighbor's position, I would have done the same thing. It is selfish for people to say that God gave this man the remainder of his lifetime to suffer and wither away alone and miserable. Tell individuals in a persistent vegetative state that this is what God would want and see how quickly your words are ill received.

All in all, suicide is a human right by my definition. It isn't a pleasant thing to ponder, but it is a realistic one. We are thrown into this world of madness, and though most problems have a solution, sometimes there are those that can only be resolved through the great inevitable.

""My work is done, why wait?" (His suicide note.) -- George Eastman

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Let me ask you this, do you consider playing WOW a right? If not, then why do you play it? Does everything you do come down to survival?

Most of what I do is based around survival, yes. My goal in life is generally to survive the next 24 hours. I don't usually think past that at all.

As far as playing WoW and related things are concerned; no, they are not rights, strictly speaking. However, I find that I do need to do certain things that allow me to feel as though survival isn't purely for its' own sake, but that there is some sort of incentive to it. In choosing those things, the criteria then comes down to the mutual minimisation of harm.

That is the other reason why, even as a recreational activity, sex for me is completely out of the question. Sex can be harmful in all sorts of different ways. STDs, a baby, and/or a scenario where your significant other expects you to be responsible for their emotions.

If you are terminal then yes I think you should be allowed to end your own life.

I watched a documentary online and it was about a terminally ill man who went to Europe to have an assisted suicide. It was a great documentary and it showed how his family felt about it and how he felt about it and how he came to the conclusion to end his life.

Nobody should have to suffer just to appease family or friends. I know if someone I loved was terminally ill and in pain and they chose to take their life I'd support them. It is selfish imo to make someone live in such pain when it is just postponing the inevitable.


I do think it's sad when people take their lives because they feel it's the only option left. We have all seen many stories like this on the news. It's sad and it shouldn't be someones last hope. Those people I feel need help and should get it but I know that depression is a hard subject for some to admit and most dont seek help out of fear of criticism.

We make choices throughout our lifetime, we should be able to
make choices about our passing.
suicidal attempts are not punished by law, no matter the circumstances. So our body should remain ours until the very end, and as we have the right to choose the way we live, we should have the right to chose how and when we die. ..peace,sugarcookie1

reply to post by Skepticesque


Of course not, anyone who commits suicide should be arrested and fined.



Good threat, your post is very rational and well written. I agree with you completely, from what I've read, and find it ridiculous that there are laws, or even stigma against suicide. I don't go for the idea of 'rights', precisely because of situations like this. Thinking in terms of rights means that some 'rights' can be withheld.

In reality, we have the right to do anything we want - only, I believe, if it doesn't hurt anyone else. I.e. the right to do anything that doesn't hurt anyone else. Sure, suicide may do that emotionally, but everyone is definitely entitled to do it.

The cliche statements sometimes heard about suicide, "its a cowards way out", "its selfish", etc - as you mention, speak volumes of the ignorance of whoever says it. If someone is in so much pain that they cannot imagine being able to live another day, that they feel they cannot (not "don't want to") another day, it would be selfish to expect them to do so on anyone else's account. Like you say, it may depend on circumstances, e.g. a single father of 3 killing himself could be construed as selfish for pragmatic reasons.