George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

reply to post by butcherguy


Sorry - - I have a "quirk" thing with - - Many and Most.

Several lawyers. Many lawyers. Those who have weighed-in. But Most?

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Sorry - - I have a "quirk" thing with - - Many and Most.

Several lawyers. Many lawyers. Those who have weighed-in. But Most?

You are right.

All that matters is: First, the judge, then either a jury or if the judge rejects the probable cause presented, possibly a grand jury for a possible indictment....... if the prosecutor decides to take it there.

Until then, we can have our opinions.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Annee

 

Most? Taking a poll?

Of the attorneys that I have spoken to about this matter, all of them agreed that 2nd degree murder should not stick. It was only 6 attorneys, but there's your poll.
My take would be that attorneys are a professional group that study law in a university to be able to pass a bar exam in order to practice law. Their opinion would hold value because they practice law and know a lot more about it than the average person who is not an attorney. Hence the existence of their profession.

Kind of like going to medical doctors for matters regarding health, instead of asking an MSM talk show host to tell you what treatment they might offer for a medical condition that you might have.

edit on 18-4-2012 by butcherguy because: To add.

I do have lawyer friends and have passed the bar exam and as of yet haven't talked to one of my friends that believe this should end in anything but an acquittal. The only shocker we had was Allen Dershowitz agreeing with us hes the most liberal professor at Harvard law. Though we did agree he understands the mechanics of law better then anyone.

The Judge for the case officially recused herself today (her husband works for CNN news).

No news on a replacement judge as of yet.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
The Judge for the case officially recused herself today (her husband works for CNN news).

No news on a replacement judge as of yet.

Still not following the actual facts of the case I see.

The new judge on the case is Judge Kenneth Lester Jr., a 15-year veteran who has heard death penalty cases, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Judge steps aside from Zimmerman-Martin murder case

Ken Lester named new judge in Zimmerman murder case 5:26 p.m. EST, April 18, 2012| By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

Ken Lester named new judge in Zimmerman murder case

posted on 18-4-2012 @ 02:38 PM Judge steps aside from Zimmerman-Martin murder case

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Annee

 

Most? Taking a poll?

Of the attorneys that I have spoken to about this matter, all of them agreed that 2nd degree murder should not stick. It was only 6 attorneys, but there's your poll.
My take would be that attorneys are a professional group that study law in a university to be able to pass a bar exam in order to practice law. Their opinion would hold value because they practice law and know a lot more about it than the average person who is not an attorney. Hence the existence of their profession.

Kind of like going to medical doctors for matters regarding health, instead of asking an MSM talk show host to tell you what treatment they might offer for a medical condition that you might have.

edit on 18-4-2012 by butcherguy because: To add.

I do have lawyer friends and have passed the bar exam and as of yet haven't talked to one of my friends that believe this should end in anything but an acquittal. The only shocker we had was Allen Dershowitz agreeing with us hes the most liberal professor at Harvard law. Though we did agree he understands the mechanics of law better then anyone.

yea i saw that on msnbc, he was pretty adamant that from the info in the affidavit 2nd degree charges will not stick, but what was his poinion about lesser charges sticking?? i think he said something like the prosecutor overcharged in order to get zim to cop a plea.

reply to post by conspiracy nut

yea i saw that on msnbc, he was pretty adamant that from the info in the affidavit 2nd degree charges will not stick, but what was his poinion about lesser charges sticking?? i think he said something like the prosecutor overcharged in order to get zim to cop a plea.

To me, that sounds like a prosecutor saying that they doubt they can win a court battle, so they will bluff, in order to coerce the defendant into copping a plea.

Strong case, evidently.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

yea i saw that on msnbc, he was pretty adamant that from the info in the affidavit 2nd degree charges will not stick, but what was his poinion about lesser charges sticking?? i think he said something like the prosecutor overcharged in order to get zim to cop a plea.

To me, that sounds like a prosecutor saying that they doubt they can win a court battle, so they will bluff, in order to coerce the defendant into copping a plea.

Strong case, evidently.

That was my conclusion as well.. Aim for the stars and hope the arrow hits the suspect somewhere and sticks... Based on all the info to date it looks like an attempt to get a plea instead of a trial. I dont think she counted on the challenge under SYG law and immunity from prosecution if they can pull it off.

Regardless of the outcome she gets to use her action for political gain. She will be viewed as a person who made the attempt no matter the result. Contrary to their protests this is very much a political prosecution.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

I still see your NTAC 2.0 compliant. Has it not occurred to you, and apparently it has not, that your post being about 2 hours after mine possibly means when I posted the info that is the only info I had?

If you didnt embrace your rectal-cranial inversion so much you might see that. When I posted the above there was NO other info present as to who the replacement judge was.

So, is there any chance that you can stop acting like a childish 3 year old and engage in a conversation? Based on evidence to date I doubt it but I thought I would ask.....again.

How about you give it the old college try anyways...

Do you feel their is enough evidence (evidence being based on law and not your personal opinion) to sustain the charges of 2nd murder?

You can try and hide behind the excuse that was the only info available, but that is not true. I post the info in reply to you 2 hours after you, but I had posted the info in the other thread 5 hours before you. The point is had you done more than just read a headline and try reading the whole articles you would have known that the new judge had already been assigned.

Calling me names doesn't change the fact that once again you piped up in a conversation with incorrect information and tried to pass it off as fact.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Again if you paid attention and stopped trying to turn every post into a fight you would have noticed I left the other thread sometime back. I have been concentrating in this thread and only this thread. Secondly your continued effort to call me a liar any chance you get is getting old as well. When I made my post, it was the only info I had at the time. I know this because I was present when I read the info and made the post where as you dont know because you aren't me, you weren't present to read the info nor present when I made my post.

The info I posted was fact. Or are you stating the judge did not remove herself from the case because her husband worked for cnn?


Feel free to keep baiting though..

How about the question I asked that you ignored?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Again if you paid attention and stopped trying to turn every post into a fight you would have noticed I left the other thread sometime back. I have been concentrating in this thread and only this thread. Secondly your continued effort to call me a liar any chance you get is getting old as well. When I made my post, it was the only info I had at the time. I know this because I was present when I read the info and made the post where as you dont know because you aren't me, you weren't present to read the info nor present when I made my post.

The info I posted was fact. Or are you stating the judge did not remove herself from the case because her husband worked for cnn?


Feel free to keep baiting though..

How about the question I asked that you ignored?

edit on 19-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

this was not correct, and I pointed it out to you...

No news on a replacement judge as of yet.

It doesn't matter if you left the other thread or not. You posted information that was incorrect because you didn't bother to find out the rest of the story. The information had been available online hours before you posted that no new judge had been assigned. I don't know how you can say that was the only information you had available at the time, if you had internet access then you had access to the information.

I don't point these things out to fight with you, I could care less about you, I point them out to show others that although you may have strong opinions about this case and think you are the authoritative voice in the discussion that you continue to post incorrect information.

I will continue to ignore your questions. I have no need or desire to answer your questions. It is pointless to have any type of conversation with you if you insist on not keeping up with the case. When and If I see you posting wrong or incorrect information, I will continue to point it out.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
this was not correct, and I pointed it out to you...

No you did not.. The info I posted was correct. The judge removed herself from the case for conflict of interest reasons. At the time I posted the info its all I had.

What you did was accuse me of being a liar when in fact I am not. I told you its all the info I had yet for some reason your are hell bent on ignoring anything you cant use to attack me.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
It doesn't matter if you left the other thread or not.

I am referring to the thread you claimed to have posted the updated info in. I am not active in that thread so your argument here fails.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
You posted information that was incorrect because you didn't bother to find out the rest of the story.

Please support this accusation. I posted correct info and it was all the info I had at the moment. Again, you keep ignoring that fact because you cant attack me when its present. Ignoring the fact im not active in the other thread allows you to once again attack me.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
The information had been available online hours before you posted that no new judge had been assigned. I don't know how you can say that was the only information you had available at the time, if you had internet access then you had access to the information.

This is not a hard concept to understand. When I posted the info its all the info I had at the time. Again, ignoring that so you can attack me.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I don't point these things out to fight with you, I could care less about you,

Actually yes, you do point that out to attack and fight with me. If you didnt you could have simply posted updated info instead of making a big drama fest out of nothing. Again its only done so you can attack and accuse me.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I point them out to show others that although you may have strong opinions about this case and think you are the authoritative voice in the discussion that you continue to post incorrect information.

I comment in these because I do law enforcement for a living. I post specifically to point out how the law works to those who don't know and fail to understand.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I will continue to ignore your questions.

Along with every other question I have asked you when you made a false / incorrect claim Ironic how you wokr the double standard.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I have no need or desire to answer your questions. It is pointless to have any type of conversation with you if you insist on not keeping up with the case. When and If I see you posting wrong or incorrect information, I will continue to point it out.

Hypocritical much?

But hey if you want to go down this road no problem.. I will be sure to check your posts daily and return the favor..

This is interesting. It seems Zimmerman wants a face to face with the Martins, but they have declined.

Wonder he wanted to say to them?

Natalie Jackson, an attorney for Martin's family, on Thursday told CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin that O'Mara called to set up a private meeting between Zimmerman and the Martin family. The family declined, Jackson said, indicating they want Zimmerman, instead, to give a deposition on what happened the evening of February 26.

Will evidence come up at Friday's bond hearing for Zimmerman?

This man will not get a fair trial, its a pretty clear out come that he is found guilty,
what makes me laugh is that if this would have been a young white boy this would not have gone this out of control, firstly the President should not have spoken about this at all, when asked he should have simply said that he is saddened by the death of a young child but did not want to speak about it until the trail has been completed, then you have probably the biggest racist on the planet Al Sharpton throwing his weight around screaming about the death of another young Black boy, and those idiots known as the Black Panthers who are calling for blood.

The Evidence should have been looked into, people should have kept their mouths shut and to those who think that this is the right call i am very sorry for the way you think. if Zimmerman is found guilty it will not shock me, he will be used as a way to shut up the large portion of the Black community who are calling for blood.

I will end with this: Imagine if the young black boy was white and Zimmerman was a black man, would Al Sharpton be on television screaming to arrest the black man who shot the white boy, would President Obama be saying that if he had a son it would be like that white boy who was shot by the black man? no, this is just another thing for Black and White's to be forced further apart and i feel sorry for the guy caught in the middle, a man who was doing his job reporting someone who he did not recognize to the area, a man who is a member of the neighborhood watch and had a right to protect himself.

One last thing, read the evidence, the person who called the police reported that Zimmerman was being punched, another person said something about Zimmerman being on the ground, oh and also the whole Can of drink and skittles thing, have you ever mistook something for something else in the dark when only a little light falls onto it? how many times has someone been shot and the police say it looked like a gun but turned out to be a mobile phone?

Again Zimmerman will not get a fair trail, if the evidence was to show that he wrongfully shot the kid then i think he should be sent to prison for however long the justice system believes is right but the evidence is like the opinion of an insect, unimportant.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
This is interesting. It seems Zimmerman wants a face to face with the Martins, but they have declined.

Wonder he wanted to say to them?

Well maybe he wanted to apologise, I have no doubt that he regrets shooting Trayvon, I have no doubt that he regrets even getting out of his truck and following him, I'm fairly certain he has played that night through his head multiple times now and how he could have gone about it correctly.

I do however believe that alot of regret stems from the public backlash he received. I think right after the incident before media got involved, he wasn't as regretful, but this is just my opinion.

In anycase I don't blame the Martins for declining, it's alittle too late and this would conflict with the court case.

Originally posted by djv1985
This man will not get a fair trial,

Your opinion. We already had a judge step down because O'mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, personally believed she was biased. Most Floridians I have spoken to, many liberal, believe that he may verywell get off scot free from this case.

what makes me laugh is that if this would have been a young white boy this would not have gone this out of control,

Yes, because Zimmerman would have been charged instantly and would have been ordered to appear in court. If Trayvon was a white female, and Zimmerman was a black male, I'd bet my bottom dollar that Zimmerman would have found himself facing a life sentence or something harsh.

firstly the President should not have spoken about this at all,

Your opinion. If Obama didn't speak out, many people would be complaining as well.

then you have probably the biggest racist on the planet Al Sharpton throwing his weight around screaming about the death of another young Black boy, and those idiots known as the Black Panthers who are calling for blood.

Yep, and then you have racist sites like stormfront posting pictures claiming it was Trayvon when it was not, you have neonazis patrolling the streets, armed. It goes both ways.

Both the black panthers and the neonazis, white racialist groups, would like nothing more than to turn this into a race riot, and you are playing right into their plans.

Imagine if the young black boy was white and Zimmerman was a black man, would Al Sharpton be on television screaming to arrest the black man

Al Sharpton wouldn't have to, because the black man would have been arrested and charged already, this is what I believe.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
This is interesting. It seems Zimmerman wants a face to face with the Martins, but they have declined.

Wonder he wanted to say to them?

Well maybe he wanted to apologise, I have no doubt that he regrets shooting Trayvon, I have no doubt that he regrets even getting out of his truck and following him, I'm fairly certain he has played that night through his head multiple times now and how he could have gone about it correctly.

I do however believe that alot of regret stems from the public backlash he received. I think right after the incident before media got involved, he wasn't as regretful, but this is just my opinion.

In anycase I don't blame the Martins for declining, it's alittle too late and this would conflict with the court case.

I was being somewhat sarcastic. His lawyer had stated previously that he wanted to meet with them, but this is the first word from Martins camp about being approached by Zimmermans lawyers for such a meeting.

I agree with you, I think alot of his remorse is coming from the public backlash. Im sure he has genuine guilt but I also believes he believes he shouldn't be punished for his actions. That's the problem.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I was being somewhat sarcastic. His lawyer had stated previously that he wanted to meet with them, but this is the first word from Martins camp about being approached by Zimmermans lawyers for such a meeting.

I agree with you, I think alot of his remorse is coming from the public backlash.

I doubt it.. To date public backlash has not appeared to have affected him in the sense of second guessing his actions. Had it he would have already taken a plea deal where he would have gotten a better deal than by allowing it to go to trial.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Im sure he has genuine guilt but I also believes he believes he shouldn't be punished for his actions. That's the problem.

Since we dont have all of the facts in this case I fail to see how his position is a problem. Please show us where his actions are 100% illegal and please support that view with facts and sources and not your personal opinion and speculation.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I was being somewhat sarcastic. His lawyer had stated previously that he wanted to meet with them, but this is the first word from Martins camp about being approached by Zimmermans lawyers for such a meeting.

I agree with you, I think alot of his remorse is coming from the public backlash.

I doubt it.. To date public backlash has not appeared to have affected him in the sense of second guessing his actions. Had it he would have already taken a plea deal where he would have gotten a better deal than by allowing it to go to trial.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Im sure he has genuine guilt but I also believes he believes he shouldn't be punished for his actions. That's the problem.

Since we dont have all of the facts in this case I fail to see how his position is a problem. Please show us where his actions are 100% illegal and please support that view with facts and sources and not your personal opinion and speculation.

1. Yeah thats why he tried contacting the SP himself, Hannity himself, and now wants to meet with the Martins personally. Public backlash is for sure getting to him.

Also Thursday, those representing Trayvon Martin's parents said Zimmerman requested to meet them.

Safety, location at issue if Zimmerman is released on bond

2. Im allowed to state personal opinions anytime I want. I don't have to justify them or provide any type of source just because you ask. When its my opinion, I state that, when it needs a source, I provide that. You can't say the same. We can all go back and read the post and see exactly where myself and others have pointed out your flat out lies. My personal opinions are mine and im allowed to have them and express them. Sorry if you don't like the source.