What Happened to the Planes? 911 and Logic

reply to post by Jeedawg



Hey Jeedawg,

It's a funny little fact that after so long and so little evidence my friends do the same thing. You are not alone.

It's amazing that you can ask a really sensible question about the 911 "attacks" and get shot down in flames. Yeah that's right, I'm the stupid one?

I just love little facts like, how did the worlds most secure building/area get attacked by a relatively slow moving aircraft that was visible on radar (Even though, apparently the "highjackers" turned the transponders off) didn't get picked up by:

A. the air force?
B. The ground to air surface missile battery at the pentagon (With it's own radar)
C. one of hundreds of cameras...........just one, anyone...........just one?...........anybody?
D. and a hundred other things contained in a hundred other reports?

It's all a big game my friend.

Time will tell............it will all come out in the wash.

Any so called LOGIC has to stay within the boundaries of physics.

What happened to the tail of the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon?

What happened to the 180 seats? How could we not have photographs of that?

psik

I know 9/11 was an inside job, the only thing I don't know is whether actual muslim extremists were manipulated into killing themselves, or if the entire thing was stage, and planes were switched. The question with that though is what happened to the passengers on the planes that were switched (if that were the case).. are they all forced to live on a secret military compound for the rest of their lives, or were they murdered..

I really believe more in the CIA manipulating muslim extremists to actually hijack planes and fly them into the buildings.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Greetings, ATS!

I’ve been looking into the 911 conspiracy issues for the past couple of months. I know there’s a plethora of 911 threads on ATS already, but I’d like to make this thread different.

I’m aware that many folks don’t believe a plane hit the Pentagon, or that a plane crashed in Shanksville. Recently, to my surprise, I discovered that some folks even question whether or not the passenger planes hit the WTC. According to a few threads I’ve read, the other theories about what hit the WTC include remote-controlled military plane, a missile, or even a hologram.

I don’t have the expertise to debate the impact sites at the Pentagon, the WTC, and Shanksville. I can’t intelligently discuss what caused the WTC buildings to collapse the way they did, or even if that collapse was unusual. I have to accept what the professionals tell me, and I’m very well aware that the professionals disagree, sometimes quite vehemently. So I decided to take a different route.

Here’s what I’d like to do. Let’s use logic and discuss only one issue: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANES? Where did the planes go, if they didn’t crash into the WTC, Shanksville, or the Pentagon? Did the planes fly to some unknown location where the passengers and crew were executed? If so, why?

To me, it seems illogical to fly a missile into the Pentagon and attempt to pass it off as a passenger plane. After all, there were witnesses who saw the plane (and personally, I think I’d remember a plane crashing a couple hundred yards away). More importantly, why use a missile instead of the actual plane? Was it to cause less or more destruction? And if you use a missile, what happened to the plane?

If the 911 attacks were planned by the government to raise support for the War on Terror, then it would be counter-productive to use a missile instead of a plane. This sounds callous, but I believe it to be true; to really enrage the public, you would prefer a higher body count. It would, in that light, make more sense to crash the plane into the Pentagon. Same with the WTC and Shanksville.

So, to recap: this thread is to discuss the logic of the 911 attacks and not to debate free falling buildings, debris fields, etc. ATS has a wonderful reservoir of bright and analytical minds, and I look forward to reading the different viewpoints and ideas.

9/11 was a fakery extravaganza. We were sold a bs narrative.
9/11 was 30+ years in the planning. Ask yourself how any aspect
could have been faked, and you will be thinking along the same
lines as the perpetrators in the long planning stages.


www.cluesforum.info

There were very few if any real deaths that day (see SSDI), a vital aspect of the scam.
The only deaths 'seen' that day were the 'jumpers'.
Google 'Gelatin B and 9/11'

Come on people. Stop chasing your tails. You were meant to swallow any and all of
the differing layers of conspiracy. These blind alleys were built into the scheming.

But you were not meant, at all costs, to discover that the whole damn thing was
faked, a demolition job disguised as a dastardly attack.

Snap out of it.

T/hink fakery on every aspect of 9/11, and you will be on the right track.

reply to post by psikeyhackr

What happened to the 180 seats? How could we not have photographs of that?

"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."

reply to post by smyleegrl

What happens to anything made of metal, filled with jet fuel and slamming at "x" hundred miles per hour into reinforced concrete? Little, teeny, itty, bitty pieces. You say you read threads here about it. Browse this one...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

What happened to the 180 seats? How could we not have photographs of that?

"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."

The plane almost disintegrated and YET they managed to find corpes still attached to the seat ?
Can someone explain that to me ?

To those that will send links to the pictures of burnt corpses in the pentagon as proof of a passenger aircraft , I am sure these were from the pentagon workers and not the passengers.

Originally posted by CaptainBeno
reply to post by Jeedawg

 

Hey Jeedawg,

It's a funny little fact that after so long and so little evidence my friends do the same thing. You are not alone.

It's amazing that you can ask a really sensible question about the 911 "attacks" and get shot down in flames. Yeah that's right, I'm the stupid one?

I just love little facts like, how did the worlds most secure building/area get attacked by a relatively slow moving aircraft that was visible on radar (Even though, apparently the "highjackers" turned the transponders off) didn't get picked up by:

A. the air force?
B. The ground to air surface missile battery at the pentagon (With it's own radar)
C. one of hundreds of cameras...........just one, anyone...........just one?...........anybody?
D. and a hundred other things contained in a hundred other reports?

It's all a big game my friend.

Time will tell............it will all come out in the wash.

A. The Air Force and all other major Major Commands (MAJCOMS) and civilian agencies were part of that *coincidental* national/military exercise that was happening on 9-11. What are the chances of our country holding a nationwide national/military exercise EXACTLY ON THE PRECISE DAY AND TIME of *actual* events that mirrored the exercise parameters (hijacking of civilian airliners)...? This is too far, too much for coincidence. Someone wise once said that "COINCIDENCE IS A GLIMPSE INTO A PATTERN OTHERWISE HIDDEN."
B. US Naval vessels are armed with Aegis defense systems, essentially powerful "Vulcan-like" chain machine guns that are designed to SHRED **anything** that gets too close to the ship without authorization. I imagine the Pentagon's defenses are similar to this (if we protect our ships with Aegis defense systems, then the Pentagon should have at least that level of defense). These never activated. Further, the DAY BEFORE 9-11, the SECDEF (Sec. of Defense) declared that trillions of dollars of defense money was missing. Guess what section of the Pentagon got clobbered on 9-11? The PRECISE location where these financial records (and the people investigating them) were housed. Hmmmm...
C. The FBI (and perhaps other agencies) confiscated ALL POSSIBLE SURVEILLANCE CAMERA FOOTAGE that had the Pentagon attack in the background. Video from all banks, gas stations and any other location with a camera with the Pentagon (even possibly) in the background was confiscated. To this day, only that shabby footage was released ---and that doesn't even show an airliner. Where are all of the other recordings? We will never see them most likely.

reply to post by GhostLancer


Nice one

Yeah too true mate, it's all a fix. Makes my blood boil.

At least if they released one bit of footage it would quell all rumours, but they don't because it was not a 757.

reply to post by smyleegrl


You are quite right that it is completely illogical to hi-jack 4 passenger planes only to disappear them and substitute them with other flying vehicles to simulate those very same planes. Only in trutherdom can that absurd additional complexity make any sense and there is not a shred of evidence to support it.

The planes did not, of course, vanish from all observation when they took off and you may be interested to hear what these air traffic controllers have to say about their experiences on 9/11. Its in 4 parts so about an hour all told :-

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by CaptainBeno
I have been lucky in life to fly quite a few aircraft for a living. One thing I can say with hand on heart, that under those conditions (heart going a million miles an hour, not really knowing the aircraft, just about to kill myself etc etc) I could not line that aircraft up enough to accurately hit a small wall in a building that high.

But of course you dont know they were aiming at that specific wall.

One might suppose they were aiming for the middle of the complex and came in too low, or indeed aiming for no particular part of it at all and just hoping that they'd smash into it some way or another. Maybe they'd planned on coming down at a much sharper angle but screwed that up as well and fell short, pulling up just in time (for them) to be lucky enough to not hit the ground before the building itself.

reply to post by Monte-Carlo


One hijackers forced passengers to rear of plane - this part sustains less force than the front of the plane

Most of the passenger remains were found near exit hole in C Ring along with some of the heavier debris

Map of remains

Below: location of human remains. An exhibit from the Moussaoui trial. Blue ovals show flight 77 victims; orange ovals, Pentagon workers; black ovals, unidentified (there were also fatalities on the second floor).

Even at WTC found part of cockpit seat with human remains

The discovery of a foot and leg and a cockpit seat led to speculation that one of the pilots had been found, Goldberg said

Making conjecture based on personal opinion

Firefighters and rescue workers reported finding airline seats, including passengers

reply to post by alfa1

But of course you dont know they were aiming at that specific wall.

One might suppose they were aiming for the middle of the complex and came in too low, or indeed aiming for no particular part of it at all and just hoping that they'd smash into it some way or another. Maybe they'd planned on coming down at a much sharper angle but screwed that up as well and fell short, pulling up just in time (for them) to be lucky enough to not hit the ground before the building itself.

.

Reason hit that wall is simple - that was direction they came in from.......

On initial approach plane was too high so hijackers had to make a 270 deg turn to line up again on the Pentagon

NTSB animation from Flight Data Recorder

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Drezden
I know 9/11 was an inside job, the only thing I don't know is whether actual muslim extremists were manipulated into killing themselves, or if the entire thing was stage, and planes were switched. The question with that though is what happened to the passengers on the planes that were switched (if that were the case).. are they all forced to live on a secret military compound for the rest of their lives, or were they murdered..

I really believe more in the CIA manipulating muslim extremists to actually hijack planes and fly them into the buildings.

I would agree with this. Let the terrorists do the "dirty work," while our government turns a supposedly blind eye....

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

What happens to anything made of metal, filled with jet fuel and slamming at "x" hundred miles per hour into reinforced concrete? Little, teeny, itty, bitty pieces. You say you read threads here about it. Browse this one...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thank you for the link. I will check it out.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

You are quite right that it is completely illogical to hi-jack 4 passenger planes only to disappear them and substitute them with other flying vehicles to simulate those very same planes. Only in trutherdom can that absurd additional complexity make any sense and there is not a shred of evidence to support it.

The planes did not, of course, vanish from all observation when they took off and you may be interested to hear what these air traffic controllers have to say about their experiences on 9/11. Its in 4 parts so about an hour all told :-

www.youtube.com...

Thank you! Got it marked on my "to do" list....

Here’s what I’d like to do. Let’s use logic and discuss only one issue: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANES? Where did the planes go, if they didn’t crash into the WTC, Shanksville, or the Pentagon?

reply to post by smyleegrl


According to the Northwoods dossier with this kind of false flag they would switch the planes at one location, replacing them with remote-controlled lookalikes. The passengers would have been boarded with carefully selected aliases, except the people who have no part in it (Those whose actually existing relatives support a new 9/11 investigation, just like almost ALL the families of the victims in the Twin Towers).

Many strange mix ups that day, the aircraft landing supposedly due to a terrorist threat, and the strange boarding routines of the passengers of the planes that day. One airport worker claims he entered the cockpit while one the planes was on the ground, and one of the crew there was most certainly NOT any of those pictured at the Shanksville memorial. All very strange incidents.

I still haven't seen any answer to the logical question from the OP.

Where did the aircraft go, that were full of people if they didn't hit the buildings?

Being military, I can think of 100 different ways to accomplish the goals of 911 without coming up with an elaborate sceme that some are saying happened.

Important military term for you folks...KISS (keep it simple stupid). The military strives for simplicity in operations. The more moving parts, the more problems.

I know that misunderstanding of physics, and general distrust of the government is rampant on here, but come on. If the government pulled off 911, they would of gone a simplier route with less chance of a glitch exposing the true nature of the operation.

But whatever, I like arguing so go ahead.

Ah...I see the response before I posted this...sorry.

But are you saying they were put on the remote control aircraft, or given aliases and living a new life now?

Originally posted by cavscout11cav
I still haven't seen any answer to the logical question from the OP.

Where did the aircraft go, that were full of people if they didn't hit the buildings?

Being military, I can think of 100 different ways to accomplish the goals of 911 without coming up with an elaborate sceme that some are saying happened.

Important military term for you folks...KISS (keep it simple stupid). The military strives for simplicity in operations. The more moving parts, the more problems.

I know that misunderstanding of physics, and general distrust of the government is rampant on here, but come on. If the government pulled off 911, they would of gone a simplier route with less chance of a glitch exposing the true nature of the operation.

But whatever, I like arguing so go ahead.

Ah...I see the response before I posted this...sorry.

But are you saying they were put on the remote control aircraft, or given aliases and living a new life now?

edit on 7-4-2012 by cavscout11cav because: (no reason given)

I agree completely with the KISS viewpoint.

In my opinion, the more people "involved" in a conspiracy, the more opportunities for leaks, whistleblowers, and other problems. IMO, its the inherent flaw in most conspiracy theories. Not saying all conspiracy theories are invalid, mind you.

Anyway, thanks for this input. Star for you!

9/11 cannot be analyzed properly in this particular lab. Lab, meaning the US with all of its inherent bias and psychological programs that come with growing up in "God's country".

The lab itself is tainted. The structures in the lab that are supposed to allow for the discovery of truth are geared to not allow any truth to be revealed.

Psychology and the mind functions play a huge role in being able to even look at data through a clear, unbiased lens. There aren't many people who can question their own flat-earth thinking. It's a conundrum that requires the dismantling of the layers of conditioning and ego-driven programming of both society, family & country.

One who considers themselves a "patriot" of this country and who would defend "her" to the death, holds an ideal held high by those of us who grew up here, but it makes it nearly impossible to question and understand events like this without filtering through a network of beliefs--most of which were put in place by others (education, parents, tv, govt, society, etc).

If you get to the question, "What happened to the planes and passengers?" as a way to avoid landmines in trying to discuss 9/11 in a thoughtful & research-driven way, it is a sign that this event has some pretty long psychological screws holding the official story together.

The story comes apart at every turn, yet to discuss any of it opens up pandora's box to every belief possible. Destroy belief and only then can you look at 9/11. It can't be done any other way.

For those who have dug, it's obvious that everything coming out of a 3-letter network is suspect. So right there you have to question every statement and video that originated there. 99.9% of the population experience 9/11 much like the listeners of Orson Welles "War of the Worlds". And for the people that were subject to the shock and awe of being there on 9/11, ask 3 witnesses of a car crash what they saw and you will get 3 differing accounts. Multiply that by the population and you have a snake nest of who knows what.

There is some pretty revealing analysis of the videos we were shown on 9/11. 15 second network blackouts, title bars covering up possible CGI errors, reporters covering the collapse of a building that hadn't fallen yet, and then watching it come down having not been touched by a plane. No debris. Pristine passports, yet no engines, starters, apu, nose cones, wing & flight surface fragments, landing gear parts...

9/11 stands alone when it really should be lumped in with all of the other events that have occurred where serious questions have been raised as to the truth of the official story.

Here's an exercise: Research the number of politicians, lobbyists & contract employees in the last twenty years that have died due to plane crash, car accident, dumped in a landfill, crashed their car into the garage and burned, suicide with note... the list is long and would blow fisherman occupation out of the water as most dangerous job in terms of the high percentages of death. Look into the vics positions, research and history and the links become even more telling. From the dozens of biologists to Wellstone's crash to Ron Brown, to the Clinton list, the death by itself is a non-event. But when they pile high and deep, then you have to question the deeper puzzle.

The deeper puzzle is that most of america is in a belief state perpetuated by constant external inputs, designed to attach to feeling and emotion, resulting in a desired state, be it consumer, believer, patriot, or couch potato. And while each person has the power to over-ride their own brain program, it isn't easy nor is it readily available to most--again due to the nature of how we pass down information and knowledge.

We were told that four commercial aircraft were hijacked.
We were told by Lisa Beamer that her husband was able to talk on a cellphone inflight and that he & others helped to take out the hijackers.
We were told that there is no video available from the most secure buildings on the planet.
We were told that building 7 came down due to fire and have the building owner saying they took it down.
The list goes on and continues back to events like Gulf of Tonkin.

The psychology studies & mind-control experiments done by government funded research would fill a library. There are people who understand completely how the mind can be programmed in a mass scale.

And it's not just about 9/11. MSM is an entertainment and propaganda filtration machine. There is real news (usually local) and there is news created for a purpose. The news of 9/11 was created to exact change in a quick way so that when the smoke cleared (and the mirrors) there would be no way to decipher what really happened in any reasonable time frame.

It doesn't matter at this point whether there were real planes/passengers or not. Bush's "Mission Accomplished" had nothing to do with winning a war. The mission was accomplished, it was merely to GO to war.