Anyone Who Profits Off Of Ufo, Or Alien Topics.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


the catholic church better pay all its money back then

Originally posted by Clairaudience
reply to post by dawnprince

 

I think his point is that we all should pay him money because he had three sightings!

Back to topic though, I think it's fair that a few individuals in the field make money through books, interviews, videos and even websites. There is a lot of work involved when writing a book or creating an online database of sightings, it takes a lot of research, time and patience, and that should be rewarded.

I agree whole heartedly with this, though I have trouble with the ones preying on the gullible, they should be brought out for the public humiliation they deserve.

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
Ok here it is.

Do any of you guys not believe that it's wrong for anyone to profit off the topic of ufos, and aliens? Understanding that people like Stan Friedman, and Dr Greer have made a life long living off of these topics when in reality they know nothing more than any of you believers on the matter. I am sure some of you believers from ATS probably know more on the topic than most of if not all of these guys.

Seriously consider this. Is it right for Stan to pocket $30.000 - $100.000 for speaking engagement's? The books endorsements? Is it right for Dr Greer to pocket over a Million dollars a year for holding his little alien camp-outs for believers, and the gullible?

To me No-One has the right to profit off of anything that has not been proven, and in all likely hood is the biggest hoax perpetrated on man-kind besides the Mayans calendar dooms day idea. No-One has the right to take money from something they have no way of proofing, or showing hard-core evidence to back up their claims. Evidence that can be tested and showed to be not of this earth! This is my opinion, and I'd love to read yours on this issue...

.....Today's Unpopular Opinion......

Or how about my pet peeve.............
Google AdSense for your video uploads.....
If you can upload a good hoax UFO vid, make it go viral, you can fill your pockets pretty quickly!

I do not understand why people NEED to make money off of something like this.....but I do understand why people DO attempt to make money off of it.

While some dont seem to care about people making $$ off it all, as soon as I see a "ufo" YT vid having ads on it........I dismiss it. It seems very fraudulent and obvious to me.

Just wait until these guys realize that they can keep all of the money if they organize into a tax-exempt religion.

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
To me No-One has the right to profit off of anything that has not been proven....This is my opinion, and I'd love to read yours on this issue...

First, yes they do have the right. It's called "Capitalism." As long as they're not breaking any LAWS then they can make money however they see fit.

Second, no one is forcing anyone to buy what they're selling. Making this whole argument seem a bit foolish.

Third, there is no rule that prohibits people from publishing their thoughts, beliefs and/or facts/opinions they have researched on an issue, whether you believe it's real or not.

Fourth, much current acceptable science is still nothing more than THEORY yet it is pushed off as FACT: Theory of evolution, the origin of the Universe, etc.

Fifth, the only way to find out if UFOs, paranormal, etc. are REAL then we have to ASK questions or pose THEORIES on any given subject, regardless if you think it's a waste of time or not. You don't have to read it and you can continue living in your safe world with your walls firmly in place.

History is FILLED with individuals publishing their writings that went against conventional beliefs at the time and they were ridiculed only to be proven right eventually.

Get a grip mate, this planet is built on money, nothing else matters apart from petroleum. Earning money as some well known ufologists do, isn't ground for questioning their credibility or beliefs, we all have to earn money to live, it's how we're brought up and taught. And yeah, if I could make money doing something I love and believe in, I would research UFOs full time


The fake yt vids are a diffferent matter, that is pure profiteering from fraud.

Over 30 years I've had a couple of books published, many articles, reviews and contributions to part-works. Plus some speaking to conferences and organisations, in various areas of our field including UFOs and aliens. I was paid for most of these efforts, but given the money I've spent on books, magazines, travel and other expenses for research, I'm certainly down financially, overall. Doesn't matter - I enjoy it, and it's my choice of fun!

All I'd say is don't judge on the basis of Friedman (who is competent but has convictions that don't convince me) or Greer, about whom I can say nothing positive. Or Tim Good. Some writers, researchers and lecturers make a living, but few of them can sit back and relax unless they have other income.

Personally, I have a high opinion of individuals like Jenny Randles and Nick Redfern, from the UK, and Martin Kottmeyer from the US. I don't always agree with them, but it is informed, energetic specialists like these whose standards and persistence in the face of low returns actually make sure that our subject exists beyond falling for the latest Youtube hoax, believing in Orbs or pretending that it is the Governments failure to disclose that leaves us with a pile of mostly dreadful evidence.

If you want to do research properly, and figure out what is true and what is not, you have to put in a lot of time and some money. There is no good reason for resenting those who choose to do so much to take forward the investigations which intrigue so many of us..

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


I do know that among the real "community" of people who have had actual contact, not unlike in the community of people who are interested in real spiritual development, that such people are "tolerated" yet shunned. As soon as any person attempts to capitalize upon the knowledge freely given, the process of "shunning", in a sense, begins.

The reason that this occurs has to do with notions that we are all already aware of: That these "things" both spiritual and so called "extraterrestrial" which I will also call "spiritual" in nature are of a higher level consciousness that are meant to help instuct the soul in its path to a higher level existence.

That being the case, lowering one's self into that lower vibrational arena of ego, greed, envy and such are looked upon as a betrayal of the spiritual principles that bind us together in the community of souls, in the same way as religions teach these things as "sins" or lesser existences. They will find their own rewards, that much is given.

As soon as these people are discovered by performing their betrayal against what is freely given, the information that they have to give you begins to become distorted and innacurate, as their access now becomes limited.
In other words, it is "sin-like" to divulge these things for profit.

Having said that, there is no difficulty with the notion that at least some information should be known to the general public in a way that is helpful to them, but when certain lines are crossed: i.e. claims of truth, and I know the answer, fearmongering among the populace, and, of course profiteering, then it is as if the baser qualities of mankind come into play.

But oh... the overall task that we are subject to is instuction of our soul and our development, not wallowing in the pig pit of human desire. It would be better for these people to write fiction with truth embedded than to come off as some "duty expert" as the narcissistic personality is apt to do.

These folks are not fakes, but become fakes because they suddenly get left out to hang and dry, and from that point on have to make up their stories with contact limited to people who are on the fringe and have mental issues about it all. This is "why" they start sounding crazy after awhile.

You will seldom, if ever, and probably never hear from the mysterious "sources" that these people claim as they were given these ideas from a foundation of a student learning from a teacher and they have betrayed that trust and put many people and relationships in jeopardy.

In other words, a desire to disseminate information by these people, morphs into an "endeavor" that reaches back into the lower self and becomes a "business". Quite frankly, they have fallen off the path. The "blamability" comes from the fact that "they know better than that".

In extremely dangerous cases, they DO disappear.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Get a grip mate, this planet is built on money, nothing else matters apart from petroleum. Earning money as some well known ufologists do, isn't ground for questioning their credibility or beliefs, we all have to earn money to live, it's how we're brought up and taught. And yeah, if I could make money doing something I love and believe in, I would research UFOs full time

The fake yt vids are a diffferent matter, that is pure profiteering from fraud.

edit on 4-4-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)

The question becomes, "Who is bull#ting who?"

Are the rank and file of the UFO believers movement being lied to by the 'experts' as a way for them to make money?

Are the believers lying to each other AND to the experts to get their own piece of the UFO money?

Who is to say which of these 'experts' are the real deal [sic] and which ones are frauds? To quote Sting, "They all seem like gameshow hosts to me".

Why can't you make a living on UFOs? Take the classic example of sic-fi author L. Ron Hubbard. He created a religion based on the concept of aliens to make money from those he could dupe into believing it. And he did. LOTS of it. The only thing that needs to happen for you to make money off of UFOs is for you to be able to tell a new and fantastic story, or to put your own spin on preexisting stories and then write about 200 or so pages of it and get it published. Heck, these days you can even self publish your first book to get it out there and then sign on with a publishing house after you have a few hundred sales under your belt.

That's what I did.

I have written two books on UFOs that I have completely fabricated. Yup, I hoaxed them. Why? Money. While I believe in extraterrestrial life, I don't think they are visiting us, and frankly, non-believers don't buy books on the subject. So I had to write some crap to get people interested in giving me money. It worked.

I don't and will not mention the books on ATS. I've searched ATS from time to time for the titles of those books and the pseudonym that I used, and thus far it has only appeared once. I took part in the thread and told everyone that the information presented in the book was a hoax (I did not tell anyone that I was the author). People decided to believe the book and I washed my hands of it.

Just because you think the expert is really an expert doesn't make it so. How many others have followed the same route I have to more success and recognition?

reply to post by Furbs


You my friend are nothing but a charlatan with no morals. If I studied UFOs full time, it would be legitamitely and without lying to people. Biggest problem today is liars and dishonest people cashing in, did the government pay you to write as well?

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
reply to post by Furbs

 

You my friend are nothing but a charlatan with no morals. If I studied UFOs full time, it would be legitamitely and without lying to people. Biggest problem today is liars and dishonest people cashing in, did the government pay you to write as well?

I readily admit to being such. That is my point. You DON'T study UFOs full time because there isn't enough going on to warrant full time research. The biggest problem today is not the people cashing in, it is the people buying the books. I would not have written them if there were not gullible people eager to buy them.

Why would the government pay me to write a book about aliens? The government has better (and worse) things to worry about than whether or not a few thousand people (my audience) believes in UFOs.

reply to post by Furbs


On the contrary, I believe there is plenty information to write about UFOs and I get your point, however for everyone like you there is a complete opposite.

And no wonder you won't say the name of your books, if you felt like you had to make up info to get people interested, you're obviously crap at studying UFOs

We've got numerous retired U.S. military personnel who have claimed to have taken and turned in clear photographic evidence. Some of it government spokemen have admitted exists but refused to show to the public. Government officials have been caught lying many times about the existence of various documents and on details related to cases. And we've got former government debunkers who became UFO advovates after retiring, including one who had a clear personal sighting before joining Blue Book but kept it secret until 1978.

Just saying there's no proof doesn't cut it when such evidence is being withheld.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


No, the only reason I do not mention the books on ATS is that it is expressly forbidden to do so in the Terms. I cannot use ATS to sell books, nor can I post material which I know to be a hoax, and I will not do either here. I would love to give the titles out here.. are you serious? People would buy them and read them, and then tell their friends about them. It would be good for business.

I may be a hoaxer, but I am also someone that will play by the rules when I am in someone else's back yard.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


So, you think people like stanton should do it for free? You believe that all the time spent writing books, going to conferences around the world, should be done for free. Are you one of these people who think that people like stanton have a money tree in their garden, so they have no excuse for asking for money? How the hell do you expect someone to live and earn money when they dedicate most of their time doing this?

Also, do you think its right that de-bunkers make money writing rubbish? Look at the sceptics society, they make money through ticket sales, and also shermer makes money from his books, and other de-bunkers like him, but you think that okay because they are being "scientific" about the subject lol

I don't really see anything wrong withsomeone writing fictional tales about ufos and aliens. It's just when it is passed off as truth that it is fraudulent.

The real issue is that with information being occulted by those in the know for various reasons, the liars further the problem by inserting more confusion with their bs. It is unhelpful.

Sure someone ought to be able to make a living off their work. But I can't sign off on 100k for for a specious speaking engagement. It does invoke ideas of people with the morals of a mule.

Part of this discussion is merely focussed on the "industry" of ufo tall tales that have nothing to do with reality. With that comes a lot of histrionics and childish garbage.

The truth is more mundane than you would suspect.

There are reasons why there is no "disclosure".

OK so lets not pay someone for their time and effort, let alone lost family time due to hours spent doing intervies with stranger traveling costs and what not, yeah those greedy people for trying to get the consumer to pay for the expenses associated in the knowledge they may gain from such works

why should an abductee get any compensation for what is happening to them? its not the readers fault that the author cant leave the house or they get random anxiety attacks, or that they can only sleep during daylight for fear of the nighttime because they feel safer if someone is awake in the house at all times. yeah lets not pay these people for their story that we want to know about.

why is this subject any different to all the others out there, archaeology,art, craft, science, history. the list is endless.

whateva

If people are dumb enough
to buy BS let them buy it.
This is America let people
sell whatever someone
will buy. That is what makes
the world go around.
Now I know most of the stuff
is freaking poop, and they profit
off the less intelligent which I found
pretty sickening in itself, but
if people will buy a cow patty let
them buy it they might use it
for fertilizer not sniffing..

If somebody is giving their time to something its reasonable that they expect to get paid. Whether they get paid is down to whether other people consider their product (book, speech, whatever) of value.

I've bought a few books on the topic. I enjoyed them. As such I don't feel hard done by. The internet is a vast sea of random info garbage. Theres still a place for somebody picking out the useful nuggets and writing a book. If its presenting new information, or old information in a good way, its still worth paying for.

The problem is that the field is full of people who aren't content for the topic to be the mystery it is. They need it as a substitute for religion. When ever there is a 'need to believe' a charlatan will appear to fill the void. There is no difference between Greers ECETI scamming and TV evangelism.

- Presenting new evidence, or new insight into old evidence makes you a reporter/historian (ok)
- Presenting the same old stuff again and again makes you a hack (ok, if people want to hear it again)
- Writing fiction and presenting it as fact makes you a scam artist/low life.

Somebody dumb enough to fall for one of these scams would just fall for a different scam otherwise.

Originally posted by justwokeup
- Presenting new evidence, or new insight into old evidence makes you a reporter/historian (ok)
- Presenting the same old stuff again and again makes you a hack (ok, if people want to hear it again)
- Writing fiction and presenting it as fact makes you a scam artist/low life.

Somebody dumb enough to fall for one of these scams would just fall for a different scam otherwise.

This is the problem with the entire genre.

There is no way of knowing who is 'legitimate' and who is someone in it for money.

What do you think of a person that gives new insight to old evidence that he doesn't believe is credible?
What about the person that presents the same old stuff knowing that it is all bogus hoaxes?

Again, the authors aren't the problem with this genre. The consumers are the problems. There is little discrimination between authors/publishers that promote 'factual evidence' [sic] and those that promote intentional fraud.

I mean, look at Georgio Tsoukalos. How is anything this man says credible evidence of anything? His education is in sports information and communication.

He isn't a scientist.
He isn't an anthropologist.
He is an author and television personality.

And yet he is a trustworthy source? Why? The consumers like him. His hair sells ad time for the History Channel.