**ALL MEMBERS** The recent surge in Hatred, Racism, and Sheer Stupidity STOPS NOW.

I bet the owners aren't actually expecting to make a difference in the minds of those being spoken of.

Instead, I assume the owners are seeking to distance the website's reputation from the rhetoric for a key strategic reason in the marketplace. They don't want ATS to become known as "that racist website", which could prove very bad for business.

I am sure that having higher quality discussions with less prejudice would also be a great side effect of such a decision.

I am an optimist but also a realist, I try to be at least.
I don't expect this member alert message will change things much, but I will remain hopeful as always that there will be much more great content on ATS in the near future.

I think this is a wise move. There have been several instances recently where new and old members have been stoking the racism fire and seemingly trying to stir up "extremist" membership. They know that there are a lot of very opinionated people here, and maybe they think they are a good target to rile?

One such discussion actually concerned me a great deal when I saw a poster making open threats of violence that could quite easily be viewed as extreme. Most of us understand that ATS is already looked upon with curiosity by many agencies, because of the nature of the discussions here. And because of it we should not be allowing some extreme elements here to justify or reinforce that perception. Ultimately, by allowing that kind of blatant extremist attitude to go unchecked we are allowing those with an interest in restricting freedoms more power and justification for doing so.

I think this is about accepting responsible self-policing instead of risking forced censorship.

It's a great place to challenge perceptions, and while we are all Human and open to becoming emotive, those who routinely post aggressive, threatening, abusive, racist, homophobic and generally unpleasant posts clearly with an agenda in mind should be tackled.

It'll be interesting to see how this gets implement and how it progresses
I'm mainly thinking about my experiences in the social issues section of ATS

The opening of what some consider as taboo topics threads is what I want to see progress within this new framework

Should be interesting....

...some of my best friends are conspiracy theorists....


We played right into what the media and govt wanted...we are dividing.

reply to post by Springer


I will respond to the thread by saying I feel this is actually being handled very well.

ATS has realized that censorship isn't the answer and is giving the ATS community the benefit of the doubt in their ability to act appropriately is a huge step in the right moderator direction.

Actively monitoring posters and their post history and closely looking at their "agenda' and patterns of threads is another great step in the right direction as it is more fair than general sweeping crackdowns that effect the entire ATS community.

I will give credit where credit is due and I believe the ATS management has made a very careful and calculated decision that will help monitor the more trollish threads designed to incite racial ignorance.

Kudos to ATS management for handling this situation with a lot of thought and effort.

Edit: I am sceptical of this announcement. On the one hand it appears that staff are doing the right thing and purging the cancer that seeks to spread throughout the whole forum. On the other hand, it seems like this is a step closer to censorship.

Nevertheless, I do have faith in the ATS staff and if they think this decision will be in the best interests of the forum then so be it.

I agree, we need to learn from each other and entertain each other's ideas; Hopefully, we'll get back to the basics. I had been a long time lurker on this site and it always was the first site I checked about the news, the msm won't give us. I still respect the collective intelligence of the majority of the members on this site, and also applaud the effort to keep us civil to each other. We need to find the truth to things first and foremost.

I think this has needed to happen for a while, now. Truthfully, I was starting to wonder if the staff were asleep at the switch. It's good to find out that they weren't, but were simply attempting to figure out the fairest way of dealing with this.

Awesome stuff, Springer.

Originally posted by Leftist
I just hope ATS will err on the side of protecting freedom of speech rather than protecting group XYZ's "right to not feel offended."

Might sound funny coming from a commie like me, but there it is.

This conservative agrees with you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, some posts lately have been extremely racist, but the term racist has been thrown around so much lately just for not agreeing with someone.

reply to post by windword


Hey, good for you buddy! Glad to see your starting a business due to the fact you had to leave the last one. I started my first company because the opportunity presented itself, and never looked back. But a warning: Once you have done your own thing and discovered the freedom of being first your own and perhaps later "the" boss, or owner-associate as I like to say going back and working for someone else? For me thats biologically impossible. All the best, and truly hope you discover just why work is supposed to be fun, really fun...

Well, I love the site and enjoy hearing all sides including the racists and super sensitive types. Without the outlandish and offensive, you don't get to read all the clever rebuttals. Just hope things don't get carried away.

I just haven't seen this as that big a problem personally, but I only cruise 10 or 20 topics a day. I look at it like this, if a hateful argument doesn't have any merit, it shouldn't be that hard to argue or just ignore it. Every once in a while, offensive people have a point though.

I started a thread about Al Sharpton that got into the Trayvon/Zimmerman issues. It discussed racism. No one got crazy, but just the headline "Why Al Sharpton should be fired" might have gotten it killed now? I thought it had some value, thought the points were relevant. I think maybe some others did as well. Can't help but wonder if it would have been quashed because someone "felt" is was too much for a white guy to be talking about a black man that wasn't complementary.

You miss opportunities when you avoid every clash. I've gone into discussions feeling one way and after reading through, changed my mind completely, I try to keep an open mind. Racism is a powerful topic and everyone has strong feelings about it, I don't feel righteous enough to disqualify how anyone else feels, but that's just me.

I'm just concerned that once you start subjectively censoring, things will devolve into a bland boring politically correct AOLish bore. It's a private site, sure, but it's large enough to become a destination and people have invested a lot of themselves in it, all with knowledge, truth and a supposed freedom to express themselves surrounding every border, it would be a shame to trim more than the edges and cut away too much of the good stuff.

If it stays interesting, I'll keep coming here, if it gets out of hand, I'll just go somewhere else. Hope it works out.

One can understand that this forum cannot be a free-for-all, but it seems this latest move is a step closer to censorship than is needed.

I'm all for free speech, however if certain people are always stirring up chaos and derailing threads with nonsense/hatred/intolerance/trolling, what good is free speech if you can't really say anything? How could anyone get their point across, or feel comfortable getting their point across under such conditions? Then when these types are confronted they claim free speech and continue on with their nonsense.

Freedom is a wonderful thing, however we do have to abide by rules, both written and unwritten so things work properly. Besides, this is private property, the owners rules. It's fine to have a conservative type mindset, however we have to be careful not to venture into the realm of anarchism.

Proper rules concerning free speech allow us to communicate more effectively. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

Thanks.

If you are wanting to deny ignorance, then ignorance must have a voice. Otherwise, this marketplace of ideas becomes a platform for ATS to decide what speech is to be heard and what speech is not to be heard. Truth can only rise by its reflection to the ignorance standing beside it. One rises and the other falls on its face. Take away the reflection and you get a false image created by ATS moderators who become the thought police of the image. Imperfection allows room for the clear image to stand as transparent. This is the beauty of a place like ATS. For every ignorant perspective, there are those who stand against it with truth. I realize the intention, but intent would be better served to the members of ATS by allowing the market forces of ideas to work themselves out by the Law of Inverse Squares.

There is a difference between intention and intent. Intention is a hope. Intent is action by design. If you take the wrong action, you risk unintended consequences that could destroy the value here. The beauty of ATS, when I first arrived here as SuperiorEd, was the fact that this was an open forum of ideas. After being shut down for having a username that resembled my Blog and for posting MY OWN WORDS from my blog, I witnessed this stifling of speech first hand. The rule on posting my own material was meant for me it seems. I witness it done on a daily basis by others and they are still here. Why me? I'll tell you why me.

Let's be clear on the matter. I was banned as SuperiorEd the same weekend I posted truth over ignorance in two threads about Freemason deception on the world. I was then banned on Valentine's Day (Martyr's Day) after revealing the truth behind the Orphan Annie Cartoon. Will you be deleting that thread as well?

There is a saying: If you can't take the heat, don't tickle the dragon. ATS is a forum for tickling the dragon. Embrace the idea and own your rightful spot as an open forum for the free exchange of ideas. I defer to Oliver Wendell Holmes.

On my Blog (The one I am not aloud to mention on ATS), I wrote an article that was titled, "Sticky Thoughts that Stretch the Mind." The article was based on a quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes regarding a court case that stifled the free speech of three men and sentenced them to 20 years in prison. Since ATS has banned the use of my own words from my blog, I'll need to write this again in a different way. Here's the quote:

“A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions.”

This is a reference to hypertrophy (hī-ˈpər-trə-fē), or stretching muscle to gain size and strength. This stretching of the mind happens in a free marketplace of ideas where market forces dictate the worth of an idea. In essence, the people vote with their own minds, intellect and sense of the world around them. You may not like or appreciate the ideas, but you will grow because of them by reflection to your own perspective. The exercise stretches the mind. This allows growth that would otherwise rest dormant.

I'll also defer to Holmes on another quote:

"The ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas...that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year if not every day we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.”

Did you catch that? "we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country."

I say an immediate check is required on our Congress and President when it comes to freedom and liberty. I can say that, cant' I? Or can I ATS? Is that hate speech? It's truth to me. If it's not to you, don't ban me for saying it with the evidence from the Bible. Will the Bible be banned as well? Where is the line drawn? Provide your own context and live with my perspective or change it with your own. Have you checked the status of our freedom lately? Are you joining them or standing against this ignorance?

While I have not the slightest idea of what you're getting at...
I will follow the leader and agree... Why? because Racism is not acceptable...
And political correctness is not... tolerant?!?
Therefore since I am uneducated... lead good moderator lead....
I will follow and keep the ordinance...

NOTE: Please Report The Next Phase As I Am In Need Of Notice Of This Change In Policy...

Also: I am Pinocchio the Great!
Of Acacia Wood Was I Fashioned!; With Sh!ttim For My Thoughts!
Adorned In Fine Gold! BUT! But I Am Not The Ark Of The Covenant!
Although... I Did Break A Rock With A Stick Once...

YEA!!!!!!!!!!

or perhaps this is ATS reaction to the new Arizona bill that could criminalize internet trolling.....(and perhaps not, but isn't ATS based in Arizona - and hey, it is a conspiracy site after all)

www.abovetopsecret.com...


But at the end of the day, I don't own ATS and I don't make the rules. If the mods/admin/owners don't like what I have to say, then by all means punt my butt out the door. Guess I will have to see how this will be implemented in the upcoming days, weeks and longer. I know most of the middle eastern and political threads are full of heated discussion, what will be accepted and what will be deleted.

I think hate speech can be classified as "I'll [snipped] kill you, you God D***ed ______" fill in the blank for whatever you like the most type kind of talk. Debating the origins and nature of a subject can become heated, but such is the nature when you're discussing something that could be potentially stepping on someone else's toes, and to try to stop it with being politically correct more often than not infringes on freedom of speech, which is the problem we are having in the U.S. right now as our constitutional rights are being eroded away by politically correctness as certain factions vie for putting a gag order on first amendment rights.

Saving for tomorrow.

2nd

I was guilty of it, i agree with this statement, the more we see these types of things the more we get embroiled into it. I mean it could be a psych war in itself.

Ignorance should indeed have a voice...how else do we learn? What we, as staff, and as members who love ATS; are asking/demanding/expecting is that when you see ignorance, teach it, don't shout it down.

Because, odd as it may sound, in teaching the ignorant/uninformed we, too, learn something, or can if we're willing to listen.

Think twice, post once, then shut up for a moment and listen to the reply. Really listen...and think about how the member is approaching the topic...be it religion, or aliens, or cooking religious aliens. It takes a minimum of two to have a conversation, and that's what we're all here for...

...right?

We all have topics we're passionate about. ...and topics that make our blood boil.

We aren't asking you to lose the passion, or even the anger...what we're asking/demanding/expecting is to utilize not just your emotions, but your intellect. Not one of us, none, zip, zilch, nada, know everything about a topic, there's always some new snippet of knowledge to be learned. Some new and novel way to look at an issue.

But you can't learn if you're too busy shouting down people with whom you disagree. My grandfather used to say, "You don't learn by running your mouth, you learn by shutting it, and opening your ears." You don't get to the truth by yelling louder, you get to the truth by listening, and thinking.

...and you can only do that when you control the passion, and the anger. When they control you? Well we've seen the results all too clearly lately.