**ALL MEMBERS** The recent surge in Hatred, Racism, and Sheer Stupidity STOPS NOW.

I think the race baiting
against people who simply
disagree with you is not good.

Comment
AL sharpton spews hate speech

Reply
GO BACK TO STORM FRONT RACIST!!

I have seen people do this a lot
it would be terrible we had to loose
the social issues forum over
this crap..

reply to post by Springer


Thank You Springer...dedicated Staff also.

I've gotten to the point, I don't even click on certain subject threads, due to the overwhelming hatred expressed towards various segments of society. I've been guilty of getting involved in a couple of the mass media threads, but quickly learned it literally made me sick to my stomach, to read the vitriolic responses. What may have started as a possible debate, quickly morphed into a monster of hate and anger.

You are right, it's not good for the ATS community to harbor hatred. Ferret it out, the sooner the better.

Des

I just posted a question in this forum at the bottom of page 3.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now some may look at that question I posed in reply and see blatant racism. Looking at it from my perspective this is how I see it...

If one describes their inner city situation as out of control and the root cause is blamed on guns I think a well reasoned retort is describing how the culture is perpetuating the violence as opposed to inanimate objects as the root cause of that violence. You or one of the Overlords here may see it through a politically correct prism and put the hammer down. Now, my question may not have been too politically correct but I think it is a very fair question if we are discussing usurping the rights of the many so the few can "feel" safe.

As the site owner I guess you have the final say but I really question how this will be objectivity enforced when these debates go on for 10's if not 100's of pages and things may look, at first glance out of context.

Not that I am not guilty of taking a few shots here and there but I have taken more than I have given I think. At any rate, thanks for providing the service and I do like coming here. I guess I will have to be selective in which forums I partake in because some just spiral down into the idiotic... Again, a bit guilty there too.

reply to post by neformore


I think the term

Muslim apologist

would be comparable to

Christian apologist

It's a common professional, slightly technical term but also a fairly common term in the culture in general.

Basically, it means a proponent who is able to some degree of skill to articulate the reasons for belief in

Christianity

or

in their case, in Islam.

That's basically it. That's all it means.

It can be understood in more elaborated terms to mean someone who is very scholarly and who supports reasons for belief in very elaborate terms but it doe not have to mean only that.

reply to post by Springer

Textof "Hate Speech", Racism, and the utter ignorance they seek to sow in our beloved community and online home.

utter ignorance

Text"Hate Speech",

yea...it was getting out of hand.

reply to post by BO XIAN


wow, what a load.

a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc.

that's an apologist.

so, a muslim apologist is someone who defends the muslim faith.

reply to post by drock905

What has happened is that conspiracy theory has become the fad and now we are dealing with all the trolls, newbies and high school kids that come along with a fad.

Hope that it ends soon...

reply to post by BO XIAN


How does someone being knowledgeable of a faith make them an "apologist"?

Wouldn't it make them a scholar?

Originally posted by popsmayhem
I think the race baiting
against people who simply
disagree with you is not good.

Comment
AL sharpton spews hate speech

Reply
GO BACK TO STORM FRONT RACIST!!

I have seen people do this a lot
it would be terrible we had to loose
the social issues forum over
this crap..

edit on 3-4-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

well i hope you learned a lesson opsmayhem,thats all im going to say

I think the race baiting

I have seen people do this a lot

Yea, me too opsmayhem..me too.

Originally posted by neformore

What is a "muslim apologist", exactly?

ETA - I am asking this in a staff capacity.

edit on 3/4/12 by neformore because: (no reason given)

An apologist comes from the word apologia which refers to a speech or writing that defends something, in the case of a Muslim apologist it would most likely be a reference to someone who defends either Muslims in general or Islam, or the positions of either one.

In my case if I happen to see someone speaking from an ignorance (not a bad word) of something in Islam, then I do speak to correct the misconception, on this forum this has led people such as the person to whom made mention of Muslim apologists, call me a Muslim apologist.

However, it is simply explaining the truth and trying to expel a misconception mentioned by a poster(s). I would believe that something of that nature would be in keeping with the spirit of this forum.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
I think the race baiting
against people who simply
disagree with you is not good.

Comment
AL sharpton spews hate speech

Reply
GO BACK TO STORM FRONT RACIST!!

I have seen people do this a lot
it would be terrible we had to loose
the social issues forum over
this crap..

edit on 3-4-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

I agree it is hard to ignore mindless crap like that. I have been caught going down the rabbit hole on a few occasions, at least two I think where I got hammered by a MOD via a message in my inbox. Not sure how we weed out the mindless in the context of what they are attempting here.

Too many see the Tray/Zimmerman incident as a black and white issue when there is a ton of grey between that black and white. When you try and point that out, you are called a racist. I caught myself going down that rabbit hole again in that thread and I just had to walk away from it. Not sure how they will police the illogical.

Maybe put a hammer down on circular reasoning or disagreeing to the point of idiocy? Try and police that one! (Just kidding Mods)

I hope that this goes smoothly. This has indeed been a difficult thing to go around lately, hopefully people will understand what needed to be said and follow what needs to be done to get ATS out of the rut of the MSM rhetoric that has taken up space.

I will say thank you ATS, and staff. I never truly understood why you guys took the time to right wrongs by having to write threads like this, but it is still appreciated.

Peace, NRE.

Just an idea Springer/Staff. Have you considered sending this notice out in one of the mass u2u's. I fear many will miss this thread. It's a pretty important message for all to hear.

JMOHO...Des

Too bad sarcastic insults weren't included in the title.

That's what really needs to stop imo.

reply to post by Springer



CONTINUING . . .

"Is what I am about to post a genuine attempt at civil discourse/debate about the topic or, am I trying to scream at the world and force my personal beliefs down everyone else's throat?"

I think the problem with this one will be . . .

--that folks who PERCEIVE THEMSELVES

--as mods or ATS users

1. to be "screamed at" whether the author had such intentions or not; wrote in a 'screaming' fashion or tone, or not

because

2. their psychology is quick to perceive others as screaming at them regardless of the facts

3. their position is made to look significantly weaker than the author's

4. their assertions have been shown to be weaker or false or disingenuous or deceptive or whatever such

I'd LOVE a way to avoid such accusations before they start. IF ANY OF YOU can give me or us some guidelines AND PREFERABLY EXAMPLES as to how to avoid such--WONDERFUL.

I'm skeptical. I've almost begged for examples for years hereon--to no effect.

Sooooo what would be

DISALLOWED
SCREAMING .............VS .........NOT SCREAMING BUT FORCEFUL WRITING SAYING SIMILAR STUFF?

IT VERY MUCH SEEMS TO OFTEN OCCUR that folks PERSONAL SENSIBILITIES get tweaked

and they runn wailing about whatever the T&C criteria is that's handiest to support their wounded sensibilities and wailing. That's unimpressive and a stinking pile, personally.

IF THE GOAL IS TO CARRY EVERYONE AROUND ON RABBIT FUR AND FOAM RUBBER AND TO NEVER RUFFLE the BRITTLE FOLKS SENSIBILITIES

then . . . this is all a HOPELESS, DOOMED farce to begin with. I HOPE that's not the case. I'm beginning to wonder.

"Is this thread I am creating an honest attempt at civil discourse/debate about the subject or, am I trying to sow as much hatred as I can about the evil ___________s to wake people up to the fact they are scum?"

OF COURSE I'M PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN DIALOGUE.

VIGOROUS DIALOGUE IS ONE OF MY MOST FAVORITE RECREATIONS AND HAS BEEN SO MOST OF MY 65 YEARS.

As I've repeatedly noted, I don't even really hate satan himself very often. I hate what he's done and does and his values and methods but not his person, per se. I don't even hate Hillary or Obama though I hate what they have done, plan and do. THAT'S DIFFERENT.

Often correspondents BEHAVE AND RESPOND AS THOUGH there is NO difference between the person and the actions . . . or between specific beliefs or specific individuals and a group or between a sub group and the whole group. THAT'S DISINGENUOUS AND A DOUBLE STANDARD AT SOME POINT. Sheesh.

I have spent my adult professional life bridging marriage partners, parents and children; group members with leadership etc. Agreement and unity where workable are deeply and intensely held values of mine.

I HAVE FOUND, HOWEVER, THAT UNITY AND EVEN LOVE AND CARING MUST HAVE TO DO WITH A FOUNDATION OF TRUTH.

NO TRUTH AND THE FOUNDATION IS CORRUPT TO BEGIN WITH.

I realize that the truth can be and is often PERCEIVED TO BE--REGARDLESS--AS BRUTAL. I try to avoid unnecessary brutality in how I word things and in my writing tone.

Nevertheless, there are frequently times when the issues or the context or the contentions of the other side are

BEST RESPONDED TO--MOST EFFECTIVELY RESPONDED TO

WITH very forceful words and logic.

MANY ATSers--often seemingly mods--seem to REACT to civil yet intense wording as though it were hateful when there's not been a shred of hate or ill will involved whatsoever. That's VERY FRUSTRATING.

"Is what I am about to post a clever attempt at sounding like I am seeking honest, civil discourse/debate about the topic so I can claim innocence when my thread gets removed and I get banned or, is it truly my attempt at understanding and learning?"

At 65, I'm not that interested in pretense. Particularly when trying to have authentic vigorous dialogue.

I'm certainly happy for increased understanding and learning and usually experience some such most every time I come on ATS daily and that's one of the reasons I do return time and again.

Some of your mods are quite perceptive and understand where I'm coming from in my personality and my values and my Christianity quite well. And not only the seemingly very few Christian mods seem to understand me well.

Others seem to have absolutely NO CLUE about me and persistently BLACKWASH me up one side and down the other . . . SEEMINGLY looking for whatever excuse they can to delete a post or somehow otherwise hinder my postings of my perspectives and values.

It is still important to do what little I can to post my values that are sooooo sparsely and weakly represented on ATS

COMPARED TO VALUES SCREAMINGLY HOSTILE to mine.

Continued . . . out of characters.
.

reply to post by Springer


this is great thanks for taking the time to do this. it will be quiet refreshing not to have to deal with this on the forums any more...


i sincerely appreciate it and again thanks very much for the effort.

Originally posted by TruckDriver69

I agree it is hard to ignore mindless crap like that. I have been caught going down the rabbit hole on a few occasions

. Not sure how we weed out the mindless in the context of what they are attempting here.

Not sure how they will police the illogical.

Maybe put a hammer down on circular reasoning or disagreeing to the point of idiocy? Try and police that one!

(Just kidding Mods)

lol, I believe it is easy to go down that rabbit hole... I on many occasions have gotten angry and then had to step back and say no, no, no, I wont say it....lol

The stuff people post is just crazy stupid at times....

Originally posted by TruckDriver69
Too many see the Tray/Zimmerman incident as a black and white issue when there is a ton of grey between that black and white. When you try and point that out, you are called a racist. I caught myself going down that rabbit hole again in that thread and I just had to walk away from it. Not sure how they will police the illogical.

Maybe put a hammer down on circular reasoning or disagreeing to the point of idiocy? Try and police that one!

(Just kidding Mods)

My new motto, since I do not want
to loose the social forum is

When in doubt have a mod check it out

I'll pm a mod to make sure before
we let the trolls get certain sub forums
taken from us. just like that certain conspiracy in chemicals one i heard people mention
USE to be here..

reply to post by Jameela


And as long as your intent is to share the truth in a civil, respectable manner (and your posting history supports that assertion) you will never have a problem here. Neither will anyone else of any other religious background or belief.

It's those who seek to "preach" or "pontificate" with no interest in civil discourse or debate because they "know" they are right, that will have issues here. Those who seek to sow intolerance, hate, racism or any other form of ignorance will have an issue too.

We don't do ignorance here, at least we try our dead level best to abolish it. I want to be clear, opinions we don't agree with are not "ignorant" based on that singular criteria, that doesn't fly either.

Springer...

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by neformore

What is a "muslim apologist", exactly?

ETA - I am asking this in a staff capacity.

edit on 3/4/12 by neformore because: (no reason given)

An apologist comes from the word apologia which refers to a speech or writing that defends something, in the case of a Muslim apologist it would most likely be a reference to someone who defends either Muslims in general or Islam, or the positions of either one.

In my case if I happen to see someone speaking from an ignorance (not a bad word) of something in Islam, then I do speak to correct the misconception, on this forum this has led people such as the person to whom made mention of Muslim apologists, call me a Muslim apologist.

However, it is simply explaining the truth and trying to expel a misconception mentioned by a poster(s). I would believe that something of that nature would be in keeping with the spirit of this forum.

I hope this helps.

edit on 3-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

INDEED. QUITE SO.

I don't recall a huge problem in dialgoues with you, BTW.

I'm thankful for that and greatly respect that.