Do you consider yourself Australian?

Originally posted by ExShill
Question for australians:

Do you see your national identity growing stronger or weaker as time goes on?

I think that TBTB are thwarting the main stream culture by subverting the local cultures with an idealistic mind set that helps the 'have's', and disenfranchises the have-not's.

That's about as far I go with regards to TBTB. I'm referring to basic political structures, the media and wealth set, though not even politicians who can be ordinary, average Aussies. It's just that our society is at a certain level where ideologies conflict and our 'modern western' thinking hopes for equality, but TBTB can easily subvert the process, staying rich and making others pay.

There is no doubt that Australia's identity will grow stronger, but maybe into something a bit more like America as we will grow in population size and wealth, so therefore become more important on the national stage.

That's my first thought.. interesting question

reply to post by Jace26

I respectfully disagree on your comment about Aborigines acting ''fake-friendly''

I can only talk about isolated incidents as there isn't a real aboriginal presence in Victoria. They weren't so much fake friendly, as they were polite and cold in a way they learned from white people. It was a way to put distance between us. They also made comments about why a black guy would be friends with a white guy. He was more shocked than me. The aboriginals I see / meet here are almost always very politically driven. For some reason they seem to adopt the worst stereotypes imaginable.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Jace26

 

We slaughtered their culture, their beliefs, their values, we introduced them to alcohol, to all the bad habits that they knew nothing of. We, basically, were the serpent in the garden of eden.

We may not have killed that large of a number only because they were tribal and lived sparsely. Doesn't mean the land wasn't theirs. They were great spiritual people in tune with the earth. Now only a few reflect what they once were.

You can live in denial all you like. My whole family is racist against anything other than white
(anglo-saxon) australians and my mothers Nissan 300zx was stolen by a gang of Aboriginal youths....but I don't care.

This is our karma. All these immigrants, and the discourse it brings to the 'settled' people of Australia, are now reaping what the English once sowed for us.

edit on 3-4-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-4-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

I see you as part of the problem and not part of the cure. You can make all the allowances that you like, but if these people are capable of doing better why do you have separate rules for them to enable them to steal your mums car etc?

There is no way they could act that way before white people came and it would help if you gave them the respect to take personal responsibility for their actions.

Also I don't see why you should single them out in such a stark way when you decided for us what special treatment they deserve. You only create a more us v them mentality and foster even more racism from both sides.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Jace26

 

We slaughtered their culture, their beliefs, their values, we introduced them to alcohol, to all the bad habits that they knew nothing of. We, basically, were the serpent in the garden of eden.

We may not have killed that large of a number only because they were tribal and lived sparsely. Doesn't mean the land wasn't theirs. They were great spiritual people in tune with the earth. Now only a few reflect what they once were.

You can live in denial all you like. My whole family is racist against anything other than white
(anglo-saxon) australians and my mothers Nissan 300zx was stolen by a gang of Aboriginal youths....but I don't care.

This is our karma. All these immigrants, and the discourse it brings to the 'settled' people of Australia, are now reaping what the English once sowed for us.

edit on 3-4-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-4-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

Oh please, you make it seem the Indigenous lived in some great utopia before the British came. The Indigenous regularly fought wars against other tribes for land, power, etc.
And in fact you would realise that modern Indigenous (the ones we know of today) only arrived here about 15,000 years ago from Indonesia. It is commonly known an even older (possibly truely native race of people) lived here before the Indigenous, to which they are referred to as the Wandjina. The Wandjina were a pale skinned race who supposedely stood as tall as the trees, until they were hunted to extinction. In Darwin there have been bones found to be too large to be of any known mammal, and some date to 50,000 years old.

The Indigenous were nomadic in nature, they never had ownership of the land. Ask yourself, how can you own something which you cannot defend?

Well it seems your family would be racist to me as well now wouldn't it.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Jace26

 

We slaughtered their culture, their beliefs, their values, we introduced them to alcohol, to all the bad habits that they knew nothing of. We, basically, were the serpent in the garden of eden.

We may not have killed that large of a number only because they were tribal and lived sparsely. Doesn't mean the land wasn't theirs. They were great spiritual people in tune with the earth. Now only a few reflect what they once were.

You can live in denial all you like. My whole family is racist against anything other than white australians and my mothers Nissan 300zx was stolen by a gang of Aboriginal youths....but I don't care.

This is our karma. All these immigrants, and the discourse it brings to the 'settled' people of Australia, are now reaping what the English once sowed for us.

edit on 3-4-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

I believe that your post extols the PC BS.

You make it sound as if the Aboriginals were living in the gardens of eden.

How about a reality check! Aboriginals were still in a prehistoric age. They hunted with spears as the primary weapon. They were nomadic and tribal. Tribal warfare was rife amongst certain tribes. In a drought, many died. They ate snakes, lizards and insects. They did not grow food. The death rate amongst their children was huge as one would expect.

More importantly this all happened before any of us were alive. Get over the ancient history. Welcome to the 21st century. It is time they take responsibility for their own lives. It is not white men that cause the problems that Aboriginals have, it is the Aboriginal people themselves. A great many happily live in multicultural Australia with their traditions intact. Many are so engrossed in the victim mentally accepting Govt handouts that they have no intention of living fulfilling lives. I can't change that. If I could, I would.

Australia is not a racist country, far from it. We are however a people who can still scoff at PC and we say what we mean. (politicians excepted)

P

Originally posted by Indigo2
I am an Australian who was born in the UK and moved here in the early 90s.
There has been a huge influx in Sudanese, Indian and asian residents, all of which i welcome because multiculturalism is a good thing.
I have never had any problems with Africans, asians or indians for that matter.
The Problem is this:
1. Australians in general have always had a very old and dated opinion on foreigners coming here and a lot of them carry racist undertones because they feel that the Australian culture or way of life will be threatned. But the fact is Australian identity is made up of ideals that are not all unique to this country because Australia has a bit of an identity crisis and has struggeled to define itself since British colonisation.

2. We let our government walk all over us in Australia.

Surely if the Australian Government was serious about proper integration, then they would explain and educate us as to why we have had a huge influx in Sudanese and Indians and about the problems that some have had in their home country instead of remaining silent. I think part of the problem is that most Australians have seen all of them come here overnight without knowing what is going on!

I welcome all these different cultures into this great country because it makes things so much more interesting and vibrant and diversity is exactly what this country needs.

What i don't like about it is that the government needs to address the infastructure as the influx of immigrants has strectched our Transport Systems, Housing Market ( especially rental ) and more jobs need to be created.
I know for a fact that this is what a lot of Australians have a problem with.

Please dont blame the immigrants. BLAME THE GOVERNMENT for lack of communication and make them accountable for expanding our Infarstructure.

I hope that made some sort of sense and sorry for the spelling.




On another point, i fear Aboriginal Culture will be in jepordy in the near future. I dont think anyone has ever stopped to think about what impact that the immigration boom will have an Indiginous people and the culture in the near future. I have, and i would like others to really think about it.

edit on 3-4-2012 by Indigo2 because: (no reason given)

Wrong, as someone who is not from a British background I can tell you now, Australia has its own identity, but Australians themselves have never felt they needed to change their "bogan" identity until multiculturism began. Since then they have felt "insecure" about what it means to be Australian as different ethnicities now enter.

You still fail to answer me properly. Why don't we see these Sudanese, Indians, and Asians celebrating Australia, why don't we see them mourning the nations dead in Gallipoli or Kokoda pilgrimages?
And why after 8 pages in has still not a singly non-white person been able to answer my question.

Do you consider yourself Australian?

Originally posted by squandered
reply to post by Jace26

 

I respectfully disagree on your comment about Aborigines acting ''fake-friendly''

I can only talk about isolated incidents as there isn't a real aboriginal presence in Victoria. They weren't so much fake friendly, as they were polite and cold in a way they learned from white people. It was a way to put distance between us. They also made comments about why a black guy would be friends with a white guy. He was more shocked than me. The aboriginals I see / meet here are almost always very politically driven. For some reason they seem to adopt the worst stereotypes imaginable.

Yeah I suppose your right on that.

reply to post by Jace26


Yes i 100% consider myself an Australian! i maybe from a british background but then again, so are most Australians.. I understood what Australians belive to be national identity, from living here for 19 years and from Studying Australian Studies and a .lot of research. Although you can not form an opionion like mine without questioning the status quo.

Why should sudanese feel obliged to mourn on anzac day? that is rediculous

reply to post by squandered


lol@ one person telling someone they're not welcome in a country made up of millions.

Ego much?

reply to post by squandered


No, they never knew of alcohol. They didn't have these 'intoxicants'.

They don't deserve separate rules, and I don't make allowances and I hoped they would get caught. I don't think anyone should make 'special' rules for anyone but I do think that most of what is happening now is karma for what the English did to them.

How am I part of the problem when I treat no-one differently. I treat everyone as equals but I openly accept that my forefathers destroyed the aboriginal culture. That was their lifestyle, that was how they evolved, in tune with the earth.

reply to post by Jace26


Firstly, the Wandjina were the Giants/Nephilim. They may have been hunted to exctinction but not by the Aboriginal people. Secondly WHO CARES IF THEY WEREN'T MODERNIZED. It was still their land and it was taken from them. Their women were systematically raped and their bloodline has been attempted to be diluted to destroy their people. These are facts...not lies. I care about ALL of Ancient history...not just the Aboriginal people. You realise that they let nature keep their population in check. Something we've forgotten to do and the time now approaches that this Earth will do it for us, globally, while you all sit here and act all self-righteous because they were Nomadic and not modernized. Get a grip. I only care that white man came here and destroyed a special culture. It wasn't right and nor was the treatment.

If you're white, my family would still talk with you but asian or dark skinned and they'd try not to talk to you. When we have family barbeques it is vulgar aboriginal and asian jokes all around. I generally go for a walk.

reply to post by pheonix358


PC annoys the hell out of me. I'm not part of the PC problem. I know they need to take responsibility. My mum reacted rather racist to the incident so I thought with a mentality like that maybe she was deserving of losing her nice car. Yes, the modern aboriginals need to rise out of the shadow of the their tragic history.

As for all the immigration, I liked whoever blamed it on the government because that is the real issue.

It is still all karma related. Life is just lessons.

reply to post by Jace26


I'm a NZ born Australian and I consider myself more a member of the Commonwealth Nations rather than tagging myself Australian or NZer with deep family roots in England, Canada, NZ, Australia, France, USA and Israel.

reply to post by Jace26

And in fact you would realise that modern Indigenous (the ones we know of today) only arrived here about 15,000 years ago from Indonesia.

With respect, my understanding is that the land between Australia and Indonesia is where is was all happening because that area was fertile grasslands. The dingo has only been in Australia for around 5000 years. The people that brought them were a recent arrival, but other people came from just about everywhere, inc Egypt and South America. Also, the people on the coast were completely different from the dessert tribes. Early settlers counted 7 distinctly different racial types amongst aborigines.

By enlarge they represent the same groups of people that inhabited all of Southern Asia 5,000-10,000 years ago.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by squandered

 

lol@ one person telling someone they're not welcome in a country made up of millions.

Ego much?

Says the guy who started this by saying he is too good for the place.
I only said that your unwelcome because you don't like the way the people are, so... (by obvious standards that apply to all people in all places), if you don't like it here, don't come here and perhaps you could learn to keep your judgements to yourself. It's not as if you know anything about Australia anyway.

reply to post by LightAssassin

Their women were systematically raped and their bloodline has been attempted to be diluted to destroy their people

I stopped reading.. I mean if you have to make stuff up

reply to post by squandered


I never said I was too good for Australia. You must have posts confused.

reply to post by RealSpoke

I would hate to be a migrant in Australia, it seems worse with racists than the USA ;(

It's not unlikely that I have overreacted, but your post rings a few bells.

1. Seeing the deep seated issue of racial tension in the US, that's a huge call.
2. We treat migrants very well. We just don't hold back our feelings.
Case in point, just before now I was with a Turk and Afghan and a Brit in a workshop, all of whom were picking on each others culture. The OP was honest but he gets called a racist, yet all we see is healthy discourse. In actual fact people from all places are doing very well in Australia without any of the barriers you'll find in Europe and parts of America.
3. "worse with racists" obviously refers to white people who mention negative things about people with obvious racial traits. You know - it's racist to sideline white people to ignore the rest as if you have some implied right based on your race.

Originally posted by Indigo2
reply to post by Jace26

 

Yes i 100% consider myself an Australian! i maybe from a british background but then again, so are most Australians.. I understood what Australians belive to be national identity, from living here for 19 years and from Studying Australian Studies and a .lot of research. Although you can not form an opionion like mine without questioning the status quo.

Why should sudanese feel obliged to mourn on anzac day? that is rediculous

Why shouldn't they?
Its an integral part of the Australian identity.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by squandered

 

No, they never knew of alcohol. They didn't have these 'intoxicants'.

They don't deserve separate rules, and I don't make allowances and I hoped they would get caught. I don't think anyone should make 'special' rules for anyone but I do think that most of what is happening now is karma for what the English did to them.

How am I part of the problem when I treat no-one differently. I treat everyone as equals but I openly accept that my forefathers destroyed the aboriginal culture. That was their lifestyle, that was how they evolved, in tune with the earth.

reply to post by Jace26

 

Firstly, the Wandjina were the Giants/Nephilim. They may have been hunted to exctinction but not by the Aboriginal people. Secondly WHO CARES IF THEY WEREN'T MODERNIZED. It was still their land and it was taken from them. Their women were systematically raped and their bloodline has been attempted to be diluted to destroy their people. These are facts...not lies. I care about ALL of Ancient history...not just the Aboriginal people. You realise that they let nature keep their population in check. Something we've forgotten to do and the time now approaches that this Earth will do it for us, globally, while you all sit here and act all self-righteous because they were Nomadic and not modernized. Get a grip. I only care that white man came here and destroyed a special culture. It wasn't right and nor was the treatment.

If you're white, my family would still talk with you but asian or dark skinned and they'd try not to talk to you. When we have family barbeques it is vulgar aboriginal and asian jokes all around. I generally go for a walk.

reply to post by pheonix358

 

PC annoys the hell out of me. I'm not part of the PC problem. I know they need to take responsibility. My mum reacted rather racist to the incident so I thought with a mentality like that maybe she was deserving of losing her nice car. Yes, the modern aboriginals need to rise out of the shadow of the their tragic history.

As for all the immigration, I liked whoever blamed it on the government because that is the real issue.

It is still all karma related. Life is just lessons.

edit on 3-4-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

Actually Aboriginals did know of alcohol before the British came, its just that the British were able to mass produce it while they took months and months to ferment native plants.

Secondly, you do realise the fire burning practices of the Aboriginals is what turned Australia into a desert. Before they came it was a rainforest continent, they didn't look after the environment they destroyed it far worse than the British could ever hope of doing.

Originally posted by Jace26

Where on earth did you get "light-coloured" from me saying "2-3 generations but still nothing"????

this line shows exactly the kind of person you are. You try to attribute a line like this to me even though i said nothing of the sort.

My comment was ;

so you actually admit that it is most lightly australians you are talking about,

as an alternative to 'most likely' . you are fully aware that this comment has nothing to do with skin color yet you try to twist it into that. You are exhibiting the behaviour of a troll.

Nope, not Australian.
Would like to visit.
Visit Uluru.
Learn about a 30,000 year old culture.
And the people that make up the current culture too.
I think it's also fascinating that most of the indigenous mammals have pouches.
And others lay eggs.
I also remember something about the great pinnacle desert, or something like that.