Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Sure let's allow men to go into the girls bathroom next.

As long as they dress as a woman, they should be allowed in the women's bathroom.

That's the logical next step right?

I hope you women enjoy having men dressed as women spying on you in public restrooms!!

LMAO that actually happened to me, I am a female, born that way mind you lol and I was in the washroom of this crazy club on the north side of Chicago, (North side, I should of known right ;-P) anyhoo this beautiful woman a big strong woman mind you walked in and wanted to get past me, she said, "Excuse me sweetheart and put her big strong hands on my shoulders, thats when I knew this was a guy, he was transgender and the sweetest thing, didn't bother me though because the club we went into I found out was a crazy no one is excluded crowd, meaning a crowd that would never be accepted into a normal bar, someone walked past me with a person attached to a leash.
as for pagents, it's cheating that girl/guy has had a TON of plastic surgery, that should disqualify him/her to begin with, it's not fair to the other contestants. what would be hilarious is Donald Trumps face if he is forced to let them compete next year and it's all trannies.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It's hard sometimes.. Especially in discussions like these.. Sort of like a mexican stand off. One person shoots, everyone shoots. Except fortunately no bullets here.

I actually am curious to this myself.. They only indicate that she lied on an application.

I'd give it the possibility that she wanted to be discovered.. and that this is a move for transgendered rights. It does seem a least a bit dishonest and scheming.

There was no real way they could have found this out on their own. As she's probably had even her birth certificate changed at this point, those records are confidential, and why would they check anyways? I doubt they have gynecological exams as part of the competition, lol.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_
If one wear a dog fur and start barking everyone's going to say he's insane, if only his political beliefs goes against the popular beliefs that are considered "normal" he'll be classified mentally unfit... Yet a male can get physically changed into what "appears" to be something he can't ever be yet we're supposed to view it as an original woman?

I'm sorry but there's mental, hormonal and chemical difference between a woman and a man and no matter how much you spend on surgery you'll never be a real woman... Mental instability is a dead end in this case you can't live a fantasy forever without starting to believe into it and when reality and fantasy starts to blend issues come out...

I can paint my car and put a body kit and make it look like a Ferrari and it'll be fun but I won't start to drive it around trying to shove people's throat its an original one and I won't get pissed when people is pointing out its not a real Ferrari and I CERTAINLY won't get into exotic car shows with a kit car cuz in the end its ALWAYS GOING TO BE A FAKE...

edit on 4-4-2012 by _R4t_ because: (no reason given)

You are a person that has never been to a Sci-Fi/Fantasy convention.

Yes you are right, when I watch a movie I enjoy it for what it is, I get into it while its playing then when its over its over... I get back on earth and resume back to my life I don't cling to fantasy and imagination.

I mean if someone watches superman and cannot resist to the urge of going to a gathering of guys all dressed in superman just so they can imagine being their own hero for a day disregarding the fact that in the end they'll be wearing blue and red spandex and a cape in public... Something went wrong during their childhoods or something...

Im wondering if someone actually said something to her, or if she came out on her own, cause I was looking at pictures of her now and it's like she looks like a woman even down to the waist, thats how you know if its a man look at the waist and hips, this guy/girl has hips and a waist like a girl, how much plastic surgery did she/he have?, aside from the blatant cheek implants and chin tuck, she/he just looks like a woman with plastic surgery, still should disqualify her/him for that, but Im sure a lot of other real woman in that pagent had er um a couple of sugeries lol.

Originally posted by _R4t_
Yes you are right, when I watch a movie I enjoy it for what it is, I get into it while its playing then when its over its over... I get back on earth and resume back to my life I don't cling to fantasy and imagination.

I mean if someone watches superman and cannot resist to the urge of going to a gathering of guys all dressed in superman just so they can imagine being their own hero for a day disregarding the fact that in the end they'll be wearing blue and red spandex and a cape in public... Something went wrong during their childhoods or something...

I am sorry for you. The idea that you truly feel superior to those that enjoy a different lifestyle than yourself must be hard to maintain. Not to stray, even for a moment, from such a rigid path must be incredibly tiring. I guess my question becomes..

..how do you feel about people in sports jerseys? Are they merely fools running around with someone else's name on their backs?

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_
Yes you are right, when I watch a movie I enjoy it for what it is, I get into it while its playing then when its over its over... I get back on earth and resume back to my life I don't cling to fantasy and imagination.

I mean if someone watches superman and cannot resist to the urge of going to a gathering of guys all dressed in superman just so they can imagine being their own hero for a day disregarding the fact that in the end they'll be wearing blue and red spandex and a cape in public... Something went wrong during their childhoods or something...

I am sorry for you. The idea that you truly feel superior to those that enjoy a different lifestyle than yourself must be hard to maintain. Not to stray, even for a moment, from such a rigid path must be incredibly tiring. I guess my question becomes..

..how do you feel about people in sports jerseys? Are they merely fools running around with someone else's name on their backs?

lol I guess all I'm trying to say is how can one ever be happy when your living a lie??? How can one ever find peace of mind and happiness if you can't even learn to appreciate the very basic that your already have...

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_
Yes you are right, when I watch a movie I enjoy it for what it is, I get into it while its playing then when its over its over... I get back on earth and resume back to my life I don't cling to fantasy and imagination.

I mean if someone watches superman and cannot resist to the urge of going to a gathering of guys all dressed in superman just so they can imagine being their own hero for a day disregarding the fact that in the end they'll be wearing blue and red spandex and a cape in public... Something went wrong during their childhoods or something...

I am sorry for you. The idea that you truly feel superior to those that enjoy a different lifestyle than yourself must be hard to maintain. Not to stray, even for a moment, from such a rigid path must be incredibly tiring. I guess my question becomes..

..how do you feel about people in sports jerseys? Are they merely fools running around with someone else's name on their backs?

lol I guess all I'm trying to say is how can one ever be happy when your living a lie??? How can one ever find peace of mind and happiness if you can't even learn to appreciate the very basic that your already have...

The idea that someone is 'living a lie' because they do not fit into your view of how people should be is a fairly egocentric viewpoint. Perhaps the lie that this person was able to free herself from was the mantle of being labeled a man.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_
Yes you are right, when I watch a movie I enjoy it for what it is, I get into it while its playing then when its over its over... I get back on earth and resume back to my life I don't cling to fantasy and imagination.

I mean if someone watches superman and cannot resist to the urge of going to a gathering of guys all dressed in superman just so they can imagine being their own hero for a day disregarding the fact that in the end they'll be wearing blue and red spandex and a cape in public... Something went wrong during their childhoods or something...

I am sorry for you. The idea that you truly feel superior to those that enjoy a different lifestyle than yourself must be hard to maintain. Not to stray, even for a moment, from such a rigid path must be incredibly tiring. I guess my question becomes..

..how do you feel about people in sports jerseys? Are they merely fools running around with someone else's name on their backs?

lol I guess all I'm trying to say is how can one ever be happy when your living a lie??? How can one ever find peace of mind and happiness if you can't even learn to appreciate the very basic that your already have...

The idea that someone is 'living a lie' because they do not fit into your view of how people should be is a fairly egocentric viewpoint. Perhaps the lie that this person was able to free herself from was the mantle of being labeled a man.

But they'll still never be a woman... Even though I'd love to be a bird and fly if I shave my head and shove a handful of feathers up my rear and run around flapping my arms I ain't going to magically turn into a canadian bald eagle... Its just not going to happen... Its the not the why and the how but the action itself of physically getting your penis cut off and used to make a vaginal canal and shape your genitals into something that appears to be a vagina and walk around seducing men because you can fake the physical things a man like into a woman that you'll ever be a woman anyways...

Just because we have attained a level of technology where it is scientifically possible to modify the human body to look alike another gender you cannot "morph" into another gender... You'll never EVER be another gender now you can't walk around and blame people for not accepting you for something your not... Because you just ain't ever going to f**** be no matter how much you desperately want to...

reply to post by _R4t_


Define for me exactly what one must have in order to be classified as a "real woman."

We all come in a limitless variety of shapes, colors and sizes. Rather than reject a persons right to self determination, we should embrace those who are true to themselves and are willing to walk the less popular path regardless of popular opinion.

It's a beauty pageant, and although I love to look at beautiful women, in reality pageants like this do a lot of harm to women, in that they objectify women and send a message that beauty, and only one standard of beauty is how women should be and will be judged. These contestants represent only a handful of what women really look like....if you're too busty, you can't compete, if you're too short, you can't compete....If you're too tall or too thick or your nose is too long you can't compete. Seeing how this isn't even a measure what our women are like in reality, why would we care if there is a transgendered person competing? We'd be better off without these pageants and with all the focus we put on them.

Trust me; this isn't going to be the downfall of civilization.

Originally posted by ~Vixen~
reply to post by _R4t_

 

Define for me exactly what one must have in order to be classified as a "real woman."

We all come in a limitless variety of shapes, colors and sizes. Rather than reject a persons right to self determination, we should embrace those who are true to themselves and are willing to walk the less popular path regardless of popular opinion.

Ovaries...

My point is if you live in direct contradiction of what/who you really are and yet still try to lie to yourself in believing something you can't ever really be how can you ever find happiness in life... Just stop for a second and be yourself its much less complicated and people will love you for who you are not the image your chasing...

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_
Yes you are right, when I watch a movie I enjoy it for what it is, I get into it while its playing then when its over its over... I get back on earth and resume back to my life I don't cling to fantasy and imagination.

I mean if someone watches superman and cannot resist to the urge of going to a gathering of guys all dressed in superman just so they can imagine being their own hero for a day disregarding the fact that in the end they'll be wearing blue and red spandex and a cape in public... Something went wrong during their childhoods or something...

I am sorry for you. The idea that you truly feel superior to those that enjoy a different lifestyle than yourself must be hard to maintain. Not to stray, even for a moment, from such a rigid path must be incredibly tiring. I guess my question becomes..

..how do you feel about people in sports jerseys? Are they merely fools running around with someone else's name on their backs?

lol I guess all I'm trying to say is how can one ever be happy when your living a lie??? How can one ever find peace of mind and happiness if you can't even learn to appreciate the very basic that your already have...

The idea that someone is 'living a lie' because they do not fit into your view of how people should be is a fairly egocentric viewpoint. Perhaps the lie that this person was able to free herself from was the mantle of being labeled a man.

But they'll still never be a woman... Even though I'd love to be a bird and fly if I shave my head and shove a handful of feathers up my rear and run around flapping my arms I ain't going to magically turn into a canadian bald eagle... Its just not going to happen... Its the not the why and the how but the action itself of physically getting your penis cut off and used to make a vaginal canal and shape your genitals into something that appears to be a vagina and walk around seducing men because you can fake the physical things a man like into a woman that you'll ever be a woman anyways…

To use your own bird analogy..

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..

Just because we have attained a level of technology where it is scientifically possible to modify the human body to look alike another gender you cannot "morph" into another gender… You'll never EVER be another gender now you can't walk around and blame people for not accepting you for something your not... Because you just ain't ever going to f**** be no matter how much you desperately want to…

Gender is a social construct. Please see the multitude of posts in this thread by me explaining this idea.

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by ~Vixen~
reply to post by _R4t_

 

Define for me exactly what one must have in order to be classified as a "real woman."

We all come in a limitless variety of shapes, colors and sizes. Rather than reject a persons right to self determination, we should embrace those who are true to themselves and are willing to walk the less popular path regardless of popular opinion.

Ovaries...

My point is if you live in direct contradiction of what/who you really are and yet still try to lie to yourself in believing something you can't ever really be how can you ever find happiness in life... Just stop for a second and be yourself its much less complicated and people will love you for who you are not the image your chasing...

I know dozens of women who have had complete hysterectomies/oophorectomies. Are they no longer women because their ovaries have been removed?

Who are you to tell someone else that they cannot ever find happiness? Who has granted you that kind of moral authority? I hope you aren't a parent.

reply to post by _R4t_


Ok. Say a woman got ovarian cancer and they are removed is she not still a woman? But according to you if she has no ovaries shes not a woman. Some news on that front though. they are working on creating full working vaginas now with the help of stem cells with no rejection. So in 20 yrs or less if you want to become a full woman you can finally be. What will the argument be then?

All of this cosmetic surgery and visual manipulation reminds me of a joke.
A woman had a (heart attack, I think) and ended up in the hospital. While unconscious, she sees a vision (or hears a voice, idk which) of G-d. He tells her that it's not her time yet and that she'll have an additional 15 years before meeting Him. She comes to and is so elated that she decides that she may as well use her time at the hospital to have some much needed surgical improvements, getting her nose done, her boobs, etc...
As she leaves the hospital and is crossing the street, a bus hits her and she finds herself again unconscious and in communication with G-d. She realizes that she has died and asks him why, when she had 15 years left.
He tells her that it was His mistake and that He hadn't recognized her. lol

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by ~Vixen~
reply to post by _R4t_

 

Define for me exactly what one must have in order to be classified as a "real woman."

We all come in a limitless variety of shapes, colors and sizes. Rather than reject a persons right to self determination, we should embrace those who are true to themselves and are willing to walk the less popular path regardless of popular opinion.

Ovaries...

My point is if you live in direct contradiction of what/who you really are and yet still try to lie to yourself in believing something you can't ever really be how can you ever find happiness in life... Just stop for a second and be yourself its much less complicated and people will love you for who you are not the image your chasing...

I know dozens of women who have had complete hysterectomies/oophorectomies. Are they no longer women because their ovaries have been removed?

Who are you to tell someone else that they cannot ever find happiness? Who has granted you that kind of moral authority? I hope you aren't a parent.

edit on 5-4-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Its about DNA and about what nature made you... You can't act into what you biologically aren't to start with and expect people to accept you into what you aren't really... Then be mad at them and label them "close minded"

I'm realistic thats all...

reply to post by _R4t_


So if someone is born with a genetic abnormality or extra limb they should live with it? Hormones also play into development as well. Some People have hormonal abnormalities and are not pretending to be a girl or a guy according to their hormones making them feel a nother way. Youre not ever going to change your mind obviously.No matter the proof placed in your path. Get over yourself. Everyone on this planet is not perfect.

reply to post by _R4t_


I am still curious as to who gave you the moral authority to dictate happiness. Why are you able to dole out who can and cannot expect to be happy based on your arbitrary definitions?

Originally posted by _R4t_
Ovaries...

My point is if you live in direct contradiction of what/who you really are and yet still try to lie to yourself in believing something you can't ever really be how can you ever find happiness in life... Just stop for a second and be yourself its much less complicated and people will love you for who you are not the image your chasing...

I've known many women without ovaries... are you saying that they aren't real?

It's hard to find happiness when ones self identity is not in congruence with their physical reality. Transition is simply a way for those afflicted to bring things back into sync.

dbl