Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

reply to post by Stormdancer777


The percentage is faily low when considering the overall percentage of how many sexual reasignment surgeries are performed in the United States and in the rest of the world, especially considering the amount of psychological evaluation and so on one has to go through to even consider sexual reasignment. Part of the process is to root out those who may wrongly be going for sexual reasignment. For the most part it is fairly efficient, but some people do slip through who should not be getting this kind of surgery. With all kinds of surgery, especially ones that are irreversable, a person needs to take it seriously and only get it for the right reasons.
I can't just simply waltz in there and say gimmie gimmie. Heehee, it's not a walk in the park. And I admit, I have never in my life time met a person who has gone through the full transition and regreted it.

As adults, we should be willing to accept the responsibility of our actions, if we make a decision we regret for whatever reason, we must accept those consequiences. We must make these decisions intelligently and not ignorantly. Such is Freedom, it's not for the faint of heart. There will be no nanny nor should there be.

My reply honestly, if you dont want to get hurt or to take stick then simply keep your mouth shut,loose lips sink battleships, no one else needs to know, now everyone knows who he is its not gonna be pretty.

Everyone has an agenda or a vested interest.

reply to post by Arles Morningside


I understand that they do go through a lot of psychological testing, never have personally known anyone that has transitioned, so I don't have a personal opinion on that.

Plain and simply, You wouldn't let someone enter a fishman into a swimming race with humans, even if he decided one day that he didn't like being a man, he wanted to be a fish, of what he felt he related more with. So he goes and has this surgery to look and act like a fish, but wants to enter a high up swim race, well should he?

And what's the difference between this and a Man, changing themsevles into a Women, then entering a competition for the way they look as a women.....

It seems completely unfair to the other real girls, that:
A, were born as they are
B, didn't change the way they looked
C, Don't have the money to, if they wanted too..

Sounds to me, this is just saying " Hey, you have lots of money, it's ok for you to win then "

It's all fine to change who you are if you do not like it, that's who you are, and I have no say in that. But I think we all have a say in the fact that it's a form of cheating to add anything more than who you are to yourself in order to win something that others may not of had the ability or resources to do thereof. regardless of wanting to do it, you see, the options were not balanced and this person had an unfair edge,

I don't know how much was plastic surgery and how much was natural...

I hope she wins.

For all of you self-righteous, I hope it BUUURNS!

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Don't think it works that way FF. My parent had males and females and I'm pretty sure DNA doesn't discriminate on the lines of "sex". Or there would be only one sex to come out of a union of parents.

Oh man ... my bad .... I word tripped .... I ment to say something like this ... When police do a crime scene investigation they can deterine if someone is male or female by body chemistry. That's what I ment to say ... The chemical makeup is either male or female .... X or Y ....

It should not matter because it is a beauty contest. Many of the women who enter have had surgery to look the way they do. Jenna is probably not the first transgendered person in one of these contests, if she had not entered in transgendered beauty contest they may have never found out. I've heard on the rumor mill that there have been some high profile models that were born male they keep it a secret because it would ruin their career.

If the beauty contest had a rule that barred any kind of cosmetic surgery then I could understanding Jenna being disqualified, however there is no such rule for the Miss Universe pageant.

Wow!
My intention was to read through this entire thread...I only made it to page two.

I have only one question:

If beauty pageants are judgement of external beauty, why does it matter what is on the inside?

Maybe the rules of these pageants should be changed to reflect what is really being judged: external beauty.

Does being a child abuser, drug addict, aalcoholic, or a genetic male make their physical appearance any less pleasing?

Or better yet let us learn not to judge people at all, and treat others (judge) as you would be treated (judged) yourself (I recall reading that somewhere...).

Click on the links and see these "beauties" for yourself.

Miss Universe, MISS, Not Mister.

If i modify my legs with added support and extra ligaments to run faster, should i be allowed into a national racing competition?


If This was, Who is Hot Pagent, then sure why not..?

So a lot of woman who compete in this pageants weren't born with their natural breasts,or nose,or lips etc.So like Talackova they are not natural either.The only difference is that they have ovaries,big deal

Originally posted by adnachiel21
So a lot of woman who compete in this pageants weren't born with their natural breasts,or nose,or lips etc.So like Talackova they are not natural either.The only difference is that they have ovaries,big deal

Well you can't generalize all of them having gone thru plastic surgery and enhancements, some might have, but a Transgender 100% went thru enhancements, and don;t naturally belong in the competition.

What if this SheMan joined a girls basketball team? advantage?

reply to post by luciddream


Honestly I really don't care about this issue,it's irrelevant.I'm just pointing at the amount of plastic surgery in the pageants,because I hate it.But to each their own.You know the world is on a downward spiral when they let a person born as a man take competition in a contest for women on basis of political correctness.

I still cant quite believe she's transgender.. usually theres a little giveaway (no, not that ) of some sort which makes them look a little masculine, but theres nothing!

Either way, if people who are transgender are allowed to conduct every other aspect of their lives as whatever sex they are, why not in a beauty competition? Or are you only allowed to be moderately successful if you've had a sex change?

Although, saying that, it seems odd that people are paying so much attention to what sort of statement the miss universe competition may be putting out by including/excluding her from the competition, because they have all sorts of strange rules anyway...

Example:

contestants may not be married or pregnant. They must not have ever been married, not had a marriage annulled nor given birth to, or parented, a child. The titleholders are also required to remain single throughout their reign.

Now wheres all the human rights groups, sticking up for the 28 years & over, married mothers out there?

Originally posted by MiloNickels

No, it's not a tricky issue at all. Gender is not determined by how you look, by what you believe, or even by the current state of your sex organs. If a person has two x chromosomes they are a female. If they have an x chromosome and a y chromosome they are a male. Period.

PS - F#&@ you.

I find it disturbing how so many people maintain that all males are XY and all females are XX. It's a generally accurate statement, but it's not absolute and doesn't apply in many cases. Too many people feel obligated to categorize everything as black or white, but the reality is that a large number of people actually fall into the gray area between the two. The vast majority of people with chromosomal anomalies don't even know it.

If sex is to be based solely on chromosomes, and issues like marriage equality are going to be based on sex, then theoretically all people should be required to submit to karotyping to conclusively determine their sex. We really don't want to go there with our modern society. The results wold be disastrous.

Originally posted by ~Vixen~

Originally posted by MiloNickels

No, it's not a tricky issue at all. Gender is not determined by how you look, by what you believe, or even by the current state of your sex organs. If a person has two x chromosomes they are a female. If they have an x chromosome and a y chromosome they are a male. Period.

PS - F#&@ you.

I find it disturbing how so many people maintain that all males are XY and all females are XX. It's a generally accurate statement, but it's not absolute and doesn't apply in many cases. Too many people feel obligated to categorize everything as black or white, but the reality is that a large number of people actually fall into the gray area between the two. The vast majority of people with chromosomal anomalies don't even know it.

If sex is to be based solely on chromosomes, and issues like marriage equality are going to be based on sex, then theoretically all people should be required to submit to karotyping to conclusively determine their sex. We really don't want to go there with our modern society. The results wold be disastrous.

edit on 4/4/2012 by ~Vixen~ because: (no reason given)

But marriage IS based on sex, hence all the same sex marriage problems we have.
Honestly, on a strictly natural/genetic level, I cant believe people are arguing the XX vs. XY thing. Your born male or female(as yes I know there are exceptions).

Originally posted by coop039

Honestly, on a strictly natural/genetic level, I cant believe people are arguing the XX vs. XY thing. Your born male or female(as yes I know there are exceptions).

Bolding mine to indicate your own contradiction.

This is a good start for your own research.

en.wikipedia.org...

Come at it with the open mind of a biologist, and not the biased mind of a socially engineered person with artificially constructed gender.

14 pages and I still can't believe this ever became an issue. I mean, is the most beautiful woman in Canada really a man? If so, then by all means HE should win! If this is a beauty pageant, and the whole country can't come up with a more beautiful being than a transgendered man, then there are bigger problems than whether or not it breaks the rules. Come on Canada, surely you can do better than this?

reply to post by getreadyalready


What a silly and very American thing to say.

We have problems all right but how my sisters from Canada look isn't one of them.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by coop039

Honestly, on a strictly natural/genetic level, I cant believe people are arguing the XX vs. XY thing. Your born male or female(as yes I know there are exceptions).

Bolding mine to indicate your own contradiction.

This is a good start for your own research.

en.wikipedia.org...

Come at it with the open mind of a biologist, and not the biased mind of a socially engineered person with artificially constructed gender.

Linking me to a wiki page about an issue that, and I quote from the wiki page, " was initially adopted by intersex activists who criticize traditional medical approaches" , does not help your argument.

Also, my gender is not "artificially constructed", nor are my penis and testicles.

Originally posted by SusyQ30
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

What a silly and very American thing to say.

We have problems all right but how my sisters from Canada look isn't one of them.

edit on 4-4-2012 by SusyQ30 because: (no reason given)

Why is it silly? Or American?

I can't imagine the framers of the rules for beauty pageants ever imagined this would be a significant problem that needed to be addressed, and therefore we have a controversy.

Personally, I don't think any surgical alteration should be allowed in a beauty pageant, and a gender reassignment is the pinnacle of surgical alteration, so they should be disqualified on that alone, but.....

On a more sporting level, if they are going to allow other surgical alterations such as nose jobs and breast enhancements, then they should also allow this surgery, and then the cards should fall where they may. If, in fact, the most beautiful Canadian woman is in deed a man, then he should be allowed to compete!

I'm not necessarily criticizing Canadian women, I have seen very pretty ones! I am criticizing the fact that this person is winning. Surely Canada has better to offer? This would be a non-issue if the guy had won a couple of bar bets and amateur competitions and then dropped out of sight, but he has no business on the International stage representing and entire country. There are surely better choices out there to represent the country. If not, then I suppose anything I could say would be ugly. If this is really the best of the best, then just .