Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
I have a lotta love and respect for the hardships that "Gender Confused" people go through. It's not an easy deal and most I've know in life are really screwed up as a result. It's such a misunderstood thing.

That being said, "she" is NOT nor will ever be a woman. Being a woman consists of chemicals and brain patterns and biology you can NEVER replicate by surgery or science and I doubt it will EVER be accomplished.

Not a female, gotta go. sorry.

For that to be true, one would have to assume that all women are exactly the same, and that just isn't true. It's NOT that simple. Not all of our brains are the same. We think differently. My body chemistry is different from my mom, my sister, and every other woman on the planet, but in the end we're all still women. Variety is what makes us unique, and that should be celebrated rather than used as a dividing factor.

Originally posted by FearEater
I vote no. I will not read the thread. My answer is final.

Miss Universe is for the female gender only. This MAN may think and look like a female, but HE is NOT naturally.

Period.

eta; I'm Canadian, we (or myself, anyways) have limits, and this is pushing it...

edit on 4-4-2012 by FearEater because: (no reason given)

Thank you for putting it straight, simple and right to the point. People are into changing everything, everywhere to be whatever each person wants. Well..whatever.....but I'm with you. Leave some things alone. Boy Scouts are for BOYS... Girl Scouts are for GIRLS and *MISS* anything should be MISS....*NOT* a Ms who used to be a Mr. Not everything in life should be defined in the eye of the beholder.


*After reading more than the first and last page beyond the OP, I think it's important to note I agree with the msg this reply is written to. Not necessarily the rest of the give and take on either side of it.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I strongly stand by my first post, which you've quote, also thankful of support. My second post is pure honesty, as sick as it is written. I didn't like those days and wanted out, if you know what I mean.

Has our society degraded itself so badly, that we should accept "A" sex born, turned "B" sex through plastic surgury (

The comments on this thread is bordering on Discrimination and Bigotry in itself. If you have never been put in a situation, where you feel you were not born the right sex. The who is anyone to dictate to others how they live their life's.

Once again Values are slapped on the minority by a religion which obtains its doctrines from books written by men for their own perverted beliefs. It is sickening, to say the least.

Originally posted by alfa1

I'd go much furtrher and say that anyone who has ever had any medical intervention, either surgery or hormonal treatment to make them more feminine / attractive / beautiful could never be allowed to enter such a competition.
Basically, its cheating.

That would most likely eliminate all of the contestants lol They all have had surgery with either breast implants, butt implants or lip implants and countless plastic surgies.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by carabao
If the rules of miss universe states she has to be born a woman then she can not enter, if the rules does not say so, then she can enter. Simple as that.

But, from what I read from your post that isn't the real problem you have with the LGBT comunity is it?

Cheap shot. Anyone tries to say that the gay movement cannot immediately have ANYTHING it wants, and they are immediately labelled a bigot.

It is fundamentally dishonest.

Why do you say 'Gay movement'? I saw nothing listed about the contestant where her sexuality was mentioned. You'll notice I used the word 'her'. If she is legally recognised as female, then you can kick up all the fuss you wish, but it's irrelevant - it's the point of law, and in this case the competitions own rules that count.
Don't like it? Well, I don't think anyone actually asked you to. Personally I don't like any competition based on looks, but that's my opinion so I don't watch them - it's not difficult is it?

reply to post by Darkinin


There is not mental illness involved in legit. cases of a Transperson. A Transperson understands fully what their biological sex is and is under no delusions. When a Transperson marks that milestone in their life of honest to themselves and the world, their nature as a transperson is not based on a stray whim or perverse urge. It is based on a life long realization that though they may be one sex biological, they feel quite the opisite. It is undeniable. They cannot be 'cured' of this, because they are not disturbed. It is a clear fact of their nature which is not fully understood in science, yet is starting to be recognized as the real deal and not a mental illness.
I think what makes it difficult to understand is that it is a condition you can't see so well. When a person loses an arm, you can see that. But with a transperson, we're dealing with something more hidden and not so visible on the surface. For example, many sicknesses were at one time thought to be caused by evil spirits. People could not at the time see the root cause.

reply to post by Partygirl


I agree with you in everything you say.... there is an Agenda being pushed down our throats everyday....

Trying to say that being Transvestite, Transexual or Gay is the norm.....

Well, it isnt..... Men & Women were born different for a reason!!

Originally posted by jeantherapy
Also, I never endorsed any psychologist or psychiatrist. I want people to solve their problems by the power of their own mind and goodwill, not through drugs or surgery. You really misunderstand my message. I dream of a world where people don't feel compelled to mutilate their bodies whether it be a 14 year old girl that cuts up her forearms or an adult that 'knows they are the other gender.' People believe all sorts of crazy things, I suspect you do as well.

OK so you should be all for ending male genital mutilation (circumcision), right?

Because MGM is a lot bigger issue than a sex change. A person having a sex change is an adult. MGM is a helpless baby boy that has no say in the matter.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

uh-huh. im so sorry, you cant go out and rape/beat/murder somebody for being different anymore.

i dont consider wanting to be free of hate and physical/emotional trauma to be some sort of agenda...

however, i do consider denouncing everything and everybody who doesnt agree with you so that your world view wont be challenged, an agenda.

as soon as you start putting limitations on what another being can do with themselves and consentually with others, you are placing them on yourself.

consider this analogy... we are all lined up at the same gallows we call earth, and every time the noose is tightened on one person, it is tightened on everybody else. so if you want to hang somebody you disagree with, you are going to go down too. if instead you decide to free that person, so shall you be.

believe whatever you want, but when you decide to start forcing another person to live life a certain way... you give up on your own freedom if it ends up outside of your little box.

somebody is inevitably going to say "well what if a person wants to murder somebody? we should just let them?" no. that would be along the same lines as forcing somebody to do or be something they dont wish to be.

Originally posted by jeantherapy

Originally posted by research100
"we are all born with the body we are meant to have" really??? I think merrick (the elephant man) would disagree with you.


here is something that Chastity Bono said. ever since when she was a small child she went to bed every night praying that she would wake up as a boy, and every morning she woke up crushed because she was still a girl.

does this sound like a choice??. gay straight, bi, trans we are all people, so much hate, someone called them "it" , that is cruel. we are what we are, at some point we realized who we are attracted to, it's not something we picked.

edit on 3-4-2012 by research100 because: correct spelling and put space between 2 words

I go to bed hoping that when I wake up I will have a bigger penis, but I don't in the morning each day. Does this mean I should risk a dangerous surgery to my sensitive parts to fulfill a silly vanity? It wouldn't improve my health in the least. There is a difference between unnecessary cosmetic surgery and emergency response to trauma.

Excuse me, but who are you to say who can and cannot have certain types of surgery? How is this any of your business?
Is this effecting you at all?
Does it keep you up at night knowing that somewhere in the world somebody is have reconstructive surgery?
Are all those images of penises and vaginas scaring you?

Honestly, give us one justifiable, rational answer on why they should not be able to have these surgeries, that does not have YOU as the focal point, because none of this effects YOU in the slightest.

I see that word 'natural' being thrown about alot. As if most of us are 'natural' in the first place. Ahaahaa.

But onwards to the matter of Transitioning. TransPeople who opt to Transisition arn't doing so out of a childish cry of "boohoo, I don't like the way I look". It is more complicated than that. Yes, there is a healthy approach and an unhealthy approach, where do we not see such in all things in life? In regards to a more unhealthy approach, don't you wonder why? You must remember that for many TransPeople, they do not have the luxery of a embracing, loving and guiding foundation of which should be the entitalment of all people. Wholesome guidence and support is so important to everyone in walking in Beauty on the Path, including TransPeople. It makes the difference, even if people can make it without such.

For many TransPeople, they do not opt to have the full Transition and some even choose not to take hormonal therapy for various personal reasons (and not because of cold feet) but for those who do opt for these, it can be life saving and can mean the difference between inner torment and peace. Peace, because there can be some kind of alignment with the inside and out and the process of Transitioning can offer this in a meaningful way and healing way which in the days of old were not necessarily open to us except by crude and dangerous means. Much like amputation was at the time. If you have studied the Civil War, for example, you will be familiar with how amputations were once done and how they have now progressed as have prosthetics to help people with missing limbs. We all know as TransPeople that the Transition dosn't make us less or more of a man or woman. We have our own reasons for going for the full Transition or not.

You know, in some cultures, gender is seen in a more fluid light rather than in two extreames. Some peoples have multiple genders.

Those of you who have not experience real descrimination live a very fortunate life. It is a sickening feeling to experience it and see it. It's a form of caste system. A form of control. A form of ignorance.

Originally posted by yuppa

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Noncents

 

I have always said I am a lesbian in a mans body. I find men disgusting. Hell even if i went and became mostly female id would still only go after women.

So.....Youre heterosexual? Straight? Honestly, that is a ridiculous statement.

edit on 4-4-2012 by coop039 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Partygirl
People have a right to be respected for who they are, true.
They don't have a right to be celebrated for who they aren't, however.

"she" is who "she" feels "she" is. thus, "she" has all right to be celebrated for who "she" feels "she" is. it's not up to the rest of the public or anyone else to decide what gender an individual has to adopt. it is the basic, fundamental right of every individual to live the way they feel. gay/lesbian rights should be seen as human rights and not handled separately.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by denynothing

 

I also wonder about some of the people here.. Do you all seriously meet someone new, and then think about their genitals? I mean, if you meet a woman. Do you really sit there and think about her vagina and that makes you think of her as a woman? And for the sake of the scenario, there is no sexual interest.

The answer to that question would very immensely based on where and who you asked it to. Ask that question to an all male college aged group and you will be very dissapointed in the answer.
Your answer will be different among staight males and gay males as well.

reply to post by Partygirl


No, it's not a tricky issue at all. Gender is not determined by how you look, by what you believe, or even by the current state of your sex organs. If a person has two x chromosomes they are a female. If they have an x chromosome and a y chromosome they are a male. Period.

I am getting sick and tired of this Orwellian push to redefine reality according to political correctness. Retards like you would fit right in at the ministry of truth. It's time to take back our common sense, start calling a spade a spade, and stop fearing the labels of nonconformity. If my son ties a towel around his neck and truly believes he was born a super hero--should I subscribe to this false reality when he tries to fly off my roof? of course not!!! I'm sick of it!!!!

Here's a blast of reality for you: men can not turn into women, women can't turn into men, animals are not people, there are differences between the many races and cultures on this planet, a digital image of a birth certificate is not proof of ANYTHING, man made global warming and religion are frauds of the same type, and the earth is not a living organism.

Dressing like a woman (no matter how badly you believe you were meant to be a woman) does not make it so any more than wearing a fur coat magically transforms you into an ape. Furthermore... surgically removing your penis doesn't make you a woman, it just makes you a dude without a penis.

And you can go ahead and label me any way you see fit. You can not use name calling to bully me into accepting a false reality. Go ahead, call me a racist, a homophobe, a sexist, a bigot, a birther, a climate-change-denier, a conspiracy theorist, or any other label that you people immediately use to vilify anybody who disagrees with your false reality. Your labels have ceased to impact me at all... Let's face it: if you HONESTLY believe that men can magically transform into women, how accurate can your labels be??? LOL

PS - F#&@ you.

I think they should let the ladies have their contest, I hope I can make this statement.

youtu.be...

Originally posted by coop039

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
If no one knew she had been a he would this be an issue? Probably not. I don't understand why someone would go through something like this but I won't judge them. Except on their beauty in a pagent.

If you met a "woman" in a bar or at a club, went out a few times, and one night were getting ready to sleep together, and found out she used to be a he, would it matter then? Answer honestly, not politically correct.

I get the whole inner beauty thing, but beauty pagents arent based on inner beauty. And a man that looks good as a woman, is still a man, and its the MISS Universe pagent.

edit on 3-4-2012 by coop039 because: (no reason given)

No one brave enough to answer honestly? Dont answer how you want ATS'ers think of of you.
I will answer, yes, it would matter to me. It changes the whole perspective of that individual. And Im not homophobic, one of my best friends in the world is gay. Im being honest. No matter how hard I would try, it would always be a man.

reply to post by Arles Morningside

But onwards to the matter of Transitioning. TransPeople who opt to Transisition arn't doing so out of a childish cry of "boohoo, I don't like the way I look".

Your statement made me wonder what percentage regret the transition, since you never hear about that>

www.sexchangeregret.com...

De-transitioning is a common result of regret. From male to female and back again is common. Here are some more of the letters I've received, shared with permission, and some of the research I've found.

A Physician

"I was forever horribly maimed. I woke up screaming..."
► Read more

From Male to Female and Back Again

"Maybe my life can serve as a warning to other transsexuals—don’t end up like Claudia"
► Read more

Transgender process in the UK versus US

"I often imagine myself as woman and love wearing the clothes and making up - BUT the moment I look at real women reality hits."
► Read more

3 Weeks Post-op

"Although I thought I was completely sure of what I was doing, I began to regret the decision a mere three weeks after the operation."
► Read more

Alan Went Back

At 21 Australian Alan Finch underwent surgery and became Helen.
► Read more

It's Only a Gender Fetish

"I am a cross-dresser, recently divorced, and I thought this was my opportunity..."
► Read more

2003 Swedish Study Findings

"...suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism."
► Read more

Suicide Studies

"A staggering 41 percent of transgender people in the United States have attempted to commit suicide, according to a new survey."
► Read more...

A staggering 41 percent of transgender people in the United States have attempted to commit suicide, according to a new survey.
www.sexchangeregret.com...

www.sexchangeregret.com...