"If y'all come to get me, bring body bags!"

Originally posted by Flavian

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
Good for him. He's free on his land. I doubt he "never leaves" as some of the first responses suggest.
I saw that same magazine yesterday and I'm glad to see this thread here today! Thanks!

Good for him?

He shot and killed a Police Officer. Personally i hope he gets septicemia from a rusty nail and the authorities won't send him medical help. That, frankly, would be just desserts.

Aren't we a good little collaborator?

It never ceases to amaze me; the extremes of domestication that I witness on this forum, at times.

reply to post by petrus4


What a stupid comment.

If he had shot someone, would you be advocating a medal for him?

If you look at the Trayvon/Zimmerman case, you'll see that there are those that want Zimmerman tried without the facts being firmly known.

Quite a few facts are firmly known and their is enough evidence to put him on trial..

reply to post by Oaktree


You, my friend, are absolutely correct! When I read through the article, I think my mind equated this part here with the original story:

In the wake of his son's murder, Paudert, the former West Memphis police chief, is now assisting the Justice Department in a national campaign to prepare law enforcement officials for potential violent encounters with sovereign followers

Apologies!

reply to post by SumerianSoldier


I can confirm that the "Sovereign Citizen" and "Free man on the Land" movements are both extremely popular and concerning topics among law enforcement. I sit in a lot of meetings with representatives from multiple agencies and departments, and this topic always comes up, and it always brings scoffing, and frustration, and a little laughter, and a lot of confusion. The movement has some legitimacy, and the legal loopholes they expertly navigate are confounding to the court systems. In some ways, they are exploiting holes in the system, and in other ways they are simply burying the government bureaucracy in their own paperwork and forcing governments that are short-staffed due to budget concerns to ignore their movements and focus on easier issues.

I can totally see how this guy could outlast 4 administrations. The WBC people (for example) are experts at manipulating the legal system. An army of Freemen on the land, with the Sovereign Citizen legal spiderweb of loopholes, and some attorneys threatening retribution and lawsuits if the state or feds mess up, and then the physical threat of harm if someone tries to violate their rights all makes for a very good deterrent!

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by petrus4

 

What a stupid comment.

If he had shot someone, would you be advocating a medal for him?

If the police shot him, would you be advocating a medal for them?

reply to post by petrus4


No, not at all. The Police however have a job to do, whether you like it or not. I initially thought the guy had shot at the Police for a routine stop. That would be a totally ridiculous over reaction on the guys part and one he would deserve punishing for. Actually though, it appears he tried to bite the officers finger - while stupid i also see the funny side of that. Pursuing him after such a long period of time for such a minor thing would, to me, be a total waste of time. Seems the Police are doing the right thing.

Do you approve of Police been shot at? Asking as i'm actually unsure based on your previous responses. That was the impression i was getting from you, that shooting at the Police is ok.

Why fool with him ?Hes locked up and the only real difference is he isn't being raped daily by black moslems like the other White people on prisons....he's still a prisoner...of you. Let him die on the vine it's no big deal..bust him and he becomes a martyr

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by petrus4

 

Do you approve of Police been shot at? Asking as i'm actually unsure based on your previous responses. That was the impression i was getting from you, that shooting at the Police is ok.

No. For a few different reasons. The first and most fundamental reason is moral.

One of the elements of my (and again, your mileage may vary, in terms of whoever else you ask) definition of individual sovereignty, is that the entire reason why a person no longer needs external law enforcement, is because they already have an internal moral code, such that external enforcement simply becomes redundant and unnecessary. It's a developmental thing.

Murder falls under the definition of one of the two recognised crimes. (Harm and material loss, basically) So an individual who commits such a crime, is demonstrating in my mind, on a purely pragmatic level, that they do not have the requisite maturity to be able to positively self-manage. They thus automatically revert back to being under state jurisdiction, purely by virtue of the state's need to defend itself. In that sense, it's a completely natural process.

The second reason is strategic. Nobody wins fights against the police; at least not long term. That's the definition of the phrase, "monopoly on violence."

Even if you do in an immediate sense, what it will then generally result in is escalation, with the police simply either calling for more help, or SWAT, or whatever else. So even morality aside, it is still insane. You will not obtain any positive or desirable outcome from doing it. Assuming hypothetically (which is very unlikely, in the current climate) that the police do not simply murder you as part of the immediate scenario, you are going to be looking at life in jail.

This does raise the thorny issue of how to deal with the potential need for legitimate self defense where the police are concerned; but generally speaking, my attitude with the police specifically, will be one of immediate accomodation. There are ways of talking yourself out of speeding tickets and so on; but those are employed with a judge, not a cop.

If a cop gives you a ticket, or charges you in whatever manner he likes, you take it. Given that police are generally enforcers of statutes, he doesn't know enough about the law, generally speaking, for you to be able to talk to him about it, and in the case of most American police I've seen, he will most likely simply revert to violence, very quickly, if he detects an unwillingness on your part to co-operate.

The main problem with police, is that unless you have a contractual agreement with the state of a specific nature, they do not actually have the legal ability to enforce the laws with you, that they think they can; but they don't know that, and they are specifically trained not to know it. The entire concept of enforcement before the acceptance of a contract is legally bogus to begin with. You can only be bound by something if you agree to it voluntarily.

However, the time to contest a charge or whatever else, is ideally via mail before you actually have to go to court, but failing that, with a judge in the courtroom.

Cops get to do what they like, because generally speaking they will anyway. I view part of self-management, as being able to identify which battles you can win, and which you can't; and not seeing the ones you can't win as being the equivalent of victimisation, but simply being scenarios that you have to route around, or find alternative solutions for.

Contemporary police have the attitude that they are simply to be obeyed, or else. They often don't care about due process, and that assumes that they even know much about it anyway. My attitude when dealing with them, is to focus on minimising the potential harm they may do to me, and getting away from them as rapidly as possible. They are the most dangerous element of the legal system, because they are the element with which you have the fewest options.

Yet they frame other people who are largely innocent and "accidentally" assassinate their wives and newborn babies.

(ruby ridge)

Originally posted by RSF77
Yet they frame other people who are largely innocent and "accidentally" assassinate their wives and newborn babies.

(ruby ridge)

It makes me want to cry when people believe in government false flags.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by RSF77
Yet they frame other people who are largely innocent and "accidentally" assassinate their wives and newborn babies.

(ruby ridge)

It makes me want to cry when people believe in government false flags.

It makes me want to cry when I think about all the blatant murders the government has already admitted to, and how many are ongoing at this very moment. Outrageous Admitted Govt Atrocities.

Whether they are false-flags, human experimentation, or just bold coverups of government projects makes no difference. The government regularly murders its own citizens by the singles, sometimes by the few, and sometimes by the dozens or hundreds! They don't bother even hiding the fact. We had a case in Florida just about 2 years ago where a guy was harassed, threatened, imprisoned, driven out of business, shot at, and all of that was because he accidentally witnessed government officials allowing pollution in a swamp, and then he recorded a conversation getting a government official to admit to it. The accidental witness, and the subsequent recording almost got him killed.

Cry if you want, but cry for the right reasons. You are a disposable pawn in the eyes of the government, and there are 300 million more just like you, so you don't matter one iota to them. If they had to wipe out your whole town to keep the lid on some dirty deeds, they would do it in a heartbeat and spin it so they looked like heroes.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by RSF77
Yet they frame other people who are largely innocent and "accidentally" assassinate their wives and newborn babies.

(ruby ridge)

It makes me want to cry when people believe in government false flags.

It makes me want to cry when I think about all the blatant murders the government has already admitted to, and how many are ongoing at this very moment. Outrageous Admitted Govt Atrocities.

Maybe I should have rephrased that.

What I meant was; it upsets me when people observe government false flags happening, and then believe in whatever BS explanation for them that the government provides. As in, government kills people at Waco as one example, and then still goes on with crap about how Koresh was a dangerous child molesting cult leader, etc etc.

In terms of this specific example, I have no doubt that Koresh was a child molesting cult leader. He really wasn't a very nice man. The government weren't lying about that. What they did try to do, however, was divert people's attention to the fact that he was a scumbag, in order to try and hide the fact that they used the totally disproportionate measure of tank mounted flamethrowers in order to get rid not only of him, but burn the entire commune full of people as well. It was beyond monstrous.

Originally posted by CB328

Its pretty crazy to allow a bunch of inbred hillbillys to murder cops and raise ther youngins on a makeshift military compound

He sucks, someone should have shot him by now.

Big talk. I am pretty sure the police would pay you to go out there and kill them all......wanna try? Didn't think so.
This is not the only group of Sovereign Citizen living in the US, I know of one out in Montana, a group of 'Nam Vets, waiting for war to come to America. I would say it if came down to it, the government would have it's hands full really fast.

Originally posted by autowrench
I know of one out in Montana, a group of 'Nam Vets, waiting for war to come to America. I would say it if came down to it, the government would have it's hands full really fast.

I never hear of anyone like that though, who isn't a Vietnam vet. I don't know if any of their kids are into it, but I don't think I've ever read about anyone being in the militia movement who was under 50 years old. That does not bode well, when you think about it. They seem to be the last generation who cared.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by CB328

Its pretty crazy to allow a bunch of inbred hillbillys to murder cops and raise ther youngins on a makeshift military compound

He sucks, someone should have shot him by now.

Big talk. I am pretty sure the police would pay you to go out there and kill them all......wanna try? Didn't think so.
This is not the only group of Sovereign Citizen living in the US, I know of one out in Montana, a group of 'Nam Vets, waiting for war to come to America. I would say it if came down to it, the government would have it's hands full really fast.

They are all over. Just my little slice of Northern Florida has DOZENS!

This Map shows all of the ones designated as "hate groups" because they are racist or radically religious, but there are probably three times this many that exist that are not on the map! I've seen maps law enforcement has where the dots are literally everywhere. 2 or 3 in every town, and hundreds in the larger towns.

And they are all on maps.All nicely marked and ready for pickup.You think some little dinky militia camp can stand a drone strike,Or an AC-130 pass,or maybe a couPle of M1A Abrahms on the driveway ?
No being on those maps is their death knell

Drones are operated by computers. They are also prone to ground fire. Need I say anything more?

He is "locked up" on 50 acres of land! Does anyone have any idea how big that is? I guarantee he has been off the "compound" on several occasions. People seem to think he is in his own little prison. Nothing can be further from the truth!

If they really wanted him, all they would have to do is escalate it to the state level. Because they haven't I tend to think they have a very poor case against the guy. The truth is there somewhere but it sure isn't in newsprint. It never really is, is it?

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by autowrench
I know of one out in Montana, a group of 'Nam Vets, waiting for war to come to America. I would say it if came down to it, the government would have it's hands full really fast.

I never hear of anyone like that though, who isn't a Vietnam vet. I don't know if any of their kids are into it, but I don't think I've ever read about anyone being in the militia movement who was under 50 years old. That does not bode well, when you think about it. They seem to be the last generation who cared.

edit on 3-4-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

You are absolutely right, petrus4. I am in my 40's and I talk to kids just 15 years younger than myself and a vast majority of them seem to believe that the government has nothing but our best interest in mind. They think people make too big a deal over things like ACTA, NDAA,The Patriot Act, etc... When I try to explain how they can build on the loose verbage of these works, they laugh at me. Well, feel free to call me a conspiracy theorist I guess, because i sure don't believe they plan anything good with stuff like this.