"If y'all come to get me, bring body bags!"

So last night I popped over to the convenience store to purchase my mega millions tickets in the hope of becoming a millionaire and making the whole prepping thing a ton easier Anyway, while standing in line, The headline in USA TODAY caught my attention. "If y'all come to get me, bring body bags!" I perused it for a second with the full intention of looking it up online last night when I got home. Forgot all about it. So today at work the conversation turned to the "Sovereign Citizen" movement, if movement is the correct term. Anyway, I came home and searched the story out on the net. I ran it through the search engine here on ATS with quite a few diffeent keywords and was surprised when it didn't come up. So, here it is with the apology if my search skills are lacking.

Source

What the story is about is the man, Joe Gray, who shot and killed a Texas State Trooper 12 years ago.

Gary Thomas will never forget the letter he received in early 2000. It was from John Joe Gray, a suspect in a felony assault case, offering a not-so-subtle warning to the area's chief criminal investigator: He had no intention of answering charges that he had attacked a state trooper. "What he said was this: 'If y'all come to get me, bring body bags,'" said Thomas, now a local justice of the peace.

Thomas remembers the message clearly, not because of its unvarnished threat, but because -- after 12 years -- Gray, who doesn't acknowledge the authority of any government, continues to dare police to come and get him.

Sequestered on a 50-acre, wooded compound in East Texas since jumping bail more than a decade ago, Gray and his clan have effectively outlasted the administrations of four local sheriffs, all of whom have decided that John Joe's arrest is not worth the risk of a violent confrontation.

It is a bit of a read, but quite interesting that this man has, in my opinion, stared down the local law enforcement. Mainly because of the statement made in the story by the current Sherriff.

The sheriff is not comfortable discussing much more, except to emphasize the strong belief that his department would not have the "firepower" to sustain a prolonged siege to forcibly remove Gray.

"Some of our officers would be killed, mostly likely," he said.

It was interesting to note the FBI's observation

In the past three years, there has been growing concern over activities of so-called "sovereign citizens," who like the Grays and many of their anti-government predecessors "claim to exist beyond the realm of government authority," according to a January FBI bulletin to state and local law enforcement officials warning of the potential for violence.

As well as the law center's figures.

Although the FBI does not track sovereigns by number, the bureau does not dispute the law center's estimates, which have swelled dramatically within a national anti-government network of related "patriot" and "militia'' groups. Since 2008, the number of groups surged from 149 to 1,274 in 2011, the law center reported this month.

Anyway, it would appear that civil unrest is growing more and more in the U.S., as evidenced by the profferred numbers in the story above. Though I do not agree with the killing of law enforcement, I do believe that "SC's" are correct in their stance that taxation is unconstituttional, and therefore, unlawful. I don't condone people filing frivolous lawsuits because they got their panties in a bunch. I do believe that, at some point, American's are going to have to turn off the television, stand together, and get bloody to restore our country to its former glory. IF it could be done in a peaceful manner, that would be better, but I highly doubt that will be possible. What are your thoughts on this article ATS?

There is no reason for a Janet Reno. Absolutely none.

Just wait him out.

Sooner or later if you have a man watching, he will show, and he gets taken in for trial. They all make mistakes and this idiot isnt any genius. He will too.

reply to post by Shadowalker


This guy has managed to survive off grid for 12 years with his family. In the article he, or someone that looks like him, states they can continue on for quite some time. 12 years show a lot of dedication to me! Lol!

reply to post by SumerianSoldier


Its gotta suck living that life and claiming to be free when you know if you really tried to be free you would end up in a cage.

I applaud those sheriffs for restraint. They are smart enough to know no matter what he says he has been under house arrest for over a decade. He just doesnt know it.

reply to post by Shadowalker


Quite right! I never thought to look at it that way!

Send in zimmerman.... He will get the job done, or kill anyone who says otherwise.

Its pretty crazy to allow a bunch of inbred hillbillys to murder cops and raise ther youngins on a makeshift military compound. Atleast their mud farm is aproaching profitability.

Good for him. He's free on his land. I doubt he "never leaves" as some of the first responses suggest.
I saw that same magazine yesterday and I'm glad to see this thread here today! Thanks!

Its pretty crazy to allow a bunch of inbred hillbillys to murder cops and raise ther youngins on a makeshift military compound

He sucks, someone should have shot him by now.

reply to post by LightWarrior11


I'm not condoning the murder of the trooper, but I'm glad to see that there are people still left in America that will stand up for what they believe. Shadowalker made a valid point that they just leave him be because he is basically on "house arrest." Even though they stated in the article that the consequences for going onto his compound would be too great. My thoughts are in the direction of: What about those SC's that are law abiding people and are being singled out by the FBI fot the title they have given themselves. Will they be the only ones that will stand up for our rapidly decaying rights or will the ABC admins start destroying them before their ideals take root?

reply to post by SumerianSoldier


Very interesting thread!

I think it's important that we differentiate between those who are extremists preparing for something, and those who are sensible preparing for the extremists.
I have no doubt that the DHS would view them both as equally threatening, when in my opinion they are not.

What I mean is, a lot of people know that history repeats itself. Those who look at history know that Hitler rose to prominence on a wave of nationalism and after a massive economic shock. They had their enemies back then too, but Hitler was actually loved and supported by many around the world before he took power and his obsessions about the "master race" truly became clear to everyone.

That's why I think that there are increasing numbers of groups, they know that extremism is on the rise, that nationalists are preparing for something. Half of all those groups the government is so worried about are solely defensive.

There are also a lot of people who are able to add and subtract.
No matter how many times the government releases a statistic to try and convince everyone that the economy is doing better, or not as bad as it could be, some know that when Greece defaults (and it most certainly will) it will mean the collapse of the €. When that happens, there will be an economic tsunami around the world, resulting in most financial institutions collapsing.

When that happens, there will be massive social unrest.

A lot of those groups the governments are scared about are simply clever enough to not buy the BS their government feeds them. They know it's not going to be fine, and they're just preparing for the penny to drop.

It's not like that just in the USA. Germany has also revealed that they have a larger neo-Nazi problem than they ever believed. There was a report on the BBC by a former neo-Nazi who claims that there are "cells" all over who are armed.

Then there's Marine Le Pen, leader of the French Nationalist party (daughter of the founder), gaining ground in France too, and seemingly becoming a real threat.

I know that in the UK we have the EDL problem too, and they are now viewed by many as an extremist organization. Just as an Islamic extremist organization was banned last year, a lot of people are hoping the EDL will be also now that they've openly joined up with European fascist groups.

We are not learning from history, and that is scaring a lot of people. While some groups are forming for their own violent ideologies, many are also forming groups to defend themselves and their communities from those threats when they arrive.

That's my view anyway.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Thank you for the lucid and well thought out post! I agree with you on multiple points.

I think it's important that we differentiate between those who are extremists preparing for something, and those who are sensible preparing for the extremists. I have no doubt that the DHS would view them both as equally threatening, when in my opinion they are not.

I think what you said here is evidenced by the figures they quoted from the law center about the rise in these groups. Americans are slowly waking up to the fact that our personal liberties are being taken away by the use of subterfuge. The gov is taking one situation and using it to erode the foundation of the constitution. Some people disagree with this. I think you can look at this scenario and realize that the FBI may push an agenda at some point to end these groups using this situation as its justification. If you look at the Trayvon/Zimmerman case, you'll see that there are those that want Zimmerman tried without the facts being firmly known. This could be a precursor to eroding our rapidly decaying justice system. There was a story I recently read here on ATS where a Muslim judge ruled in favor of a Muslim man that attacked an individual and tried to strangle him because of a halloween costume. The sum of the verdict was that it was okay for a Muslim to attack someone because their religion demanded it. Many other things going on as well.

There are also a lot of people who are able to add and subtract.
No matter how many times the government releases a statistic to try and convince everyone that the economy is doing better, or not as bad as it could be, some know that when Greece defaults (and it most certainly will) it will mean the collapse of the €. When that happens, there will be an economic tsunami around the world, resulting in most financial institutions collapsing.

Here in America, my favorite game they play with numbers is the old "Look at our unemplyment numbers!" This is where they put forth a number depicting how many are on unemployment without adding in the number of people no longer receiving benefits because they've ran out, not gotten a job.

And IMO, Obama, like Hitler, always seems to have another agenda in mind other than the interests of the country. An interesting photo I saw floating around FB the other day showed Obama reading a book titled "The Post American World." I don't even know where to begin with that.

reply to post by Wertdagf


I must have missed the part where he murdered anyone.

Only facts I can find are that he was a passenger in a car which was pulled over, he was asked for I.D. and refused, was then searched, his firearm was found, he refused to show permit, struggle ensued with trooper, he bit trooper, and was charged with assault.

If you have more info, I'd love to read it.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
reply to post by SumerianSoldier

 

no matter what he says he has been under house arrest for over a decade. He just doesnt know it.

I really like that point of view and support it.
I bet we can all agree that it has been cheaper having him jailed in this way than any prison or death sentence that would be applicable.

The phrase "sovereign citizen," is an oxymoron, and I'm tired of seeing it. Sovereigns are not citizens, and citizens are not sovereign. Did anyone ever call a king a "citizen?"

The phrase is used as a means of subtly degrading what being sovereign means. Citizenship means being a government's bitch. Being sovereign means the opposite.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Its pretty crazy to allow a bunch of inbred hillbillys to murder cops and raise ther youngins on a makeshift military compound. Atleast their mud farm is aproaching profitability.

What should we do? Wait passively inside our homes like good little sheep, and wait for the cops to come and murder us instead?

Individual Sovereignty 101

I wrote this a bit back. I'm not going to claim to necessarily be anything close to an expert, but call it my own perspective.

For the record, I don't include murdering police as part of the definition of sovereignty, personally. Apart from anything else, it's tactically suicidal. The police are able to project a vastly greater degree of force than civilians.

Gray is able to survive if it is only the local sheriff's office who is concerned about him. If the state governor (or anyone even higher up the chain) decided to make something of it, on the other hand, that would very quickly change.

One undercover cop joining their compound is all it would take. Sounds like a job for Steven Seagal. Or Jean Claude Van Damme.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
One undercover cop joining their compound is all it would take. Sounds like a job for Steven Seagal. Or Jean Claude Van Damme.

You would want more than one. One going in, if he was discovered, would probably be shot very quickly. You would want at least two, and you'd want them to be very good; both at gaining Gray's trust, and at removing him afterwards.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Zimmerman would become their leader!

I saw the headline that the OP mentioned in USA Today. I don't read that rag but it's a pretty mainstream topic for a site like this.

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
Good for him. He's free on his land. I doubt he "never leaves" as some of the first responses suggest.
I saw that same magazine yesterday and I'm glad to see this thread here today! Thanks!

Good for him?

He shot and killed a Police Officer. Personally i hope he gets septicemia from a rusty nail and the authorities won't send him medical help. That, frankly, would be just desserts.

After further reading, maybe he didn't shoot and kill someone? I guess that would make more sense and put a totally different spin on my feelings towards this story. Hmm, confused now.