Can you prove never ending evolution vs. creationism threads are productive?

reply to post by Osiris1953

Seriously, I want to know why those already involved in evolution vs. creationism threads continue to be involved with them. That is the point of this thread, please let's discuss this in a civilized manner, if it devolves into an angry poo fight, I will ask a mod to close this thread. I'd like to think this thread will get some decent responses.... but if it dies in five minutes I understand, at least I said my piece.

You are mistaken. Those threads were naturally selected and magically evolved into a form we can read as information with purpose. You say they were authored by intelligence, but you don't agree with that intelligence. Get over it. Those threads are a result of billions of years of evolution. There are no designers behind imaginary keyboards. Just because the words you are reading now are energy in the form of particles and wave in time and space does not mean something had to create the operating system that runs this reality. ATS evolved and that's the end of it. Programming code or no code, all you see here is the product of matter acting on itself for design and purpose. There is no argument. This is the way it is because science says it in theory.

I can answer this and say that it IS productive, in the sense that it very often clears up any misunderstandings with science, but the reality of the situation is the creationists need to end the war on evolution and let it go. The biggest reason why I respond to many of those threads, is to give the average reader a basic understanding of the subject and help steer them in the right direction when they are being misled about various fields and facts of science. You know, deny ignorance. Evolution is under constant attack in here by people that have done little to no research or even basic reading on the subject. Just look at some of the recent topics posted here. It's "the lie of evolution", "evolution has failed", or "the nail in the coffin for evolution", you rarely see any derogatory threads towards religion. Creationists attack evolution, then the people who understand science come in and correct them. That is the cycle. Instead of promoting religion honestly and talking about the good things about it, it's always about trashing science as if it has no merit.

The simple truth is that creationism and evolution are both compatible. One certainly doesn't negate the other, but for some reason many people think they do. The problem is that people often treat evolution as if it's a religion, rather than a field of science. Faith and science are separate concepts, but they are fully compatible.

School should be for science, math, linguistics, and other functional skills.

fairy tails, religions, and other such tripe needs to be left at home.

As far as threads that go on and on forever...ultimately they can be fun now and then during a boring night..show the religious types for what they are, and let the lurkers notice the difference between eloquent coherency based in sourced evidence, and dogmatic nonsense that refuses to accept observed reality.

So ya, as boncho said..its not about swaying anyone..really, its about putting a light on the religious so they can demonstrate their flaws.

Also it can become quite frustrating when these religious types try and legislate deities into the culture.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


But you did anyway well done.......

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

It should be up to the parents to teach anything Religious not the school. Lets keep schools teaching the scientific stuff etc not the Religious stuff.

Evolution is not science. It is speculation, based on the writings of ONE guy. Nobody on the planet thought that humans evolved from monkeys until Darwin came along. Oh, you can find a few sources that suggest there were, but look at the sources. They are a good example of revisionist history.

Teach both, or teach neither.

edit on 30-3-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

It is a hypothesis that has a mountain of data. it then graduated into a theory considering pretty much all evidence corroborated with the initial hypothesis.

I am a fan of teaching both though
it would really only take a few seconds to teach creationism:
"Some people believe a king sky ghost magicked everything into existence...now, going back to science.."

reply to post by Barcs

I can answer this and say that it IS productive, in the sense that it very often clears up any misunderstandings with science, but the reality of the situation is the creationists need to end the war on evolution and let it go. The biggest reason why I respond to many of those threads, is to give the average reader a basic understanding of the subject and help steer them in the right direction when they are being misled about various fields and facts of science. You know, deny ignorance.

I authored two evolution threads, and the latest theory was left untouched by all who participated. Leonard Susskind demonstrates, beyond any reasonable doubt, that our universe is a designed hologram of energy. The motion of the energy is governed by the information of the trinity of light. Light is both a particle and wave. Science stops here. It's also consciousness. Information is in every single quanta of light. All of it is governed, no different than the operating system in your computer. No operating system, no computer. Is evolution observed? Of course. There is no paradox. The excluded middle is realizing that both views are correct. Evolution is a process of the programming to rise above the gross states to the higher order of things. We are baptized into the water to raise to new life. Jesus said it. You must be born again. It's a process of rising.

After very many iterations of these discussions, something useful will inevitably evolve.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

It should be up to the parents to teach anything Religious not the school. Lets keep schools teaching the scientific stuff etc not the Religious stuff.

Evolution is not science. It is speculation, based on the writings of ONE guy. Nobody on the planet thought that humans evolved from monkeys until Darwin came along. Oh, you can find a few sources that suggest there were, but look at the sources. They are a good example of revisionist history.

Teach both, or teach neither.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
The only people who think that anyone thinks we evolved from monkeys is the creationist....we share a common ancestor and many many studies have shown that evolution is the best theory we have.
Look at the Laryngeal nerve of a Giraffe. here

But you will just say "Nooo my god put it there to confuse us"
I could put many links showing stuff to you but you will just ignore them going "LA la la God is the Christian God lalalalalalalala"
So I wont bother..wastes my time good day. FI

edit on 30-3-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Last bit...this proves we share a common ancestor with apes.




Go on then watch this and say Iam wrong.
I thank you goodnight


Oh and OP If this video doesn't change anyones mind you have proved your point. I don't know any better evidence and I think it would stand up in any courtroom but certain people here will just say "It's wrong".

reply to post by Osiris1953


Having once been a creationist I can say, without a doubt, that the efforts of folks attempting to debunk creation and prove evolution are indeed productive. While ATS specifically didn't play a big role in my rejection of creationism and acceptance of evolution there are folks who were involved in the debate elsewhere online that did (particularly the youtuber Aron Ra).

So while these sorts of things don't seem productive for most of people involved in the discussion they DO get seen by people who CAN be swayed.

reply to post by SaturnFX

fairy tails, religions, and other such tripe needs to be left at home.

So the Iliad shouldn't be studied?

No Doctor Seuss?

So studying ancient Egypt should strictly excluded mention of its gods?

How about the names of the planets?

Should we censor or rename them?

This sums up the motivations behind the debates perfectly:

Originally posted by SteelToe

reply to post by boymonkey74


Oh no - it's the "Laryngeal nerve of a Giraffe" video again.

In my case I do it because I value rationality/logic over everything else...mostly because I want people to vote based on those traits. Creationism isn't based on logic/rationality, and believers get to vote...so I'm only trying to show you how illogical and irrational their belief is.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
School should be for science, math, linguistics, and other functional skills.

fairy tails, religions, and other such tripe needs to be left at home.

As far as threads that go on and on forever...ultimately they can be fun now and then during a boring night..show the religious types for what they are, and let the lurkers notice the difference between eloquent coherency based in sourced evidence, and dogmatic nonsense that refuses to accept observed reality.

So ya, as boncho said..its not about swaying anyone..really, its about putting a light on the religious so they can demonstrate their flaws.

Also it can become quite frustrating when these religious types try and legislate deities into the culture.

The above 100%!!

And this isn't just happening on ATS, the amount of believers is finally shrinking while the amount of atheists has almost doubled since the mid 90s. Finally the world is waking up and opening its eyes to logic/rationality. Maybe we get lucky and in a few decades votes won't be based on irrational religious beliefs anymore

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Both of the threads you made had absolutely nothing to do with evolution, yet it was part of the title. That's exactly what I meant when I said people are attacking evolution for no reason. Leave evolution to the scientists. Focus on god.

reply to post by boncho

Well said. The issue doesn't seem to be between religious folks and those the accept the theory of evolution, there are plenty of people that are both religious and accept evolution. The issue is primarily, at least in the United States, with Biblical literalists -- the "I didn't come from no monkey, God made me out of dirt!" crowd -- rejecting any notion that conflicts with their faith. And it's not just in the area of biology, it's also basic physics, chemistry, astronomy, the earth sciences ... effectively every single branch of the natural sciences.

Going back to the OP, why be on this site at all if you're not prepared to Deny Ignorance?

In other words:

There's people who seriously believe that humans can survive INSIDE WHALES!!! Those people get to vote...and given they believe in that hogwash whale thing, I don't even wanna know how they vote on subjects. The thought of someone like that voting on something like wars or the health of citizens is SCARY in the 21st century.

reply to post by dusty1

So the Iliad shouldn't be studied?

No Doctor Seuss?

So studying ancient Egypt should strictly excluded mention of its gods?

How about the names of the planets?

Should we censor or rename them?

So you think the Iliad should be taught as a literal account of history as it happened? Or that Egyptian creation stories should be taken as scientific fact?

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by dusty1

 

So the Iliad shouldn't be studied?

No Doctor Seuss?

So studying ancient Egypt should strictly excluded mention of its gods?

How about the names of the planets?

Should we censor or rename them?

So you think the Iliad should be taught as a literal account of history as it happened? Or that Egyptian creation stories should be taken as scientific fact?

The Mayans believed the earth to float on the back of a crocodile floating in a lilly pond...so why not teach that as the truth?

Why not simply throw a dice instead of doing real science? Want to build a plane? Read Harry Potter and get started