Can you prove never ending evolution vs. creationism threads are productive?

I see these types of threads going on ad infinitum.

I have to ask myself, what's the point? Neither side of this argument is swaying the other, and probably never will.

If I am missing something here please let me know, but before you do, both sides of the equation, please answer a question:

Creationists: There is no question in your collective minds that God was behind the creation of life, whether it be through intelligent design, or literally the narrative of genesis. Would Jesus spend countless hours arguing with folks in a forum, or would he take a different approach?

Evolutionists: There is no question in your collective minds that evolution occurred and continues to occur in the natural world. With that said, why would you spend countless hours arguing over this in an online forum with people who's beliefs are such polar opposites to your own that there is no way you could influence them?

This seems pointless to me. I thoroughly respect both belief structures, however pages upon pages of mudslinging get us absolutely nowhere IMO. We live in a world where, as people, we are very divided, and the divisions continue to grow, so I cannot see the benefit of arguing tooth and nail and being openly disrespectful on a topic that is not going to see any type of amicable resolution. We are being controlled and manipulated in one form or another daily, yet we are going to waste brain power fighting over creationism?

I don't know guys, I don't see the point. TPTB want to keep us divided.... "Divide and Conquer"... don't make their jobs any easier.

Seriously, I want to know why those already involved in evolution vs. creationism threads continue to be involved with them. That is the point of this thread, please let's discuss this in a civilized manner, if it devolves into an angry poo fight, I will ask a mod to close this thread.

I'd like to think this thread will get some decent responses.... but if it dies in five minutes I understand, at least I said my piece.

I have to ask myself, what's the point? Neither side of this argument is swaying the other, and probably never will.

It's not really about the people posting and the chances about them swaying each other, it's more for the undecideds that are reading and will be swayed by one argument or the other.

The thing that I don't understand is that evolution does not necessarily negate creation. There could be a million reasons why a grand architect or creator made things into being to follow a certain course, which could include evolutionary progression.

Whether it be creation of life or creation of our Universe.

Evolution does not contradict a creator, but it does contradict many man-made religious creations, that's the problem. The people who created religion (by supposedly writing the word of God) so many years ago, weren't able to predict how much humans would learn through the sciences.

Hence all those contradictory, loose/ambiguous statements...

Yup I agree people are pig headed stubborn and don't change their mind even if presented with facts, hey Iam as guilty as anyone here for doing so.
Sometimes I think these forums are just a waste of time (The religious ones are a waste of time period) because I have changed my opinion once because of things on this website.
But I also learn new things everyday here..so it can't all be bad

reply to post by boncho


OK, I can see that, but don't you find those arguments a bit excessive in general?

And, do you really think those embroiled in the battle are thinking about swaying readers who just happen upon the thread?

Oh and most people like a good verbal ruck

Originally posted by boncho
The thing that I don't understand is that evolution does not necessarily negate creation. There could be a million reasons why a grand architect or creator made things into being to follow a certain course, which could include evolutionary progression.

I like this type of thought process. Being an agnostic, I automatically sit in the middle of this argument, and I can see the validity of either... perhaps this is why I can't comprehend the conflict.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I don't necessarily see them as a waste of time, there are plenty of topics that all of the players involved do not view as absolutes, and the discussion of such even heated discussion leads to a better understanding of all parties. So I don't see the totality of ATS a waste of time... just argument for the sake of argument.

The point you raise would be a valid one if religious ideas were not so dangerous. Certain groups within our society want to teach creationism in our school science classes for example (they already do in a few U.S states) This kind of anti-science agenda needs to be challenged anywhere it is encountered in my opinion.

Well, on the one hand, you have the Bible, written by many many people who agree on a pretty specific account about how we got here. And on the other, we have a sickly Brit who spend a LOT of time alone on a desolate island making sh*t up.

Either you believe one or the other.

Not productive.

Originally posted by Atzil321
The point you raise would be a valid one if religious ideas were not so dangerous. Certain groups within our society want to teach creationism in our school science classes for example (they already do in a few U.S states) This kind of anti-science agenda needs to be challenged anywhere it is encountered in my opinion.

Darwin's THEORY is not fact. It is peddled as fact because it does the job liberals want it to - it contradicts creation.

Schools may as well be teaching about how the Annunaki created man and lizard men still live inside the earth.

reply to post by Osiris1953


I think this thread is going to prove my point that we will not change any minds to do with Religious beliefs etc.
But hey you are right I was in a bad mood sorry dude

reply to post by Atzil321


I absolutely oppose creationism being taught in schools. I am a firm believer of the separation of church and state. If it is a public school, anything from any religion needs to be omitted.... or all creation beliefs including evolution need to be taught. But really.... the only way we can have religious equality in schools is to not espouse any one religion. Evolution is treated as a theory in schools, not an absolute, so I do not see the argument that it is being forced upon the religious students.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


It's this type of attitude that causes religion-related threads to devolve into unproductive messes. The discussion here, in this thread, isn't whether or not creationism or evolution is right. The discussion is whether or not arguing about it viscously and for extended periods of time makes any sense. Please understand that differentiation.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by Atzil321

 

I absolutely oppose creationism being taught in schools. I am a firm believer of the separation of church and state. If it is a public school, anything from any religion needs to be omitted.... or all creation beliefs including evolution need to be taught. But really.... the only way we can have religious equality in schools is to not espouse any one religion. Evolution is treated as a theory in schools, not an absolute, so I do not see the argument that it is being forced upon the religious students.

If you have something being taught in schools that contradicts religion, then you have to teach religion as well - or neither.

Hey, where's the spirit of the fairness doctrine when you need it? I guess liberals like the fairness doctrine when it suits them.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


It should be up to the parents to teach anything Religious not the school. Lets keep schools teaching the scientific stuff etc not the Religious stuff.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

It's this type of attitude that causes religion-related threads to devolve into unproductive messes. The discussion here, in this thread, isn't whether or not creationism or evolution is right. The discussion is whether or not arguing about it viscously and for extended periods of time makes any sense. Please understand that differentiation.

Um, yeah. That was a tongue-in-cheek response to add a little levity to the thread since it's about the lack of productivity with such arguments.

I was going to add something about Darwin "dating" a giant tortoise while he was there, but I thought it would piss off too may atheists.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Stop throwing the "liberals" word around, not all liberals are godless and disagree with creationism.

Schools, and politics being dominated by any one religion usually has disastrous consequences in the end. This is why it should stay out of schools. If you want creationism in school, then teach the buddhist, hindu, islamic, and all other creation beliefs as well. I see no need to discriminate against all others simply to see one religions beliefs being forced upon others.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
I was going to add something about Darwin "dating" a giant tortoise while he was there, but I thought it would piss off too may atheists.

Actually that would be pretty funny. We should all be able to laugh at ourselves.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

It should be up to the parents to teach anything Religious not the school. Lets keep schools teaching the scientific stuff etc not the Religious stuff.

Evolution is not science. It is speculation, based on the writings of ONE guy. Nobody on the planet thought that humans evolved from monkeys until Darwin came along. Oh, you can find a few sources that suggest there were, but look at the sources. They are a good example of revisionist history.

Teach both, or teach neither.