Christianity vs Atheism: The Facts

Originally posted by Starchild23
If we had no religion, the world would be in a much worse condition. People are far more willing to commit heinous crimes when they believe there is only oblivion beyond death, and nothing to hold them accountable for their actions save their peers...after all, moral is based on religion, correct?

Animals have very moral social structures. When's the last time you've seen an animal reading the bible? Baseless argument.

This is a great article about a Missionary turned Atheist - - - because of a people that have no God.

From Missionary to Atheist - - The Pirahã: People Who Define Happiness Without God

I noticed they didn’t store food. They know how to smoke and salt meat, but they almost never do that. When they bring in meat, they give it away to everyone. I asked one of them, “Don’t you want to keep meat for tomorrow?” He said, “I keep my meat in my brother’s belly. That’s where I keep what I have. I store it with my friends.”

There were a lot of values there I wasn’t prepared for, and actually those sound pretty much like values that a lot of religious people ascribe to, or aspire to, and yet they had them.

One of the most important values in Pirahã culture is what I call immediacy of experience. If you look at their stories, they don’t talk about things to come. They might talk about what they’re going to do tomorrow based on the things they’re doing today. They don’t talk about the distant future. They don’t talk about the distant past. All of their stories and all of their songs have to do with what they did today, what they saw today. They don’t make a big distinction between dreaming and regular experience. They don’t think that dreaming is just regular experience, but it’s another experience, and they don’t talk about them as being that different.ffrf.org...

Originally posted by David291
Sometimes I fail to see the point and reason of such a thread.

You can't win people, religious people and the like will just throw verses out the holy book, whichever that may be as evidence. You can then show them the definition but no, that is evidence alright, nothing can be said and they can't be reasoned with, what so ever. Most of them aren't even willing to listen.

I do too, David291, sometimes it all seems so pointless, and redundant. People like to argue, and I like to argue also. That what you said is a major problem for Christians in here, they seem to have no original thoughts on anything they post about, no alternative theories, and do not seem to read, study, or research any other book or documentation on the subject matter. Posting quotes from a questionable source does not make even a dent in the mind of another, especially if the other has read the book the quotes are taken from.

The rest of us, sadly, are never listened to by Christians, they have already formed an opinion, and that is that. We show them truth about a thing over and over, again and again, and all to no avail, it seems. They see their book as the only truth, and most other books are lies, and all Ancient Texts, Codex, and Tablets are Myth, and Fiction, written to fool us all. All other Gods and Goddesses are false, only their God is real. It is really ironic that they call themselves "sheep."

reply to post by SisyphusRide

Jesus is one man you can believe..

I might be willing to believe him, if I heard him speak, which I cannot, because he has been dead for a very long time. Did he speak to you? When, and what were the circumstances? Many people love to say, "Jesus said," when in all honesty, not one of them was there to hear it, and Christ did not write a book that I am aware of. The people who DID write about him, never met him.
How can I believe him?

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

We are not God and we can never be God.

I quote from your own book:
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10)
Care to disputer that Bible Quote, RG? You cannot have it both ways.
We are all Gods and Goddesses in training, and we all live many thousands of lives here on Earth School. The Older Souls come back as Teachers to the younger Souls, such as yourself, RG. We are born with the ability to create life, and if you have children, then you know this already. Look around the room you are in. Everything in there began as a thought in a human being's mind. The thought was put down on paper, transfered to plans and blueprints, and soon the finished product was there, ready to use. This is Creation in action.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

Jesus is one man you can believe..

I might be willing to believe him, if I heard him speak, which I cannot, because he has been dead for a very long time. Did he speak to you? When, and what were the circumstances? Many people love to say, "Jesus said," when in all honesty, not one of them was there to hear it, and Christ did not write a book that I am aware of. The people who DID write about him, never met him.
How can I believe him?

get with it my friend...

I don't care who is right with this conspiracy stuff, I only know what I see with my two eyes and that is kids with AK47's and bombs strapped on their bodies... I care about injustice on a greater level than my own selfishness.

it's not my job to figure out conspiracies... we separate the men form the cowards who use their own children in their war. My family exist because they ran to the united states military who gave them a free ride to the states, I live because of the United States Military! and I owe my gratitude...

I speak to Jesus all the time, I never hear him speaking back to me no.

I wish though...

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
My family exist because they ran to the united states military who gave them a free ride to the states, I live because of the United States Military! and I owe my gratitude...

Well congratulations! And a Mother's tears are the same no matter where her foot first touched ground!

But what does any of that have to do with the thread subject?

Christianity vs Atheism: The Facts

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
If we had no religion, the world would be in a much worse condition. People are far more willing to commit heinous crimes when they believe there is only oblivion beyond death, and nothing to hold them accountable for their actions save their peers...after all, moral is based on religion, correct?

Animals have very moral social structures. When's the last time you've seen an animal reading the bible? Baseless argument.

I agree about the superior morality of animals.

It would be interesting to look at identical twins where one devotedly practices a religion and one doesn't.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
If we had no religion, the world would be in a much worse condition. People are far more willing to commit heinous crimes when they believe there is only oblivion beyond death, and nothing to hold them accountable for their actions save their peers...after all, moral is based on religion, correct?

Animals have very moral social structures. When's the last time you've seen an animal reading the bible? Baseless argument.

I agree about the superior morality of animals.

It would be interesting to look at identical twins where one devotedly practices a religion and one doesn't.

I'll take the one who doesn't.

In my experience Atheists do it for the good of humanity - - and the religious do it because they think they have to.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Hydroman

 

You must have a reason to believe that every religion in the world is wrong.

I'm not saying they are right; I'm saying you have a reason to not believe them. I appreciate your logic, by the way. But what's your justification?

edit on CFridaypm565602f02America/Chicago30 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

My reason for the belief that every religion in the world being wrong is the plain fact that every holy book was written by men who lived in mud huts and hunted with spears.

If I were to land a Chopper in a remote village, full of people whom have never seen a white man before, lit a ciggarett in front of them with a lighter, then pulled out a gun and shot a few to install fear, they would make a religion out of it and make me a fire breathing god, who came from the heavens to punish them for their wicked ways..!!

Thats my point for not believing a 1,000's year old bunch of rubbish.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
If we had no religion, the world would be in a much worse condition. People are far more willing to commit heinous crimes when they believe there is only oblivion beyond death, and nothing to hold them accountable for their actions save their peers...after all, moral is based on religion, correct?

Animals have very moral social structures. When's the last time you've seen an animal reading the bible? Baseless argument.

I agree about the superior morality of animals.

It would be interesting to look at identical twins where one devotedly practices a religion and one doesn't.

I'll take the one who doesn't.

In my experience Atheists do it for the good of humanity - - and the religious do it because they think they have to.

That raises the question of whether motivations matter. Like a religious person who donates lots of money to charity because he thinks "God says to" is still helping people (assuming the charities are using the money to help people). Or a robber baron in a capitalist country who builds an economic empire to gain power for himself is probably helping more people than many selfless people who are only motivated by helping others.

Christianity teaches that the widow giving her last coin to charity is better than the rich man who gives a lot of money to make himself look good. But as a practical matter a coin is a coin regardless of the motives of the donor.

reply to post by cloudyday


What a horrible argument.

Really? Animals are moral? Why dont you go out in the woods then and go find a pack of wolves or a hungry black bear and discuss morality with him,

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by cloudyday

 

What a horrible argument.

Really? Animals are moral? Why dont you go out in the woods then and go find a pack of wolves or a hungry black bear and discuss morality with him,

Me Me Me - - its all about human Me.

Interesting you mention wolves. One of the most complex family focused societies of the animal world.

Originally posted by cloudyday

That raises the question of whether motivations matter. Like a religious person who donates lots of money to charity because he thinks "God says to" is still helping people (assuming the charities are using the money to help people). Or a robber baron in a capitalist country who builds an economic empire to gain power for himself is probably helping more people than many selfless people who are only motivated by helping others.

Christianity teaches that the widow giving her last coin to charity is better than the rich man who gives a lot of money to make himself look good. But as a practical matter a coin is a coin regardless of the motives of the donor.

There are some who give money to church - - instead of feed their children.

Donations to churches have been diminishing.

God is not required to be charitable. I do agree "help is help".

Atheist/Secular Charities

by Techskeptic I've been asked often why there aren't any atheist charities. Of course, as usual, people are just presuming or parroting things they heard. Of course there are atheist charities. digg.com...

“I think I could turn and live with the animals, they are so placid and self contained;
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition;
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins;
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God;
Not one is dissatisfied-not one is demented with the mania of owning things;
Not one kneels to another, nor his kind that lived thousands of years ago;
Not one is responsible or industrious over the whole earth.”
― Walt Whitman

I prefer animals, too. They are nonjudgmental.
www.goodreads.com...

Originally posted by wildtimes

“I think I could turn and live with the animals, they are so placid and self contained;
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition;
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins;
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God;
Not one is dissatisfied-not one is demented with the mania of owning things;
Not one kneels to another, nor his kind that lived thousands of years ago;
Not one is responsible or industrious over the whole earth.”
― Walt Whitman

I prefer animals, too. They are nonjudgmental.
www.goodreads.com...

Check out my thread on earthworms. Divine Earthworms

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by cloudyday

 

What a horrible argument.

Really? Animals are moral? Why dont you go out in the woods then and go find a pack of wolves or a hungry black bear and discuss morality with him,

Yes, what an interesting example. You do realize that as long as the members do their part, or have a very good reason not to, they will always be taken care of? They cooperate and coexist better than most American families.

You obviously have not done your research. And "moral" is just the word we use for a much deeper concept...the concept of natural behavior. The concept of sharing and coexistence. As the most violent creature in the world (as regards the balance between intellect and brutality) we have no right to judge other creatures on how they treat their families. Almost every animal does it better than we do.

The race of Homo Sapiens is the most fickle, uncaring, irresponsible and undeserving species on Earth. I will adhere to this belief until I see another animal do everything we've done to ourselves and the planet. On that day, which I doubt will ever come, I will amend this statement. Until then, humans are no better than a virus. Just a step above AIDS.

reply to post by Starchild23


Sorry if my patience are running thin, but I just cant wrap my head around what you guys are trying to say.

Are you all seriously that stupid? Or are you all trolling me?

You people are seriously telling me living with wolves is better than living with Christians?

Jesus, you people.....WOW.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Sorry if my patience are running thin, but I just cant wrap my head around what you guys are trying to say.

Are you all seriously that stupid? Or are you all trolling me?

You people are seriously telling me living with wolves is better than living with Christians?

Jesus, you people.....WOW.

And your arrogance isn't convincing me you know any better. Like I said, I firmly believe almost any animal on earth deserves much better than us, and is honestly a better species.

Again, do your research and then try to talk down to me. It might work a little better.

reply to post by Starchild23


There is no convincing you, and I aim not to convince you.

My mission on these forums is to defend the integrity of my faith, and help strenghten fellow brothers in Christ.

I could careless about atheists, new age believers, muslims, etc etc on this forum, aside from proving them wrong and arguing with them.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Starchild23

 

There is no convincing you, and I aim not to convince you.

My mission on these forums is to defend the integrity of my faith, and help strenghten fellow brothers in Christ.

I could careless about atheists, new age believers, muslims, etc etc on this forum, aside from proving them wrong and arguing with them.

You can't convince me without logical arguments. And if there is no logic to your faith, then your hope is a foolish one. There must be reason to hope...otherwise, you will walk to your end.