Why there's good reason to believe the "Abomination that Causes Desolations" will happen this spr

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


Nope...we are reigning with Christ. All we need to know is how to live in him, and how to serve him. Why does it matter what the future holds? We know what our future holds, regardless of what comes on the Earth - if we stand firm in Christ (and if we don't twist, pervert, and distort God's Word), our future will be an eternity in heaven in the presence of our Father and of his Son.

The modern nation of Israel is false Israel. A beautiful deception, but a deception nonetheless.
All events that appear to fulfill common interpretations of prophecy are deception. They come and go, and none ever fulfill anything at all. It's all deception.
However, if prophecy has not been fulfilled within the revealed timeframe, then the Word of God, the Son of God, and the Spirit of God are all liars.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall

 

In that post of mine you quoted, I said that I had translated Revelation from the original Greek.
So, when you suggest that I further consider the Greek word for "generation"...trust me, I have. In every other place where Jesus uses the word, he uses it in reference to the generation of Jews he came among. I certainly don't think he means a literal 30-year generation, but he does mean the generation he had been speaking of since he began his ministry - the wicked and adulterous generation that crucified him and came to an end when Jerusalem was destroyed "in fulfillment of all that has been written" (Luke 21:22).

edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

Exactly my friend. It wasn't totally directed at you, I just used your mentioning of the phrases as an opportunity to bring it up and discuss it. There's so much we are deceived by when it comes to the translations of the old and new testament. You obviously know your stuff. I'm enjoying your posts along with this whole thread.

reply to post by CLPrime


Hi CLP. Isn't it possible though that what you see as fulfilled are just 'mirrored' images just on a much smaller scale, of what is yet to come?

there are signs to come, the 2 witness, the Temple being built, the mark of the best, the drying up of the Euphrates river, just to name a few, yes the time is near, but not yet still for man still has time to repent. the chosen have been "marked" .The lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. want the full text, here it is thelordsprayer.net... only if you believe. do not cast pearls before swine

I just want to throw this question out there in general.

The popular opinion among Futurists/Premillennial Dispensationalists is that Christ will come and establish a physical kingdom of Israel for 1000 years, at which time the animal sacrifices will be re-established.

So, let me ask you... if Christ came the first time to be the ultimate sacrifice for sin (read the book of Hebrews), why in the world would he come back and establish the old, imperfect animal sacrifices? Why would Jesus subvert his own death on the cross? Why would Jesus undo the new covenant (which brings life - 3000 people were saved on the Day of Pentecost) by re-establishing the old covenant (which only brought death - 3000 people died on the day the Law was given)? Why would Jesus forsake spiritual perfection for physical imperfection? Why would Jesus forsake God's unlimited grace and demand our return to man's inability to achieve perfection?

The perfect sacrifice has been offered for the sins of world. Why do we so want to return to the imperfect?

reply to post by CLPrime


Your previous post to me is a very blanketed way to dismiss everything that is happening before our eyes.

No disrespect, but I think your pride in your own understanding is shutting your eyes to the realities of our generation.

You are clearly well learned in the scriptures, But your POV kind of relegates the whole book to obsolescence.

I can't get on board with that, sorry. You and I are at am impasse.

Good luck, though, and I hope your understanding continues to unfold.

reply to post by CLPrime
just a question have you read Hebrews 13? now then if so verse 8 should say it all, for he does not take away , but adds to for he was the sacrifice, by his blood we are cleansed, sin nor more, ask forgiveness for what you have done.

reply to post by will615


Where do we stop with that? If there's a primary and secondary fulfillment, is there a tertiary fulfillment? That's just an attempt to turn past events into wishful thinking (though, why anyone would want these judgements to come on the world a second time, I have no idea). We want prophecy to still be future to us, so we apply everything we find in Scripture to our future. This is rejection of God's Word in favour lies. We believe want we want, and force Scripture to fit our views. We can't do that. If we do, we will pay.

The Old Testament was looking ahead to the perfection achieved in Christ. Nothing in the Old Testament goes beyond the destruction of Jerusalem. The New Testament was living in the perfection achieved in Christ. Their hope (Peter called it a "glorious hope") was in his return (to bring salvation to those waiting for him - Hebrews 9:28). Even though I testify that the return (parousia, erchomai, apocalupsis) of Christ has happened, I also testify of the fact that it is still future for us, because we are still alive. When we die, then we will be caught up together with those who were raised at his coming, and so we will ever be with the Lord. This, we might say, is the Second Coming we wait for.

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


I have no pride in my understanding, and I don't claim to understand it all. What I do understand, I only understand because God has given to me. What I don't understand, I don't understand because I continue to fall short of perfection (as we all do). You and I may be at an impasse, but, in the end, that makes no difference. What matters is whether you and/or I are at an impasse with Scripture. It's God's Word that we must be faithful to.

And by the way: how can I possibly say that Scripture is obsolete when the whole of God's Word is given for us to know God, and to know how to be restored as his people?

reply to post by Alpha Arietis
some find it hard to know the words" come take of my flesh and drink my blood" or "one must be born again" not many understand the meaning nor the teaching, it is like telling some one the grass is blue when the see green.

I came here to read a story. But all i see is complaints and bickering about what forum its on...

I went to bed, woke up, checked the site and found more people joined this thread and had different interpretations from the OP again. So, which one of you guys has the holy spirit helping them understand the scriptures? No one has answered yet. Why?

Originally posted by Hydroman
So, which one of you guys has the holy spirit helping them understand the scriptures? No one has answered yet. Why?

Because it's a loaded question.

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis

Originally posted by Hydroman
So, which one of you guys has the holy spirit helping them understand the scriptures? No one has answered yet. Why?

Because it's a loaded question.

Why is that? Is it really that hard to tell if the holy spirit, the creator of the universe, is helping you? Is it that vague in its communication with you?

reply to post by Hydroman


Answer us this first. Why are you bothering with this thread?

You stated earlier that your not a believer. This thread is directed to those who believe in the Bible. How each of us understand prophecy doesn't matter as long as we believe God's Word. Why do you think there is so many forms of Christianity? Catholics, Baptists, Lutheran, Jehova's, etc? All different interpretations.

I just can't understand why you non-believers waste your time clicking, (let alone commenting) on these threads.

reply to post by Hydroman


Maybe the fault should not be placed on the HS for vagueness. Maybe, we as imperfect humans are at fault for not being fully receptive and discerning on these matters. I don't think that the Christians here are of the belief that one's interpretation of prophesy determines their position in right standing with God or their salvation. (at least I haven't seen that on this particular thread)

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis

Originally posted by Hydroman
So, which one of you guys has the holy spirit helping them understand the scriptures? No one has answered yet. Why?

Because it's a loaded question.

Why is that? Is it really that hard to tell if the holy spirit, the creator of the universe, is helping you? Is it that vague in its communication with you?

I think you're working off some assumptions about what the Holy Spirit is, and how it functions. I suspect you gleaned these misconceptions from some "Christians" that had little understanding of what they were talking about. Perhaps from the church you mentioned earlier.

If anyone tells you that "the spirit moved them" to tell you something, or that "God told them" anything, it's best to steer clear. Delusional people are dangerous.

Originally posted by will615
Answer us this first. Why are you bothering with thread?

You stated earlier that your not a believer. This thread is directed to those who believe in the Bible. How each of us understand prophecy doesn't matter as long as we believe God's Word. Why do you think there is so many forms of Christianity? Catholics, Baptists, Lutheran, Jehova's, etc? All different interpretations.

I just can't understand why you non-believers waste your time clicking, (let alone commenting) on these threads.

Because I search for truth. So, when I see something about prophecy, I have to think, "Is there actually something like that happening? Let me check it out...." Then I get here and I see many people have many different interpretations of the same verses in biblical scripture. Now, as an outsider looking at this mess, how am I supposed to believe any of it? This has been my point.

As a christian, I was taught that the holy spirit guides us and helps us understand scripture. If that's the case, the holy spirit is NOT guiding most of these people here. Why would it give so many different interpretations to these verses? So, either the holy spirit is guiding ONE person, or it is NOT guiding ANY of them. See what I'm saying? If the holy spirit is guiding one of them, which one is it and how do you know?

reply to post by will615

I think the threads on this site should be all-inclusive and not divisive. Although, Hydro and I are often on opposing sides, his input is valuable and well thought out. We, as Christians need to be able to answer these tough questions confidently and in a loving manner.

Originally posted by micmerci
Maybe the fault should not be placed on the HS for vagueness. Maybe, we as imperfect humans are at fault for not being fully receptive and discerning on these matters.

So the best answer would be for all of them to keep quiet, wouldn't it? Actually when I brought this up to a christian missionary friend of mine, that was his suggestion. He said, "Keep it to yourself. That's wisdom."