Melted Fuel in Reactor 2. Suppression Chamber Destroyed. -- 'Fukushima City Needs to be Evacuated'

so...with all this in mind....who's up for some alaska king crab or pacific salmon or mahi mahi? jesus, i live in stockton, california, 70 miles east of san fransisco...why do i get the feeling that i should go out and get a geiger counter to carry to our local grocery store

and...why would anybody buy any food products from japan...i'm sure there are people in that country that would fudge alittle on the contamination levels in their products so they could make a few more yen. cynical thought, i know but..................

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by ofNight

 

I looked into this thread due to the title. The sources however say not a word about any evacuation being needed.

I'm not sure I ever see the point to fear mongering.

enenews.com...

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
I have to pose a pretty simple question here, but I'll throw in a couple of facts first;

a.) The fuel used is called Mox, which is a mix of plutonium, zircon and other mediating elements, and
b. ) Plutonium has a critical mass of about 16kg's (some articles state 4kg or less but that is with a trigger)

Critical mass is defined as the point when enough mass is accumulated self bombardment occurs and results in a nuclear reaction that causes a nuclear explosion.

Critical Mass (def)
The minimum amount of fissile material that can sustain a nuclear chain reaction under a given set of conditions the minimum amount or number required for something to happen, begin, etc.

On Plutonium

About Plutonium Bombs
Nuclear Weapons

Now at some point, with melted Mox rods, their individual compont materials will separate and settle, stratify into molten layers if you will.

The Question: How much actual plutonium is in each rod and how many rods per reactor?

Once melting and stratification starts to occur, there is constantly increasing mass added to each layer over time based on material availability (the rods). Eventually, if the amount of p239 is of sufficient quantity in each rod, the stratified p239 layer will reach and/or exceed the critical mass "at rest" level of 16kg. When this happens an uncontrolled nuclear reaction has a high probability of occuring, just like an atomic bomb.

There are a couple of problems;

The containment vessel will not contain this kind of explosion
The resulting explosion will send a few pounds (at least) of plutonium into the atmosphere. One pound distributed evenly amongst seven billion people will kill them all.

The conclusion is simple, since the rods are made up of plutonium plus mediators, this material has to be prevented from melting and achieving critical mass through stratification, otherwise, we're all screwed.

This scenario has two outcomes, it goes very bad or it goes ELE bad imho. All we can do is wait and see.

Cheers - Dave

I thought only reactor 3 was MOX?
This is referencing reactor 2 which is LEU.

commons.wikimedia.org...:Fukushima_I_NPP_1975_reactors_1_to_4_crop_damage.png

reply to post by bobs_uruncle
I'm from Detroit area and most people, and even the people that work at Ferm, don't even really kmow what happened at Fermi 1. But we almost had a melt down, that was the book , " The Day we almost lost Detroit" I believe that was the name.
What you say is interesting as in the older reactors they made a slope at the bottom of the chamber, so as to keep the molten material from dropping hard on the floor of the chamber and maybe go BOOM. I was thinking China syndrome, but the critical mass is the big thing.

If this reaches a critical mass you speak of, if you just look at this wrong it's going to blow. This is beginning to look worse everyday.

At the Fermi 1 they had a liquid sodium cooling fluid. When Fermi 1 was finished some fool threw a beer can into the cooling chamber, the beer can lodged in the impeller blade and stopped it. They didn't know what to do as this had never happened before, they flooded the chamber with 50,000 gallons of water, just hoping it would work. Now after all these years and the 50,0000 gallons of water sitting there they started to put it in to one of the Great lakes. Even with much protest by the people they put it in the lake, I won't comment on my thought's of this.
Fermi 2 is now in operation, after being stopped for years. I was down there when they had the reaction chamber stuck and had to use some type of metal decintegrations device, to free the metal wedges that held it in place.

This Japan thing is going to be way, way worse than any thing to date. It says the next time the earth, will be destroyed by fire.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


Both stones that are soft and sandstone can be unstable.

So probably not a good idea to dig underneath a large, heavy, facility in an earthquake zone.

i knew something was really wrong when i watch them blow up last year WTF how long have they known this and why are they just now telling us the world really needs to get on tepcos case they have a main office in washington dont they

Originally posted by paratus

I thought only reactor 3 was MOX?
This is referencing reactor 2 which is LEU.

commons.wikimedia.org...:Fukushima_I_NPP_1975_reactors_1_to_4_crop_damage.png

But who really knows what they were using? There has been no transparency out of Tepco or the Japanese government and they have certainly lied repeatedly. I am surprised more of them haven't fallen on their swords (since I am ronin and understand the code). But I guess greed supersedes honor?

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by MamaJ

This scenario has two outcomes, it goes very bad or it goes ELE bad imho. All we can do is wait and see.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

I am bar far educated on this matter. I read your post and it all makes sense however I was not under the impression it could cause an ELE. Can you go into further detail....ya know....for dummies who are unaware. Thanks!

If you could line up all ~7 billion people in front of a dispersion machine that would administer 1/7,000,000,000th of 1 pound to each one of those ~7 billion individuals they will all die. It might take weeks or months or a year, but they will all develop cancer and die.

Now take the total amount at Fukushima and consider criticality at 16kg's with a number of latent masses nearby of say 10% of the total of 210kgs or 21kgs. Let's use 3 piles of 7kg's or 15.4 lbs times three. Now this is probably a worst case scenario, so don't get your nickers in a knot.

If during meltdown and stratification, there was a sudden influx of p239 to a main pool of stratified p239 that was say 2 or 3 pounds below critical mass, that would probably start a chain reaction. It would blow apart the containment chamber and level the surrounding area, probably about a mile out in radius. The flame column, that is normally seen from a nuclear weapon, would likely extend anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 feet vertically and it would be carrying much of that latent p239 and u238 that was laying around in a melted or semi melted state as basically a weaponized aerosol. If the weather conditions were within 20% of being right for delivery, the Jet Stream would pick it up. So what Tepco has is basically a large mass aerosol "dirty bomb" sitting there waiting to go bang.

I am quite sure the Japanese don't want this to happen and will do everything in their power to prevent it from happening. But considering the ineptitude, greed, deceit and lack of transparency by all the governments of this little blue marble, there is a better than non-zero probability that it will happen.

Now back to probabilities, not everyone in the area of a dirty bomb dies, even if the area is planet sized. It is all in the luck of the draw and calculating the effects of wind and water. People may be close to a cloud of material and not be traumatically effected, as the direction and wind currents may drop large portions in centralized or specific areas away from them. This of course makes those areas dead zones, but those dead zones also decrease the risk for other areas. So, even though 1lb of p239 could kill everyone on the planet, it is unlikely that even 20lbs will. However, it would be an earth shattering event as much of the planet would be rendered uninhabitable/inhospitable. It would screw up the oceans and the food supply.

But who knows what is going to happen. But I'll tell you a little story... In 1987 there was a plane carrying nine 1kg rods for a weapon system in SA. The rods came from NK under US and SA supervision and the lead handler was my CO. The plane exploded over the Indian Ocean killing the crew and 140 passengers (it was a covert op during the weapons embargo to SA). The rods were in a special container near the back of the plane and a fire started towards the middle (long story, I'll do a thread about it sometime). An investigator I know from the UN (I still keep my intel community contacts) told me that if that plane had of landed, the island that it was going to land on would have been dead for 10,000 years. The material fortunately didn't go critical, the plane broke up at about 9,000 feet which separated the central cargo bay fire from the tail section. It hit the water and sank more than 15,000 feet. When the SRO brought up certain parts of the plane, they had to wear radiation hazmat suits. I'm not a religious man, but I still say a little prayer for those poor people on the anniversary every year. So this stuff is dangerous, make no mistake. I have radiation detectors here in Canada and I was noticing a 3000% increase (30 times higher) above background radiation in areas of pooled rain water.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

I'm from Detroit area and most people, and even the people that work at Ferm, don't even really kmow what happened at Fermi 1. But we almost had a melt down, that was the book , " The Day we almost lost Detroit" I believe that was the name.
What you say is interesting as in the older reactors they made a slope at the bottom of the chamber, so as to keep the molten material from dropping hard on the floor of the chamber and maybe go BOOM. I was thinking China syndrome, but the critical mass is the big thing.

If this reaches a critical mass you speak of, if you just look at this wrong it's going to blow. This is beginning to look worse everyday.

At the Fermi 1 they had a liquid sodium cooling fluid. When Fermi 1 was finished some fool threw a beer can into the cooling chamber, the beer can lodged in the impeller blade and stopped it. They didn't know what to do as this had never happened before, they flooded the chamber with 50,000 gallons of water, just hoping it would work. Now after all these years and the 50,0000 gallons of water sitting there they started to put it in to one of the Great lakes. Even with much protest by the people they put it in the lake, I won't comment on my thought's of this.
Fermi 2 is now in operation, after being stopped for years. I was down there when they had the reaction chamber stuck and had to use some type of metal decintegrations device, to free the metal wedges that held it in place.

This Japan thing is going to be way, way worse than any thing to date. It says the next time the earth, will be destroyed by fire.

We had a problem here in Canada in 1989, something about a nuclear "audit" in Ontario. Seems that 27kg's of p239 went missing, hmmmmm. I'll defer to Mr. Strong on this one as he was the one who confirmed (during our telephone conversation) that what I was told in SA was absolutely correct. I think that was a brown shorts day for him ;-o that someone outside of his "offices" knew about that little scenario. It was funny actually, he was bitching about External Affairs and the Chad fiasco (hostages and a reactor) and I was bitching about External Affairs and the SA fiasco (meaning the CDN ambassador almost getting my family and myself killed through negligence and inaction). We all have a past eh?

ETA: I just remembered something, isn't Strong now west of the prevailing radioactive winds? Must just be a coincidence huh?

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by calnorak

Originally posted by Mkoll
If things get worse there I could easily imagine that China will accept the ensuing Japanese exodus. They do have plenty of ghost cities waiting for habitation, after all.

There is some really bad blood between the Japanese and the Chinese (yes still). It would be a really big step in character for the Chinese govt to let them stay.

To be fair the Chinese sent loads of Aid and cash to Japan after the SHTF so maybe, just maybe they could offer more support.

dont worrie be happy your worthless goverment is on its way, dont worrie your goverment will just change the established decimal points so no harm can befall you, you are safe if you dont breath air and live on the dark side of the moon

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
But who really knows what they were using? There has been no transparency out of Tepco or the Japanese government and they have certainly lied repeatedly. I am surprised more of them haven't fallen on their swords (since I am ronin and understand the code). But I guess greed supersedes honor?

I am sure that we will see a big Wave of ritual Suicide
after this Disaster is in relative normal State (?)
to do a Suicide and left the Mess behind is even more bad
so many of the responsible People try to help/ clean their bad Karma!

reply to post by crazydaisy


i can't believe they have not been evacuated yet.


they should have been evacuated THE SECOND the earthquake happened.


what the in ******************** are they still doing LIVING THERE?~!?~?~~?~?~!?@~?!2e`

reply to post by Destinyone


Then if you know about Reich's work, then you know the scare scam of the nuclear materials.

I just want to get my hands on a little bit of this stuff, about 1 kilogram, and test it with all kinds of stuff, but in no way make it a weapon, or implement it into a weapon.

good post

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by crazydaisy

 

i can't believe they have not been evacuated yet.


they should have been evacuated THE SECOND the earthquake happened.


what the in ******************** are they still doing LIVING THERE?~!?~?~~?~?~!?@~?!2e`

Many People who are still there have a very strong Relationship
to their Home, for them it is their own Kingdom!

Normally the first born Son will heritage the Land
this mean he get the Benefit from it
but must take care also of the spiritual World,
many People here belief that their Ancestors are living there
where they have been their whole Life!

When your Family owned a Place for 300, 400, 500 or even more Years
you cant just run away, even when this mean your own Death
(it is better to die in your own burning Castle
than living somewhere in Misery and Loneliness )

I think also that there is no use in the Evacuation of the older People
who are behind the Re-Production Circle,
this People can stand without trouble 100mSv a Year and more!

Regards