A Lesson in Jumping to Conclusions (the Trayvon Martin shooting)

It'd be nice if these MULTIPLE threads would stick to the facts. Everyone seems to be making up their own facts as they go.

The one and only fact in this case is that a person is dead at the hands of another and how that happened is the only thing that matters, not what anyone was wearing or what their past behaviors were like.

The rest is all no more than fodder for the sheep to chew on. Aren't we supposed to be denying something on this site?

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by Submarines

 

I just love all of these "Holier than Thou" people speaking on the use of deadly force, who have never been in a similar situation.

I love all the people making assumptions in this thread!!
How do you know what I have experienced or not??

Another point for the OP.

Really?

Kidding, right?

What percentage of these posting on the use of deadly force have actually been in a similar position?

Be honest.

reply to post by FlyersFan



Lol I got slammed so hard for telling friends/family what really happened, now it is all finally coming out.. But as you said, many people, I mean sheeple have already made up their minds and no amount of facts or evidence will ever awaken them. Just when I think people are waking up, in general, they are falling back to sleep.

U

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
It'd be nice if these MULTIPLE threads would stick to the facts. Everyone seems to be making up their own facts as they go.

The one and only fact in this case is that a person is dead at the hands of another and how that happened is the only thing that matters, not what anyone was wearing or what their past behaviors were like.

The rest is all no more than fodder for the sheep to chew on. Aren't we supposed to be denying something on this site?

Disregard mistake.

reply to post by Submarines

What percentage of these posting on the use of deadly force have actually been in a similar position?

Usually when I tell teenagers to clear off, they clear off. I don't know what Zimmerman's problem was.

nvmd

Originally posted by DJW001
Why do you assume he was lying, rather than telling the truth?
All you are doing is displaying your own prejudices.

He's a teen caught with stolen jewlery in his backpack. It isn't 'prejudice' to say that teens lie to cover their backends when they get caught with their pants down. It's just what happens. If YOU wish to believe every teenager who is caught red handed when they come up with lame excuses ... go right ahead. Good luck with that.

There are no guilty people in jail. They all say they are innocent.
Some are innocent for sure ... but they ALL say they are, even when they are not.

Do you really believe that a high school kid had diamond tiaras and ruby studded earrings in his bag? Or are plastic earrings not "jewelry?"

No one said anything about a diamond tiara or ruby studded earrings. You are spinning.
And stolen jewlery and burglary tools are just that .. stolen jewlery and burglary tools.
It is what it is.

reply to post by FlyersFan

He's a teen caught with stolen jewlery in his backpack. It isn't 'prejudice' to say that teens lie to cover their backends when they get caught with their pants down. It's just what happens. If YOU wish to believe every teenager who is caught red handed when they come up with lame excuses ... go right ahead. Good luck with that.

There are no guilty people in jail. They all say they are innocent.
Some are innocent for sure ... but they ALL say they are, even when they are not.

And the jails are full of murderers who swear they were acting in self defense.

No one said anything about a diamond tiara or ruby studded earrings. You are spinning.
And stolen jewlery and burglary tools are just that .. stolen jewlery and burglary tools.
It is what it is.

The problem is:

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen

www.miamiherald.com...

Who is spinning and jumping to conclusions now?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It doesnt make any sense to me.

Because it's a high profile case (since Obama made it national news), that serves to fill an agenda; mainly get the backing of the black community. Remember, it's an election year. Sick, yes, but that is reality. Presidents don't make comments like this without the backing of various handlers who have already played all angles to determine the best way to profit from it.

Case in point: Obama camp profits from hoodies

Don't worry it'll fade away in a few days it's had it's monent of fame Mom is going to get some money from somewhere.

Did Zimmerman walk up to the guy and say "hi, I'm the neighborhood watch and I don't recognize you"? and then Taryvon attacked him in some crazy way? Do we have pictures of his broken nose and lacerations? What triggered Taryvon to attack...if he did attack?

I'm not saying Taryvon was some innocent kid, but damn Zimmerman was really was hyped up on his hot pursuit as we can hear on his phone.

Lastly...was the shot to the chest at point range or a distance...

Originally posted by DJW001

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen

www.miamiherald.com...
Who is spinning and jumping to conclusions now?

The miami herald and you. A teenage boy has a backpack with bunches of jewlery that isn't his AND a burglery tool. How many teenage boys do you know who have a backpack full of jewlery that doesn't belong to them and burglery tools stuffed in their locker ?? It's stolen property. But whatever ... believe what you want.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
What triggered Taryvon to attack...if he did attack?

edit on 27-3-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

This is the most poignant question from your post.

I'd like to know as well. Was it because of his views on racial sterotypes? Was he acting out of anger, embarassment, fear? We'll never know now.

All we do know from eye-witnesses is that he did confront, punch and start beating Zimmerman.
Zimmerman felt him going for his gun and shot him. I'm guessing there wasn't much time to think at that point. Very sad.

reply to post by FlyersFan

The miami herald and you. A teenage boy has a backpack with bunches of jewlery that isn't his AND a burglery tool. How many teenage boys do you know who have a backpack full of jewlery that doesn't belong to them and burglery tools stuffed in their locker ?? It's stolen property. But whatever ... believe what you want.

So the Miami Herald is a reliable source when they publish a "leak" that refers to a screwdriver as "burglary tools," but spinning when they point out that there is no evidence that the jewelry was actually stolen. Feel free to believe whatever you want, but you yourself have derailed your own thread by arguing your own prejudices rather than sticking to factual observations.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DJW001

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen

www.miamiherald.com...
Who is spinning and jumping to conclusions now?

The miami herald and you. A teenage boy has a backpack with bunches of jewlery that isn't his AND a burglery tool. How many teenage boys do you know who have a backpack full of jewlery that doesn't belong to them and burglery tools stuffed in their locker ?? It's stolen property. But whatever ... believe what you want.

What is concidered a burglery tool? I guess the part that gets me and seems like a made up story to justifiy the shooting is Zimmerman saying the boy punched and knocked him to the ground, then jumped on him and started to bang his head on the ground. So with all that going on Zimmerman was able to get his gun out of his pocket and then somehow reach around to shoot Trayvon in the chest.

reply to post by xuenchen


Profiteers as in 'amberlamps chasers?'

This is the worst part of it all. The blaxploitation aspect. Judge Judy would call it a wash. Even Judge Joe Brown would dismiss it, but, put it on advisement. Simply because of the three ring circus and the fact that other parties are attempting to (and succeeding) profit off this mess. The victims families are being put through the wringer. They will receive nary the profit of any of the other big players.

Cases like this, lawyers and pols make their money... influence, platform, popularity. (especially in election year)

Guess who loses? Definitely Martin's family. Definitely Zimmerman's family. The biggest loser of all has to be George Zimmerman, because he has to face it all.

Odd how a case like this can absolutely polarize a nation in election year. Even with all the propaganda about taking away peoples guns, martial law, race riots... people won't accept this as the catalyst.

Interesting story that I can relate to this incident...

My mom's boyfriend, after they broke up he moved to the cities. He was working construction and lived in what may be termed as a "crack house". So he was working and dealing with shady folks all the time. He was also a really bad #shut yo mouth#. 6 dan Ishin Ryu. Anyway, "allegedly" a crackhead broke into his room and tried to either assault or take his product by knife.
Needless to say the perpetrator got his ass beat to within an inch of his life. My moms BF got stabbed decent enough to warrant self defense. Yet, since he basically had 'expert credentials' but a very limited history of 'drunken brawls' when he was in his 20's, he went to prison for 8-10, and was out in 5. For getting stabbed in bed in his house. He borrowed $40k to fight it and lost.
He was not a military man, just a drywall hanger who liked drugs and had years of training in karate. The burglar was charged with burglary, assault, sat 360 days in jail and sued the homeowner insurance and got paid lord knows how much. My mom's boyfriend got 40 some stitches across his chest and arms before he took the other dude out.
The morale of the story is that the prosecutor laid out a case of himself being tough on violence, without actually addressing the facts. I read the papers and it was solid gold that my mom's bf was completely justified, except for the fact that he was highly trained and used excessive force, and only his hands "allegedly". His only problem was that he didn't kill the dude. He would've walked.

Now just think what that's going to mean ^^^ in a couple years. Killing machines? John Rambo Redux?

What I really think is that this is a person on person crime. Still we only have one side of the story. Every DA will say that the worst testimony is that of an eye witness.

Still really doubt that this will cause a race riot. Florida is just #ed to begin with... I lay no trust in what happens there.

reply to post by Freenrgy2

All we do know from eye-witnesses is that he did confront, punch and start beating Zimmerman.
Zimmerman felt him going for his gun and shot him. I'm guessing there wasn't much time to think at that point. Very sad.

Correction: all we know is that Zimmerman claims that Martin confronted, punched, and started beating him. Zimmerman claims that he felt Martin going for his gun (how did Martin know it was there if it was concealed?). There were no eyewitnesses to any of this. One witness claims to have witnessed a struggle, but not who started it nor how it ended. How convenient.

Nobody just assumed he was a racist..

Until they heard his racist slur in the 911 call...

Its Zimmermans racist words that gave him the term...racist

When you say, the "COONS" always get away during a 911 call and then that person kills someone that is black, it doesnt make it look good.

If Zimmerman didnt seem like a racist dog on the 911 tape nobody would believe he was racist.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DJW001

No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen

www.miamiherald.com...
Who is spinning and jumping to conclusions now?

The miami herald and you. A teenage boy has a backpack with bunches of jewlery that isn't his AND a burglery tool. How many teenage boys do you know who have a backpack full of jewlery that doesn't belong to them and burglery tools stuffed in their locker ?? It's stolen property. But whatever ... believe what you want.

What is concidered a burglery tool? I guess the part that gets me and seems like a made up story to justifiy the shooting is Zimmerman saying the boy punched and knocked him to the ground, then jumped on him and started to bang his head on the ground. So with all that going on Zimmerman was able to get his gun out of his pocket and then somehow reach around to shoot Trayvon in the chest.

edit on 27-3-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

So, eye-witness accounts = made-up story to you?

I have no idea what the screwdriver was for. But, logically, in the context of what it was found with, suggests it could have been used to pry something open even used as a bump key.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Freenrgy2

 

All we do know from eye-witnesses is that he did confront, punch and start beating Zimmerman.
Zimmerman felt him going for his gun and shot him. I'm guessing there wasn't much time to think at that point. Very sad.

Correction: all we know is that Zimmerman claims that Martin confronted, punched, and started beating him. Zimmerman claims that he felt Martin going for his gun (how did Martin know it was there if it was concealed?). There were no eyewitnesses to any of this. One witness claims to have witnessed a struggle, but not who started it nor how it ended. How convenient.

I would "CLAIM" all those things too if after I shot and killed someone and say that he had some candy and iced tea.

My "CLAIMS" would look very very similar to his.