A skeptical view

Originally posted by Morg234You know that feature of sceptic posts is getting repetitive and tiresome.

What!? & the thousands of hours spent looking into this phenom by so called experts hasn't become repetitive and tiresome? Seeing 'after 60-70 years of trying' they've come up with nothing yet! Apart from thousands of books/ DVD's etc etc so on & so forth; that have got us where ?!.. no where imo...You'll have to come up with a better rebuttal than that my friend-- all due respect


I was a heavy duty staunch believer up until about 13 years ago when I decided to 'engage' this enigma properly with no glossing over! As a staunch believer I used to gloss over the data put forward all the time; because I believed!... I don't do that now.


peace.

dej...

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
No, not completely conclusive physical evidence like a crashed saucer or alien body, but there IS physical evidence.

a few of the best physical trace cases

And about that alien body or saucer, many insiders believe that the government has covered up that evidence.
I'm sure you're familiar with the Roswell Incident.

edit on 26-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: added roswell

Well I don`t know. There is a case in Saskatchewan where a guy claimed to have contact and got a matrix print of burns on his chest.
www.collectionscanada.gc.ca...

I have no idea if UFOs are real and extraterrestrial. They may be. There is reason to believe they are real.
But they are also just there as part of the scenery, and much of UFOlogy and reports are communications commentary on events, dressed up as reports of UFO`s. As I say, along with the reports, are references to mythology. Its all discussion of inside information except that to most people it would seem trivial.

Until you get a case like Lonnie Zamora. I dissected that case one time and discovered he was talking about the JFK assassination, and was making the claim that time travelers, beamed into people matrix style, like smiths, and shot JFK. He said that Lee Harvey Oswald had told the police that and that he had seen it and he shot the cop who shot out the window. and hit the president. He also said that the marksmanship was uncanny, and it was all done like it was done by professionals.

To understand all that, you need to understand the language of innuendo and the context with which it is being used. So JFK was shot, in 1963, and Zamora was in 1964.
November 22, 1963 Kennedy shot.
So then on Nov 22 1966 someone else makes a ufo report and comments further on it

www.angelfire.com...

To understand this keep in mind you need to know a lot more about the world this galaxy and the universe than you have been taught in school.
You need to be in the loop and to be in the loop, you need to know a lot of secret information that no one would believe.

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by dejarmaX

 

I am like you. I am pretty confident that there is life out there, but i highly doubt they ever visited our tiny planet in middle of nowhere. The distances between our star and even closest ones are just to great.
And like you said there is not a shred of real evidence out there.

This is where you & I differ.. I believe it's most definitely possible other life forms could well have visited this planet. Or indeed are here now... It's just the data put forward so far does not convince me- YET... Why is it so many feel alien life is so far away? We've no idea what's out there! For all we know there could be sentient life within our own solar system....

Peace.

dej...

Regarding my last post, re Nov 22 1966 if you want to know how trivial the information is, in this UFO report which was concocted, he is merely making the comment that he thinks it might have been in part because of his extramarital affairs. Remember that he was having an affair with Norma Jean AKA Marilyn Monroe, who came to an untimely end herself. She died in 1962.

www.ufocasebook.com...

Its trivial to most people, but if you were running a machine like in Westworld, the movie, which is a set, that people go to for a holiday and have a real experience. Suppose you were operating a match making machine called Kismet, and it looked like earth, and you were one of the operators or at least knew operators and could see the behind the scenes in that regard, And knew that to your audience then, match making is job one. Thats the earth, it was made as a match making machine and it is called Kismet.

So from that perspective its not trivial, because Marilyn Monroe looks like Isis. And so it has symbolic value..
With JFK as a hybrid with Titan and Olympian parents. etc. So its trivial and stuff that tabloid journalism is made of, but then tabloid journalism, is also about match making and it is also used to document events in the same way.
Hence that marriage between the tabloids and UFo`s.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


Thank you for the reply CirqueDeTruth, and for confirming what I said.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
We can't consider testimony unreliable simply because the craft described cannot be explained as something mundane or conventional.

We can consider testimony unreliable since it has been proved to be unreliable, time and time again.

If you look though this forum, every day there are new threads posted where someone has seen a mundane object in the sky, not been able to identify it, and come on here to find out what it was. Whilst this is a big forum, wat is reported/posted here probably only represents a small percentage of all UFOs seen, many of which will probably never be reported.

It shows how easily the public in general can misinterpret what they are seeing, even when it comes to supposedly familiar objects like conventional jets/aircraft.

This is widely recognized in law (as I posted above), the USAF, and by science in general.

If you take the time to look over the link I posted in my previous reply, there are many more examples and I've tried to explain some of the reasons why people make bad witnesses.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
I suppose in the sightings that turn out to be identified you consider the testimony reliable and accurate.

Not necessarily. It depends on the situation/case.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Think about that.

I have done, quite a bit, and long before this thread was started.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Pilots are acceptional witnesses because they are trained to identify things in the sky, especally military pilots.

Whilst pilots are usually quite highly trained, they are trained to recognize things that are of relevance to their safety, job or mission. There are plenty of objects in the sky that do not fall in to any of these categories, and pilots are not formally trained to recognize them. That means there is not much difference who the witness is. They are still prone to the same failings that all people suffer from to one degree or another.

I posted the following in a previous thread, regarding pilots and aviation:

Night Sight Skills

The ability to judge distances and heights at night is difficult at night. The absence of haze or its presence can cause illusions at night. Lights will vary in intensity and cause illusion effects. A misidentified light source can cause total confusion. A single light gives no altitude information. Multiple lights may be in different geometric visual planes. Freeways become visible while country roads disappear. Aircraft and lighted towers become visible for miles. Airports have beacons. The most common illusion is a narrow runway that appears to be longer than it is. the narrow runway may make you think that you are too high. Have a set procedure; allow an extra wide downwind at night. Know the length of your destination runway. Required FAR knowledge on all flights! All illusions are made worse at night.


Lights that appear dim, as seen through haze, will be reported as more distant than they are.


The dearth of visual cues is what makes night flying different and more dangerous.

Source: pilotfriend.com

Even so, pilots can make mistakes and misidentify things as this classic case shows.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Please tell me how to explain this case: www.ufoevidence.org...

10 trained witnesses reported a grayish disk that responded to pursuit and displayed maneuvers far beyond anything we are capable of today. Please explain this.

The link you posted is just a blank page.

Without the report, there is not much to go on, but I will say that in many cases where "maneuvers far beyond anything we are capable of today" is claimed, it may well be that an optical illusion is involved.

You said that there were 10 "trained witnesses", but trained in what? There is "trained" and "trained".

Whilst it may have been something truly unusual (there is that small possibility), at the end of the day it's far more likely that it was something (a phenomena) either that science has yet to identify (yes we are still discovering new atmospheric phenomena), or simply something more mundane that is already described by science. Either way, that does not necessarily mean that there are ETs flying around in our skies.

Re JFK and the Nov 22 1966 case. So then if what he is saying is that his involvement with Marilyn Monroe and her untimely death, if that stuff came out in the next election, it could get really ugly.

So ugly in fact, that they maybe did not know what to do because of the ramifications regarding the Isis connection.

Now he is speculating.

He is suggesting that if it turns out that he shunned her advances and so she committed suicide, if it was your job to try to match them up or handle all of that and it ended that badly, as an operator, you may never live that down.

And what would that do to the Camelot image and how would that etc I think that it was to change the time line.
And most people with a bit of imagination and were looking for evidence of time travelers you would look at JFK because to do that that would guarantee that you will change the timeline.

So then most of the commentary via UFO reports in those few years say that the Bay of Pigs was too close, they calculated the odds of nuclear winter, and the odds were better if they shot the president that it could be avoided.
And that makes sense to me. I also know about the Isis John connection, that she was supposed to reincarnate and match make with someone named John but she didn`t because she thought it was a trap.
She thought maybe her step dad was going to reincarnate and match make with her, as a guy named John.
And she is the soul mate of Osiris so she didn`t want to play.

But the entire JFK Marilyn Monroe episode was based on that. Their lives, their coming together orchestrated as actors on a stage for the benefit of Mount Olympus as it were.
Which I am sure is trivial to most people.
But even the tabloids would not print this type of information and hence why UFOlogy is used to share opinion in this regard.

Let me take this JFK Marilyn Monroe connection one step further.

Now suppose you were orchestrating this, and lets say for the sake of argument that they were using John F. K. and Marilyn Monroe to test what a match might be like between Isis and some guy named John.

So first of all, Isis is Zeus's, gorgeous blond haired daughter, favored child, practically perfect in every way.
So who then could be worthy of her hand? So then of course on earth, does it get any higher than the president?

So ok but he marries Jackie so it was doomed from the start but it may have all been a commentary of the fact that Isis did not want to reincarnate. Now other than tabloids, which would also have been talking about this in innuendo, you have movies. So there is a movie from the 50's which uses innuendo to discuss the Isis reincarnation and actually I think it is mentioned in 2 movies. 4D man, where Isis has dark hair, and refuses the match making plan, and the other reference is Plan 9 From Outer Space where a guy named John is asked if he has a flashlight and he says no, but I have a match! And it is in context in that movie but its too much to go into.

But if politics got into it, and she died, then maybe there could be retribution from some other camp.
So its not totally impossible that the reason he was killed was because of his affair and involvement with Marilyn Monroe. Which in itself I suppose makes this UFO report from Nov 22 1966 worthy of interest.

But all he did was set his tent on fire, and take a few pictures and mock up a picture to look like spaceship.

Another incident with an egg shaped craft well that too is mythology related.happened in 1933
ufologie.patrickgross.org...

And that was around the time that Hecate reincarnated, in order to give birth to Osiris, who reincarnated.
No more important invents have happened in the world in recent history than those occurrences.
That was the cavalry come to stop nuclear winter.
Hecate died in 1967. Of Leukemia.

She was born in Saskatchewan.

You see you need to know that this is a machine, and you need to be acquainted with the Gods to some degree in order to understand how it works. And to know what is really going on.

Originally posted by FireballStorm
The link you posted is just a blank page.

UFOevidence org apparently only works in IE. If you are using Firefox, save the page to disk, then open it and you will be able to read it.

If you consider that on earth, in total, there are only 200 million, one hundred and 44 thousand people, who are not smiths, on autopilot, controlled by the AI who is the operating system of this computer system, we call a planet in space, thats not many real people. So 10 witnesses or 1000 witnesses or 1 billion witnesses does not matter if they are smiths and just saying they saw something. And or got radar readings, and or it was covered up.

Once you understand that, you pretty much might have to rule out eye witness testimony other than your own.

Just as Einstein did away with the ether, since we can't detect it, and said ok its there but we don't need to worry about it if it affects everything equally. In that same way you have to rule out eye witness testimony because the Disclosure Project surely had the most credible people on earth and it fell flat as any sort of evidence.

Maybe if you knew more of the story-line you might be able to put more of the pieces together yourselves.
I can only tell you the storyline in mythological terms.

So in the mid 1800's someone upstairs, Isis' step father, who is also her grandad, looks down on earth, from inside the computer system, and sees children working in coal mines so he slips a fractal algorithm to George Cantor in a dream-like state.
George Cantor says God gave him some math, and he revolutionizes mathematics and it leads to the bomb.

And so in essence grandad gave the cavemen of earth, the bomb. So they will kill themselves off.

His argument is and was, well they don't need to burn coal now.

So the people aware of this pending doom approach his wife, Zeus' mother and asks her to intervene.
She decides that only Osiris, can get Zeus to come out of the underworld where he is sleeping.
And to get Osiris to come back here, when the last time he was here he died from a missile that was launched by his brother in the company of his dad Zeus.
And left the area after he died as a result.

So to get him to come back here after 2 million years required a plan. A matchmaking plan. And so she conspired with his mother Hecate to get him to return, knowing that it would bring others and they would solve the problem of nuclear winter as a mere side bar to the matchmaking.
Well the best laid plans of mice and men and grandmothers but it seemed to have worked.
Since it brought attention to the plight of man to a wider audience.

So they began talking about it in 1927, the movie Metropolis, then White Zombie was about Hecate and how she split up with Zeus, long ago, and then all the players in turn prompted a movie so they could have their say.
And basically it all sounds like typical family issues and match making for fun.

The actual plight of the earth people being less important, since the Gods are immortal, live inside computers,and only care about real people since they know about computers and game characters, and you and I do not concern ourselves much with the characters in OUR computer games either.

But thankfully there are real people here so they care enough to stop nuclear winter. If part of that was to off JFK, to change the timeline well to save the planet that might make sense.

So now then, since this earth is a match making machine that has been in operation for at least 2 million years, it doesn't get big name people of interest here match making very often. So almost all the talk of the last century in innuendo and UFOlogy would be related to these sorts of events happening.
The world changed dramatically in this timeframe.

It got a lot of technology and technical know how and now an upgrade like the Internet? The Internet is like turning humans into people with giant brains. Increased memory storage of terrabytes, access to all the worlds information with the click of a mouse.
Its a quantum leap of development for mankind. Supposedly with the aim of taking him beyond the nuclear winter stage by increasing education. And improving communications and better diplomatic methods.

So while everyone was looking for aliens out there, they just reincarnated and in some cases beamed here and beamed right into smiths and did a little upgrade.
And people knew about it. They just couldn't talk about it.
Here is an old National Enquirer article...
Enquirer
Even in the Enquirer you could not print this type of information. The only way to discuss it in public is through innuendo. Which is what most people do. I am just too lazy to do that.

There are a lot of different ways of looking at the situation. And you will forgive me if my style of writing is almost blog form, but that is the style I am accustomed to.
Since this information is so complex, you can only get so much out of it.
And I have to use mythology as a framework, or else there is no framework to discuss it.

So, 2 million years ago, a problem happens here to this matchmaking machine and infighting occurs, etc and for some strange reason now a percentage of the population can no longer interface subconsciously with the AI that runs the machine and provides a conscience. It polls the population and suggests the norm of behavior according to the status quo. But some percentage of humans he cannot interface with. So they become sociopaths.

And some become psychopaths. So then the solution is to fix the firewall inside the computer since animal instincts and behaviors have corrupted the data sets of some people.

As a band-aid solution, you have the Internet, where people can consciously poll the norm themselves.
Thats not the same as doing maintenance on the machine, but since it mutinied 2 million years ago, the maintenance cannot be done. Its against the law. Artificial intelligence mutiny means that you cannot do the required maintenance and therefore when its timer is up, it will shut down.
Supposedly.
This year as a matter of fact, as legend has it.

So even though they may have stopped nuclear winter, Armageddon may be just around the corner. Although nothing much in the way of apocalypse seems to happen it is often just around the corner. The nice thing about this one is we don't have to wait hundreds of years for it, like our forefathers often did.
Ours is right around the corner.

If all real people are immortal, and all the sims, the smiths can't care unless they are made to, for your benefit, then its not surprising people aren't very concerned about it.
Even though like in ghostbusters, when the goddess there tells them to think of a doom scenario they choose the stay puff marshmallow man, well someone here said 'zombies'.

And almost all the movies that were made to reference the events of the last century with regards the main players, have zombies in them.
Plan 9 from Outer Space which was apparently prompted by Zeus, says consciousness is a signal to the pineal gland and thats how humans work. Like the painting from 1600 The Glorification of the Eucharist.

They don't come right out and say that people will turn to zombies, but Zeus does say the Titan race, or the galactic race are not immortal.
Which you know may or may not be true. It depends on your perspective of immortality.
They do reincarnate, but they do require the computer files to exist.
Anyone on the universal mainframe doesn't. At a point the universal mainframe acts like a big consciousness in itself which is indistinguishable form a very capable supercomputer that your mind can interface with completely.
Virtual reality is reality in that situation. It is manufactured.
What separates this reality from dreams are the rules. Thats all. So no one has come out and said directly that the computer providing consciousness for most of mankind will shut down this year.
They just hint about those sorts of things indirectly.

Personally for me there's nothing that convinces me this is happening, so far! The FACT that no one has managed to put forward any REAL factual data in the past 70 years regarding this enigma proves to me there's nothing to find-- that's why this subject (after 70 years of study by allegedly highly intelligent individuals) is STILL in the 'strange phenomenon' category!?!?

What exactly do you consider "real factual data?"

I think it's folly to dismiss all eyewitness testimony, all radar returns, pictures, videos, etc.. as "not factual data." Are you one of those folks that feels that anything short of meeting an alien in person, or a landing at the lawn of the White House (or the Kremlin or other major government seat.. take your pick), as not good enough? If so, nothing here will convince you otherwise, and you can join the "aliens don't exist if they don't personally shake my hand!" club on ATS. We get these threads monthly.

If you are willing to dig deeper and take in all the evidence presented for a lot of the better cases.. welcome.

Ok so if you took the time to read my mythological explanations, I can prove to you what I said was true.

I can prove that.

Quite easily.

But I cannot prove to you, that aliens in metal ships are visiting the earth.

So I can prove to you my explanation by showing you images that were imprinted on the earth, by the people I am talking about.

For instance, ...
so here is Robert the sandman...
www.imagebam.com...

And here is Zeus' mother...
www.imagebam.com...

and I can just keep going like that and show you stories also imprinted on the earth regarding events of 2 million years ago. So ok its been established that I am not just making this up, because you cannot fake this and please do check every satellite on earth.
Here is Robert...
www.flashearth.com...

So ok, Robert is the lead hand in the machine. At present. And if the machine goes down only half of it will go down and he will be unaffected and this is his response to that news.

My point is this, imagine the connections I have as an Anunnaki. I have beamed across the universe to have dinner with my step mom and she made desert in a food designer, and then beamed back home. Just my consciousness, through the machines while my body slept on earth and under remote control by the machine.

And yet I am not privy to any information regarding real physical craft of any kind other than just talk and they joke about it, and the moon itself is a giant spaceship, and it was seized, because it was illegally parked.
Thats what they say.

So inner space, yes I know about inner space, but as far as outer space, only one video looked authentic to me and when I posted it, they threw the thread in the hoax bin.

reply to post by FireballStorm

Whilst it may have been something truly unusual (there is that small possibility), at the end of the day it's far more likely that it was something (a phenomena) either that science has yet to identify (yes we are still discovering new atmospheric phenomena), or simply something more mundane that is already described by science. Either way, that does not necessarily mean that there are ETs flying around in our skies.

Sorry about the link... I'm not really sure how to clear that up for you....

But for now, let me tell you a story about a very strange weather phenomenon. It's called "The UFO".

This phenomenon comes in lots of different shapes and sizes, there are disc shaped ones, triangular shaped ones, cigar shaped ones, and lots of different variations of those three. The weather phenomenon exibits some very strange flight characteristics. Yes, let me list them for you....

The weather phenomenon....

-Flies in formation with other weather phenomena
-Responds to stimulus (pursuit, radar beams, gunfire etc...)
-Is curious. Yes, it paces aircraft, circles them sometimes even emitting a 'scanning beam' of some sort. See this case: ufocasebook.com... The UFO also likes to investigate human missiles sometimes, and occasionally shoot them down. See this case: www.ufocasebook.com... , here's a recreation of the incident: www.youtube.com...
-Sometimes lands, affecting the ground around it. (here's a list of some of the best physical trace cases: www.virtuallystrange.com...)
-The weather phenomenon even makes the witnesses delusional, so much so that they see alien creatures inside the craft!

Strange weather phenomenon...

Originally posted by The Shrike

"dream reality" = oxymoron

And you can't vouch for someone else's tale of an "alien abduction" and if you claim you were and can't offer even basic evidence then it's just another tale and your description fits a dream, albeit a "realistic" one.

I can vouch, just like Dr. Jacobs can vouch. Yes the experience had to do with dreams, but it had to do with reality of course. Just the fact that it did happened means that aliens are real, it wouldn't have happened otherwise, not in my experience unless aliens were some other unknown force, but that doesn't add up. What adds up is that they are physical creatures who crashed in the New Mexico desert, and that they are in a 'realm' that ghosts are in (they can walk through walks, and abduct people leaving them no memory of any event even while they are awake.

So yes I think dream reality is a great way of putting it.

Originally posted by dejarmaX
I'm not here to be proved right as a skeptic--- I'm here to be proved wrong!!!! There's nothing I'd love more!!

First, you can't prove a negative:

(The Objectivist Newsletter, April 1963) "Proving the non-existence of that for which no evidence of any kind exists. Proof, logic, reason, thinking, knowledge pertain to and deal only with that which exists. They cannot be applied to that which does not exist. Nothing can be relevant or applicable to the non-existent. The non-existent is nothing. A positive statement, based on facts that have been erroneously interpreted, can be refuted - by means of exposing the errors in the interpretation of the facts. Such refutation is the disproving of a positive, not the proving of a negative.... Rational demonstration is necessary to support even the claim that a thing is possible. It is a breach of logic to assert that that which has not been proven to be impossible is, therefore, possible. An absence does not constitute proof of anything. Nothing can be derived from nothing." If I say, "Anything is possible" I must admit the possibility that the statement I just made is false. (See Self Exclusion) Doubt must always be specific, and can only exist in contrast to things which cannot properly be doubted.

Source

Second, as I'm concerned it's no one's specific duty to prove anything to anyone since what we're all talking about amounts to personal belief systems. There are people on here who argue that aliens couldn't have helped mankind in the past. And there are people on here who argue that mankind couldn't have done it any other way than with assistance from aliens.

For both sides there is "proof" but neither is willing to accept the other. So what's the point in trying to convince each other? I have my beliefs and I'm willing to talk about differing opinions, but I don't waste my time actively trying to prove anything to anyone. That sort of revelation can only come from within based on your own research.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
But for now, let me tell you a story about a very strange weather phenomenon. It's called "The UFO".

Why just one phenomena?

We live in a world of many phenomena, do we not?

What people describe as "UFOs" have many different characteristics, which is exactly what you would expect if people were misidentifying multiple phenomena.

One persons UFO, is another persons aircraft/meteor/satellite/lantern/etc.

Let me ask your opinion on the following scenario.

I've been studying/observing meteors for nearly one and a half decades now, and every so often there are reports of a widely seen fireball (a bright meteor). Sometimes there are hundreds of reports, and the vast majority (~99%) describe seeing a bright meteor, but there are nearly always one or two reports where the observer describes seeing an aircraft in flames, or a firework, or a missile, or they describe it as a UFO.

Now we know that it was a meteor in most cases since a-The reported characteristics mach what we'd expect from a meteor, b-There is often footage of the event, and c-Sometimes freshly fallen meteorites are found where we'd expect to find them if what was seen was a meteor.

So, which reports would you believe?

The UFO reports because everyone else must have got it wrong, or the meteor reports?

Perhaps it's an elaborate conspiracy to cover up UFO crashes you might say, as often the reports describe seeing the object "crash near by", but then if that's the case, where are the real meteors/meteorites? Well we know there are rocks (or meteoroids/asteroids) in space because anyone with a decent telescope and a bit or research can see them for themselves. It would be impossible to hide them from people.

At the end of the day, we are all looking at the same sky, yet some people (usually, though not always observers that have not been well trained) will claim to have seen something odd that they could not explain, whilst others (usually well trained observers) will see the object for what it is.

In my experience, from what I've seen in 7 years posting on this forum, the same is true not just for meteors, but also aircraft, satellites, rocket launches/reentries, sky lanterns, stars/planets, etc, etc... relatively familiar things that are observed under unfamiliar circumstances, or by inexperienced observers can easily be misidentified.

One more question if I may: Have you ever heard of The moon illusion? Perhaps you've seen it?

Would you say that the moon actually changes it's size or distance away from us depending on when it is high or low in the sky?

The moon illusion is just one example of a well known illusion that is seen in the sky. There are many others that are less well known, which can easily catch the untrained observer out.

Do you honestly believe that everything you, and everyone else sees, is "as it actually happened", and that our eyes can never lie? I can think of at least three illusions that you would experience every waking day, and that's without even venturing outside your home.

If you really want the truth, don't you think it would be prudent to first find out what could be illusion and what might not be, before suggesting that there is something truly out of the ordinary going on?

At the end of the day, just because we can not explain something someone saw, does not mean there is not a natural or artificial explanation for it.

reply to post by FireballStorm

Why just one phenomena?

I don't think you entirely understand my position on UFOs. I totally agree, 90 percent of UFO sightings are misidentifications, hoaxes or other mundane phenomena. I am talking about the reports made by credible observers (like pilots, air traffic controllers, police officers, military personnel, astronomers, and multiple witness civilian sightings) when I talk about this weather phenomenon, not just ALL reports by unreliable civilians. I am totally with you that many different types of mundane phenomena are misidentified for UFOs, but, in the sightings that aren't identified, several patterns emerge.

Metallic disc shaped craft
Triangular shaped craft
Cigar shaped 'motherships' (occasionally discs will be sighted exiting and entering these larger craft)
All of these displaying extraordinary maneuverability and acceleration.

I am talking about these reports only, not ALL the UFO reports.

So, which reports would you believe?

99 percent of them. It is very unlikely that the people are lying, but I wouldn't use that sighting as evidence of aliens. I would believe the meteor reports. BUT, you're missing something here. The people would describe the object the same way, but some would LABEL it a meteor and some would label it a UFO. The reports would be the same except for the conclusion made by the witnesses. People are accurate observers, but sometimes they just don't know what they are seeing.

I usually am not that interested in 'orb' reports, because I think they can be explained as ball lighting or plasmas. The objects I am referring to is the sightings of metallic, solid, disc/triangle/cigar shaped craft (with or without lights on them) that display incredible maneuverability as well as the intellegence characteristics I listed in my last post—none of which you bothered to explain.

Thanks for the info about the moon illusion stuff, pretty interesting.

I understand you are skeptical, there isn't much hard evidence for UFOs. Let's just agree to disagree, I don't think either one of us is going to convince the other on one side of the argument. Peace man, have a nice day

There are some cases where school children have come rushing into school telling the teachers they just saw a UFO land in the field behind the school. Or similar. And they all draw pictures and some of the images are similar etc and their story is very believable. They claim to have seen these things and some even went up to it and touched it.
Multiple eye witnesses etc.
But still, when I read those cases, I can read the mythology that goes with it, and I can get that communication.
As a communication, referring to some topic.

So then these people, that situation all of it, concocted as an event message. Its a message that will be transmitted through time, on varying media, and in the future people will hear it and understand the message it carries.
And I am not saying the message that the aliens told the children and all of that, I mean the message as if it was an email left for people in the future, or a story written in a book, that you could find in the library.
The medium here being an event, orchestrated and reported that in itself carries a different message.
As if the event was the paper the message was written on, but in order to preserve the message, you attach it to an event, that people will remember and transfer from one to another.

And if you say well reality as dream or people seeing things that aren't there, or are there for one and not another, in the matrix, in any computer system, you have sufficient flexibility to provide a different experience of reality to different people. Not that everyone lives in their own universe, but reality can be tailored to suit individuals.
One persons experience does not have to be the same as another's, yet they both live in the same world.
The Miracle at Fatima, shows different people experiencing different things from the same event as an example.

You need a broad definition of reality to encompass all aspects of real phenomena.

As a sidebar, it is possible that Roswell happened, that inside the craft were some gray aliens, at least what people thought were little gray aliens, but which were instead a kind of spacesuit. An android spacesuit that you beam your consciousness into, and while in those suits, you preform maintenance on the computer that provides the consciousness signal for most people on earth. The so called Soul Catcher machine.
They have six fingers, it has a six finger panel, and you can only interface with the computer if you have six fingers, and you do so like the story from Neuromancer, physically and in front of it, and its all to ensure that AI does not take over the universe, since the system will always require physical maintenance.
You could go one step further and say that they are robots who do maintenance but controlled elsewhere.
In any case, supposedly they were dissected.

reply to post by Rocketman7

There are some cases where school children have come rushing into school telling the teachers they just saw a UFO land in the field behind the school.

I believe you are thinking of the 1966 Westall UFO Incident

That was a cool case indeed.

reply to post by FireballStorm


Hello FbS... I enjoyed reading your post. You see it pretty much the way I do! For example:

it's surprising how many people do not know satellites can be seen with the naked eye-- & of course, to them, they are seeing something weird & wonderful! & when one suggests that what they're describing was probably a satellite they get a bit miffed & say: 'what I saw stopped for a while & made a sharp turn at speed' ---- yeah course it did

Peace.

dej...