Do you believe there is a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon?

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
The crazy lights in the sky are Demonic. Most unidentified aircraft are government secrets.

While I can see how a UFO experience could be described as demonic from a particular perspective, I think they're usually missing the crucial element of evil. Demons are generally defined as bad in some way. UFOs, though, are just there. They are not really actively trying to lead people to do bad things, or undermine morality in any specific way. A person having a UFO experience may start to question their faith or their understanding of cosmology as it relates to their particular religion, but it's not the UFO doing that. It's the person who had the experience. UFOs themselves are morally neutral.

If by supernatural you mean angels and demons from heaven and hell, then I would say no, as those are just stories man created to explain things beyond his understanding. But if you're asking are they beings that come from different dimensions or universes, or if they are non-flesh-and-blood beings, then yes I think it's very possible. Could very well be a mix of ET and ED, or maybe neither. I'm not as much concerned about exactly what they are, but more why they are here.

First of all I think it's important to be clear about what you mean by "supernatural". According to the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2012, the adjective has 4 different meanings:

su·per·nat·u·ral   [soo-per-nach-er-uhl, -nach-ruhl]
adjective

1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.
3. of a superlative degree; preternatural: a missile of supernatural speed.
4. of, pertaining to, or attributed to ghosts, goblins, or other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.


Granted there is likely some overlap between the definitions but which one are you asking about? In my opinion at least 2 of them do not reflect reality but are man-made concepts without such basis, like many other concepts.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter

They do exist but they are more than just simple life forms, they are connected with radiant white motherships. Also they have organisational qualities and have a laser beam facility, notably the red type.

Considering that plasma is the most common state of matter in the universe, there is a good chance that these plasma life forms are also the most common, likely to have developed advanced civilization, and possibly live in more than 3 dimensions.

We have no sold proof of their existence, because they are so far beyond our simple physical plane.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
Many people claim the "beings" see us as ants and are beyond our understanding, but I have never seen ants making any structures other than ant hills, but humans create things such automobiles, electronic technology, literature, and many other things that show we are more than able to communicate with other intelligent beings.

That just goes to show you how convinced we are that we have it all together and that we can understand whatever comes our way. There will always be the problem of "you don't know what you don't know." I'm a pretty smart guy, but even I have problems imagining things existing beyond three dimensions. What would something moving "backwards" in time look like? A weird blip that grows and then implodes? A blast of light from "nowhere?"

It's too easy for us to think of the UFOs/aliens as things that are like us, because we don't know anything different.

reply to post by davidwaters84


I apologize if you felt I went off track in your thread David.

I do think UFO's and ET are supernatural in the sense that we don't really know what they are or have the scientific knowledge to figure it out yet.

As to ET being demons. Who knows? It may very well be a new name for an ancient old phenomenon influenced/changed by our concepts of science and technology of the day. Indeed it may.

We have no way of knowing if an alien race has the advanced technology to learn to travel through space at an accelerated speed, or by bending space, simply because we haven't discovered it. So it could just as easily be actual extra-terrestrials or extra-dimensional.

reply to post by Blue Shift


I agree that we may be in over our heads concerning this phenomenon, but I believe we would have a much easier time comprehending, maybe not understanding, the phenomenon than a cat could comprehend taxes.

I am changing the word supernatural to paranormal.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by The Shrike

 

I find it funny that you say UFOs are real because you say you saw one, but you say all abduction accounts arise because of media hype or mental illness. So only things you see are real or capable of being real?

Your logic is faulty. In a way, yes, only things I see are real because I'm not a believer and I don't accept hearsay. Tales (NOT reports) of alien abductions are hearsay. You find evidence for them being real. You will fail 'cause all you are going to come up are tales, no evidence.

You can believe all you want, but then you're not dealing with reality.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
I am changing the word supernatural to paranormal.

I looked up the definition of "paranormal" and it seems a bit vague to me. How about we rephrase the question: "Do you believe there are profound limitations to what science can tell us about UFOs - no matter how much time, money, and talent is invested in the effort?"

Paranormal is a general term (coined ca. 1915–1920[1][2]) that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation"[3] or that indicates phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure.[1][4] Paranormal phenomena are distinct from certain hypothetical entities, such as dark matter and dark energy, only insofar as paranormal phenomena are inconsistent with the world as already understood through empirical observation coupled with scientific methodology.[5]

Paranormal in Wikipedia

Seeing as a hell of a lot of people view the UFO enigma as nuts and bolts "aliens" from an extraterrestrial source visiting this planet from a far off world place, I see nothing wrong with his question of a supernatural or manifestational origin points rather than the stereotypical little green men.

However there's one glaring issue that we have as it applies not just to UFOs, but all paranormal topics: they deal with human perception and experiential events. Until such time as we can adequately explain the nature of perception, consciousness, and "reality", we're in the shallow end of the pool.

We don't even know what we are yet, and we're trying to unlock mysteries of human experience. Seems a bit backwards.

This notion of "demons", "angels", and "aliens" are all terminology without solid definitions of exactly what they are. They're a bucket empty of facts but full of cultural flavors and filters. Which, by the way seems to be how the UFO phenomena works: through presentations or experiences of cultural filters and biases.

But we really don't have enough information there to make an adequate stand. Because in this field, effectively, people don't share anything. Researcher A won't share what he knows with researcher B because he fears he'll come to a different conclusion, negating his own.

Until all parties relinquish "beliefs" of what the UFO experience represents, and openly share data - Mr. OP, your question will never come close to being answered. There is clearly something going on. But what is it. How does one define crossover experiences and events? They do happen. Why.

Why are these experiences rooted in anti-structural and/or liminal states? As a friend of mine would say, "why isn't a productive question to ask - the question is what surrounds paranormal events." Keep plugging at that, and share your findings all around - and we might get somewhere.

But that won't happen. People are desperate for answers. There are always going to be those marginal morons to sell them the answer - and henceforth blind the blinded with more ideology based upon nothing more than desperate need to solve the problem.

You can't solve the problem without better questions. Right now, we cannot get at an answer. We need better questions.

Jeff

Originally posted by The Shrike
There isn't a "supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon", UFOs are supernatural, period. Consider the definition of "supernatural":

su·per·nat·u·ral /ˌAdjective: (of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

For someone with such a condescending attitude, your own logic is severely deficient. As TheFlash pointed out, your definition of "supernatural" is narrowly advantageous. A hypothetical alien spacecraft using technologies beyond our understanding may seem supernatural to us, but simply because we don't understand the scientific principles involved. Similarly, a 747 jet may seem like magic to an ancient Roman, but it's not, because he doesn't understand the scientific principles. Neither example is supernatural. Just because we don't understand the science, doesn't mean it is powered by divine or demonic supernatural magic.

Furthermore, you are misunderstanding the definition of UFO -- an unidentified flying object. You can say alien spacecraft are beyond our understanding, you could try to argue they are supernatural, but alien spacecraft is not synonymous with UFO.

Person X sees something unknown in the sky. They don't know what it is, and may never, ever know. Does that mean automatically what they saw was a supernatural, magical object? According to your definition, yes. According to reason and rationality, no.

They could have seen a meteor, a stealth jet, an optical illusion, maybe even an alien spacecraft using anti-gravity propulsion. None of those possible explanations for any unidentified object have any supernatural, magical explanation whatsoever. So again you're assertion is wrong.

I agree with 1-7 and add 8 as the gov't. There is just too many sighting from different people of all types of backgrounds to ignore. I will also offer this as well, the US military doesn't admit to anything to the public till it's replacement is online and in service.

Hello Everybody,

I think most of the problems with comunication here are based on differences in the definition of "supernatural", which has vague definition to start with.

I think the best way to go about this is to add your definition of supernatural to the post to explain your point of view.

In my opinion, I like the views of the Law of One, multidimensional beings....are they supernatural? depends on what you call "natural" if natural is a 15 dimensional universe, then these phenomenon would be natural to me. If we use our 3 dimensional reality as natural, then I have to say that the phenomenon is "supernatural".

Definition of supernatural: Not natural with our 3 dimensional science, so it is not explainable with it.

Cheers!

Originally posted by davidwaters84
I ask this because many UFO and abduction encounters seem to defy reality. Yes, I know any technology advanced enough would be hard to indistinguishable from magic, but do you really believe there is only a nut and bolt aspect the phenomenon? In my opinion there is as much of a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon as there is a physical one.

If you do believe the supernatural plays into the UFO phenomenon, why do you?

Not UFO encounters, but abduction. We all know something stranged happened (who know what even happened). It was the degree of strangeness that captivated people into thinking it was aliens.

I have been told these are physical beings. Yet it is clear they have a power the defy physics.

I have noticed a direct link between ghost activity and magic, so yes it appears to be true.

Originally posted by jritzmann
You can't solve the problem without better questions. Right now, we cannot get at an answer. We need better questions.

I'm constantly running into the problem of semantics when it comes to discussing the UFO phenomenon, which can expand or contract to include a number of different fringe topics. What happens is that I tend to drift over into the vague vocabulary used by spiritualists, and it doesn't really fit. Anyone studying the literature in any depth is going to notice that UFOs are in this weird lockstep with personal perception that includes a heavy component of cultural expectation. Think UFOs are demons? Okay, you got it. Think they're blond supermen? Here you go. Think they're little grey critters from Zeta Reticuli? Sure, why not?

They sometimes have the quality of "ghosts," but what does that mean, exactly? Energy echoes displaced in spacetime? Coherent non-corporeal personality constructs?

But those are just words. A lot of science involves finding words for things and naming them. And then you dig a little deeper and try to describe how something with this name relates to this other thing that has a different name. And if you discover something new or imagine something new, you give it a new name. Like "quark" or "boson."

UFOs are like a thing that we don't understand well enough to name.

reply to post by davidwaters84

Tha Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Enoch all describe beings with supernatural powers since the beings are supernatural. For example, those gigantic buildings were put on Titan, Enceladus and the other one, by a race of giant humanoids 6,000years ago before the Flood (during Noah's time) . Those giants were born on earth at first, through the copulation of the immortal Nephalim ( who are invisible and have no flesh &blood body) with mortal women . The resulting offspring had fantastic powers, and were giants that ruled the humans. But the flesh&blood giants had a finite lifespan-but still living hundreds or even thousands of years before dying of old age. These giants had supernatural, magical technology to build the ancient ruins discovered in South America and under the Caribbean Sea
as well as those gigantic structures on the moon , mars and the moons of the planet Saturn. The leader of the Nephalim, was punished by God for stealing secrets and powers from God's Heaven . Azezel was captured, and then bound ( supernatural chains" called Tartaros) and thrown into the Mediteranean Sea and a huge mountain thrown on top of him(which still fumes -now called Mt. Etna). All fallen angles , like Lucifer( now called the Devil) display bright light( remember Lucifer, before he turned against God, he was to bring the LIGHT of the knowledge of God to the Earth). All demons have no body - but have extraordinary power we humans have no idea of. In mormon teaching , no fallen angle is allowed to have a body. Only us humans are allowed to have a body. This is why Satan is mad,since he can't have a body like us. Jesus was invisible and had no body until he went into Mary and was born as a human with flesh and blood. The Mormons believe parts of the King James Bible has been tampered with and parts altered through the ages. So, I think that some demons , like Azezel have the power to go into woman and be born with a body- these are called humanoids or Aliens. In any case the humanoids are products of what looks like a Virgin Birth. I think birth without a human father is real . Could that be Cloning? God got angered and destroyed all the giants(humanoids) and the humans worshipping them with a universal flood . The Eternal God reduced the sun's binary companion to a brown dwarf , thus throwing the whole solar system into chaos -moons and all. The binary companion shed a hydrogen and oxygen cloud which fell on the earth-causing the Flood of Noah ( H2+O2=H2O ) . This is how the earth got its immense oceans of water and salt water - in 40 days, not 2 billion years-come on. The brown dwarf is now called the planet Saturn .
So, yes ufos are real , aliens do exist today. I think the devil and his demons are appearing like spacecraft(flying saucers) to get the humans afraid of an exterrestrial invasion. When Jesus returns soon, with an army of angels ( and all of these entities will be each lit with very bright light) it will look like an army of flying saucers to the deceived humans. The humans will fight Christ when he lands and go to war at Armageddon , but the Christ will zap them into dust in an instant. The people left over will then accept Jesus as their King. The people or humans will then be taught a new way to live and then be given these fantastic extraordinary powers .Talk about supernatural!

Originally posted by gringo74

Definition of supernatural: Not natural with our 3 dimensional science, so it is not explainable with it.

So it is better to talk about the Known and the Unknown. ETs are largely in the Unknown to most citizens but maybe not so Unknown to some in the worlds gevernments.

reply to post by davidwaters84


I think the answer to the question is that ETs have paranormal abilities. In the absence of governments telling us at least some of what they know, we are largely dependent on anecdotal accounts from those who have had ET contact, and that is not just those who believe they have been abducted. There are common elements in those accounts, for example there is often mention of telepathic communication with ETs. That is usually regarded as paranormal. So it comes down to whether you believe at least some of the accounts. There does seem to be a lot of misinformation and confusion being deliberately put out around the ET subject and also around mind control, which tells a story in itself. However, I do believe many of the anecdotal accounts, as I think I can tell when something is real or not, and also that the belief that ETs are highly developed in telepathic communications is congruent with my experience. It is though difficult to be 100% sure on that level.

I think a better description of anomalous factors in UFO and abduction reports would be "high strangeness" The words paranormal and supernatural have both been used to describe everything from exorcisms to so called thunderbird reports. There is definitely a running theme of high strangeness in UFO reports from the telepathic communication to their supposed ability to bend time and the human mind to their will. A lot of researchers shy away from this aspect of reports because they think it's unscientific but I disagree, any technology that is significantly beyond our reach, as technology used by aliens that have maybe been around 1000's to millions of years ahead of us would be, would look to us like magic, because we don't have the technical know how to understand it. Think about it, if you traveled back in time with an ipad and tried to show it to a "scientist" from the middle ages, they would have no clue of the underlying principles that made the device work, therefore they would denounce it as magic or the work of the devil or angels. In other words they would have to fall back on the only system that they have available to explain the unexplainable, religion or magic, and view it in those terms because they have no frame of reference to explain it. Kind of like how a lot of people today declare aliens to be demons, which to me seems completely and utterly ludicrous. When will the human race get past using outdated systems of belief to explain things that we don't yet understand.