Do you believe there is a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon?

reply to post by The Shrike

post by The Shrike
There is no room to discuss as only the mentally-challenged will even consider answering.

Geee thanks Shrike ...... Oh wait .. didn't you just answer
Welcome to the club

Do you believe there is a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon?

no

The supernatural explanation must be considered because UFOs demonstrate behaviors contrary to our physical laws.

reply to post by The Shrike


I never stated I knew what UFOs were, or who pilots them. I simply stated that most beliefs fall in between numbers 1 and 7; I left 8 open in case your personal theory was not there.

Maybe I am not reading your post right, but I do not understand you message. You say only the mentally challenged would post on this thread, yet you say it is only normal for people to be interested in the UFO phenomenon. So anyone who has a different belief other than government technology or aliens/ETs piloting UFOs are mentally challenged?

Could you please explain as to how my thread is not thought out?

"No one can even guess as there is not one iota of information to use as a guide. Additionally, to use "alien abductions" as any kind of reference also fails for there is no evidence for it, all you have are tales."

First, I never said aliens were responsible for abduction encounters. Second, there is more than enough information to make a guess as to what the UFO phenomenon is. I am not saying there is proof, but there is more information then a person knows what to do with concerning this phenomenon. The "tales" you speak of are by no means proof, and I agree there is very little evidence for physical abductions, but there are way to many people claiming such encounters to just say there is nothing to it other than mental illness.

Silliness abounds in your post.

reply to post by CardDown


Just because they behave that way doesn't automatically make UFOs supernatural. Perhaps they are more knowledgeable about our physical laws and have found solutions to the problems at hand?

Our understanding of physics may be totally wrong?

reply to post by Grifter81


Just as seeing something we do not understand does not automatically make it advanced extraterrestrial technology. Declare it unknown, study it. Deciding what it is or isn't just limits your investigation avenues.

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by The Shrike

 

post by The Shrike
There is no room to discuss as only the mentally-challenged will even consider answering.

Geee thanks Shrike ...... Oh wait .. didn't you just answer

Welcome to the club

There is, usually, an initial reply to point out the uselessness of the OP's waste of bandwidth, just like your reply thinking you have me over a barrel.

Originally posted by davidwaters84
reply to post by The Shrike

 

I never stated I knew what UFOs were, or who pilots them. I simply stated that most beliefs fall in between numbers 1 and 7; I left 8 open in case your personal theory was not there.

Maybe I am not reading your post right, but I do not understand you message. You say only the mentally challenged would post on this thread, yet you say it is only normal for people to be interested in the UFO phenomenon. So anyone who has a different belief other than government technology or aliens/ETs piloting UFOs are mentally challenged?

Could you please explain as to how my thread is not thought out?

"No one can even guess as there is not one iota of information to use as a guide. Additionally, to use "alien abductions" as any kind of reference also fails for there is no evidence for it, all you have are tales."

First, I never said aliens were responsible for abduction encounters. Second, there is more than enough information to make a guess as to what the UFO phenomenon is. I am not saying there is proof, but there is more information then a person knows what to do with concerning this phenomenon. The "tales" you speak of are by no means proof, and I agree there is very little evidence for physical abductions, but there are way to many people claiming such encounters to just say there is nothing to it other than mental illness.

Silliness abounds in your post.

Let's dissect your OP's opening remarks.

You start off by saying you believe. Beliefs are formed by the mind without the need for evidence. You'd be on safer ground by saying that you accept reports by witnesses to UFOs, even though what is seen is not necessarily a true UFO, the witness may not have enough data to come to conclusion so the person guesses it's a classic UFO. I am a multi-witness so I don't "believe" UFOs are real, I know they are. I have certainty and I'm safe.

You continue with your beliefs by stating "...most true UFOs are very advanced craft from various countries and governments." You have no evidence for this and so it's empty thinking. Then you quote theories as if they had anything to support them, they are just speculation/assumptions. Even a discussion of each theory results in more speculation/assumptions. Dead end.

And since I've shown that UFOs are, indeed, supernatural, beliefs serve no purpose with another dead end.

You state "I ask this because many UFO and abduction encounters seem to defy reality." Why do they defy reality? Because they are not real, regardless of how much some may want to convince others. Alien abductions are not based on reality, they're based on people being affected by media and the want to believe since they are not required to present any evidence. "Hey, I said so, isn't that enough?"

UFOs are real, they cannot be explained.

The crazy lights in the sky are Demonic. Most unidentified aircraft are government secrets. Want proof?
See the pretty government UFO's from the 50's

www.michaelsheiser.com...

www.facadeblog.com...

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Hi greeneyedleo. To the first, I disagree. Alien abduction follows no known mental illness as yet relates to axises 1 or 2. They also show no forms of psychosis typically. Then, with what known cases that there are, only a small percentage of that particular group show atypical signs of it.

To your second, I agree with you. People make up some very strange tales in order to feel whatever it is they think is lacking.Though not all fall into this category, I don't think that the rest can be explained away as mental illness.

reply to post by The Shrike


I find it funny that you say UFOs are real because you say you saw one, but you say all abduction accounts arise because of media hype or mental illness. So only things you see are real or capable of being real?

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Hi greeneyedleo. To the first, I disagree. Alien abduction follows no known mental illness as yet relates to axises 1 or 2. They also show no forms of psychosis typically. Then, with what known cases that there are, only a small percentage of that particular group show atypical signs of it.

sure there are....Schizophrenia or a bunch of other mental disorders and unless one has been treated for it, they will either not be aware they suffer from it or are in denial due to not being on meds to help them think logically and clearly.

two major symptoms:

•Strongly held beliefs that are not based in reality (delusions)

•Hearing or seeing things that are not there (hallucinations)

•False believes that others are trying to harm you or your loved ones.

and other disorders such as schizophreniform disorder, delusional disorder, shared psychotic disorder, substance-induced psychotic disorder, and psychotic disorder due to a medical condition....

this is just my opinion...i believe it is a contributing factor to alleged abductions and visitations...as there is no proof these abductions happen, they are just stories told by the alleged victims.

sure there are....Schizophrenia or a bunch of other mental disorders and unless one has been treated for it, they will either not be aware they suffer from it or are in denial due to not being on meds to help them think logically and clearly.

two major symptoms:

•Strongly held beliefs that are not based in reality (delusions)

•Hearing or seeing things that are not there (hallucinations)

•False believes that others are trying to harm you or your loved ones.

and other disorders such as schizophreniform disorder, delusional disorder, shared psychotic disorder, substance-induced psychotic disorder, and psychotic disorder due to a medical condition....

this is just my opinion...i believe it is a contributing factor to alleged abductions and visitations...as there is no proof these abductions happen, they are just stories told by the alleged victims.

edit on March 26th 2012 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

I feel we are crossing into dangerous territory here (the phenomenon that is). Never, has any qualified psychologist said that people who believe they are abducted by aliens is schizophrenic. Not that many abduction victims don't hope that this is so. It's much easier to accept a treatable mental disorder as to what's going on than the idea that they may be having a genuine experience. When an individual is treated with an anti-psychotic when not actually being so - serious side effects can occur. (such as a real psychotic event or suicidal ideation). So I think it's rather important not to add to this idea that all of these people are somehow "ill". It only serves to create further feelings of alienation and fear, not to mention increased discrimination from the "healthy" people. I feel we have to be careful with psychology and "mental health" as it garners more and more labels to slap individuals with to fit into their neatly defined notions of what is mental health and what is mental illness. I suppose that this topic is big enough to fit into it's own thread.

Abduction and Fantasy Proneness

Examination of Abductions

As to my personal opinion, I think that fabrication online is a huge problem. Therefore, I generally don't look at cases on sites like this to make an informed decision as to what this phenomenon might be. So in this context, I do agree that we may be dealing with people who are playing a game with others, so to speak. However, for those people who come forward and seek out a mental health provider in hopes of being mentally ill so they can be treated....

Well, it's of my opinion that this shows an incredible foresight and questioning for someone who is supposedly schizophrenic or delusional. Schizophrenics are extremely divorced from reality and many cannot function in society at any level. They must either be institutionalized or watched by a nurse or family members at all times. They are prone to violence towards others and themselves. They hear voices and see visions while other people are present. Not just in their dreams, or recalled in a dream! This in no way resembles any alien abduction that has been professionally investigated and reviewed by a mental health professional.

I'm sure you have heard this all before. It's just my opinion. I don't think that we can safely slap a mental disorder on people for the sake of explaining it away. If we do, the next people to go would be anyone who dared to believe in a religion or God. Or is that an acceptable fairytale of delusion because so many believe it? Do you see what I mean? I think there are just inherent dangers labeling people crazy simply because they are a minority to the majority who don't have them.

However, I do advocate ruling out mental or medical disorders before anything else with abduction experiences. There are certain symptoms that can mimic alien abduction. Therefore, for the safety of the individual - it should be encouraged that they seek out medical help first. But if we start socially accepting that people who believe they were abducted by aliens are automatically mentally ill, we run the risk of no one coming forward for fear of being stigmatized. (Not that this doesn't happen already.) Then those who do, say have a brain tumor or are vitamin deficient - might never get the help they needed because they thought they were being abducted when in fact they were having delusions for a very real medical condition.

reply to post by davidwaters84

Do you believe there is a supernatural component to the UFO phenomenon?

Ufos have something to do with the paranormal (or are wholly paranormal) and I became precognitive in my dreams after my ufo experiences.

Yes.At least some of them are probably in league with antichrist.Both have yet to go public as yet but shoukd be on the world stage soon.I would'nt trust them.

I never intended to make this a thread one debating if people who have had abduction encounters are mentally ill or not; as I do believe the majority of abduction cases are not actually abductions. However, I do believe a few encounters are with other beings, but this is not the point.

I just wanted to know if anyone felt there was a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon. Personally I believe there is; though I do not know if the beings themselves are supernatural in nature or if they just use a combination of the supernatural and technology. What the phenomenon truly is I do not know, but I believe it is much more than nut and bolt craft.

A good review of all the available evidence makes it difficult to definitely say that it's all a result of outer space critters pretty much the same as us, flying around ordinary, nuts-and-bolts type craft. As for the "supernatural" aspect, that's kind of a funny word. After all, if there are really multiple or alternate dimensions of reality that we can't see, it's still "natural," even though we aren't equipped to make sense of it.

That seems to be the problem with real UFOs. Our limited perceptions and ability to understand. It's like trying to get your cat to understand income taxes. It's not that income taxes don't exist, but it's just beyond Kitty's ability to comprehend. We could be in the same kind of position when it comes to UFOs.

Originally posted by gortex
In my view #1 , nuts and bolts flown by flesh and blood.

My biggest problem with this particular view is that no matter how advanced a machine might be, it's still going to fail at some point, and often the more complicated a machine is, the more things can go wrong with it. So there will be crashes and wreckage and bodies.

Of course, the argument is that, yes, they do crash and Roswell is "proof" of that. But Roswell isn't even good proof of itself. I'm saying that if these things are flying around a lot, they're going to likely crash where a lot of people will see them and there will be no chance for a cover-up. That hasn't happened. It hasn't.

The other problem I have with the nuts-and-bolts thing is, where the hell do they all go? Flying saucer flies by, zooms off over the hill, and is never seen again. Flying a machine around in the sky takes resources to operate. Fuel, repair points, hangars, etc. Where are they? The Moon? Then we'd see a constant freeway of UFOs traveling from here to the Moon. And once you start to say, "They have hidden bases," or "They move at warp speed," then you might as well just say that they're top secret government craft or multi-dimensional, because it's the same explanation at work.

And it still doesn't explain all the weird time shifts and reality distortions described in a lot of the more ignored (because they're too crazy) reports.

reply to post by Blue Shift


The whole cat understanding taxes has a small point, but we do not see cats creating things that humans have. Cats don't read and write books, or show any interest in wanting to learn things out of their natural instincts. Humans however show strong potential in wanting to learn new things and ideas. Many people claim the "beings" see us as ants and are beyond our understanding, but I have never seen ants making any structures other than ant hills, but humans create things such automobiles, electronic technology, literature, and many other things that show we are more than able to communicate with other intelligent beings.

You are probably right, supernatural is not the right word to be using, but I know no other word that would be as acceptable while at the same time being a word everyone has a broad understanding of. Maybe the words metaphysical, mystic, or paranormal would be better?