Please tell what you see John Kerry doing for you.

Originally posted by goregrinder
I would hardly call our incursion into the Mid-east a step toward World War III.

All things begin with the slightest push. Like the taking of sides of countries because of the war. Like the childish name calling of countries as "evil".

Everything has repercusions like the waves of a stone thrown into a pond. If you are not smart enough to realize this then you should not be in office.

I don't understand how Putin has contained himself from turning Chechnya into no man's land. The road to defeating terror will be won, but at what lengths, i have no idea. Back toward the topic, there are obviously several factors to the war on terror that Bush in undoubtedly bumbling, but i don't understand how those who are going to vote for Kerry see him doing any better.

Personally, i would love to see America revert back to our glory days of isolationism.

All things begin with the slightest push.

This is true, but the final push that ignites the next great war will not come from the mid-east. Think of a certain peodaphilliac dictator, bad glasses, even worse hair.

Originally posted by goregrinder
there are obviously several factors to the war on terror that Bush in undoubtedly bumbling, but i don't understand how those who are going to vote for Kerry see him doing any better.

It is not that I believe he would do better, but I can hope. Give him the benefit of a doubt.

Personally, i would love to see America revert back to our glory days of isolationism.

I whole heartedly agree with you.

In case you missed it just made public and now on ATSNN:

John Kerry Outlines Terror Plan

I do not know what to believe. I have heard both sides of the argument, but I am still undecided. Thanks all for giving me some new insights to dig a little deeper to see who I will vote for... STILL so far, I am voting for Nader. Why?

Nader does not have a snowball's chance in hell to make it, and since he is obviously going to lose, I cannot be blamed for voting for the wrong guy.

It's funny that you mention Ralph Nader, because he's going to be on Coast to Coast AM with Georg Norry tonight (not a plug). The thing about Nader is; he's an old hippie. Has alot of good points, but doesn't have any real "leadership" qualities.

Originally posted by albn
I do not know what to believe. I have heard both sides of the argument, but I am still undecided.

Before you (gulp) vote Nader, consider this:

Aside from all the political mudslinging, lies about military records, and all that, ask yourself where this country is right now in terms of world opinion. You don't need to look far to find that, regardless of what this president tells you, our country's government is reviled by most of the world in ways it has never been before. Other cultures and nations are watching this election closely, because they overwhelmingly support a change in leadership for this country.

After 9/11, the outpouring of support shown to the United States was moving and inspiring. We had months of foriegn leaders and ambassadors wishing us well and offering support for the war against terror and specifically against the Taliban. In fact, most of the world sympathized with the American people and showed their support.

Ask yourself, where has that support gone? It has been squandered in three short years. Who do you figure is responsible for that? Aside from partisanship, don't you think that a change is warranted in light of how angry the world is with us? What better way to fight terror than with a united front, all nations working together with one another towards this common goal? Do you really think George Bush is the one to do this?

John Kerry is by no means the perfect candidate, but he would make a much better president. The first step in rebuilding our alliances with other countries is to eliminate that which makes them despise us, namely the policies and aloof arrogance of George W. Bush.

Voting for Nader is basically like not voting at all. I implore you to truly examine the importance of this election: it may be the most important presidential race of our lives, and is one of the most important in history. Vote for whomever you find the least repugnant but please don't waste your vote, since it's really impossible for democracy to work if the people do not make themselves heard.

Its actually pretty simple. If JK wins, we are trading one schmuck for another. We need a Kennedy damn it! Well, maybe not any Kennedy, maybe we could clone JFK and the whole problem would be solved. Oh, I forgot that GB made that impossible.

KF

[edit on 9/24/04 by Kidfinger]

Well, if Nader gets elected, we can roll some joints and drink beer in his trailer. That sounds good to me.

Seriously, there are several things that bother me in this election. Before I start laying my points out, I am by no means a political expert, so please excuse my stupidity.

1. Bush seems to not really care what other countries think, and we are losing a lot of allies. It seems to me if more countries hate you, does that mean more attacks could be on the way?

2. I do not really care about what they did in the wars the fought in. I care about what they plan to do next for us. We have bigger threats, and it is not who threw away some medals or went AWOL. Okay, so what? What do you plan to do about the mess we have on our hands? The plans each candidate has seems alright, but as we all know, promises and what is delivered are two different things, so there is a lot of reading between the lines and thinking... 'Okay, they say they are going to do this, but what is most likely going to be delivered?'

3. The plan outlined by Kerry involving healthcare seems very expensive. How are we going to fight this expensive war on terror and pay for an almost $1 trillion health plan? That is over the next decade, so the point is probably something I should not really worry about.

4. Creating jobs. I did not know presidents could create jobs. I thought it was up to us to do that. What really concerns me is outsourcing. With companies wanting to save a dollar, al lot of good paying jobs are moving overseas. Is this the fault of government or us due to the lack of a good education? That would require a lot of research on my part.

5. I want less hype and give me the bottom line on what each one of you will do for our country. So I have been looking around seeing each point on what each candidate plans to do, but again, it is hard to distinguish what they say and what they really plan to do.

and it goes on and on. Oh my head hurts.

Originally posted by albn
1. Bush seems to not really care what other countries think, and we are losing a lot of allies. It seems to me if more countries hate you, does that mean more attacks could be on the way?

Absolutely. And also, the less friendly countries we have getting our back, the less we can trust to help us make the threat of terrorism smaller.

2. ...'Okay, they say they are going to do this, but what is most likely going to be delivered?'

No politician can be trusted to deliver on campaign promises. That said, we have Bush's record on keeping HIS campaign promises, and if you look at it, he's failed miserably. Time to try someone else.

3. The plan outlined by Kerry involving healthcare seems very expensive. How are we going to fight this expensive war on terror and pay for an almost $1 trillion health plan? That is over the next decade, so the point is probably something I should not really worry about.

Actually, you SHOULD worry about it. No question that health care reform is super expensive. You can't have it both ways, as you say, so Kerry plans to roll back tax cuts for the rich that Bush has pushed through congress for four years to pay for all sorts of stuff, including paying down the record deficit that this president has built up with irresponsible tax cuts (during a WAR) pandering to his rich corporate constituents.

If we want certain things in this country, like reformed health care, solvent social security, a stronger military, etc, we need to sacrifice a bit. Passing tax cuts is the opposite way to go, don't you think?

(BTW, a decade isn't that long to spend that much money. We definitely need to ask these kinds of questions and I'm glad that you are.)

4. Creating jobs. I did not know presidents could create jobs. I thought it was up to us to do that.

It is impossible for "us" to create jobs in an economy such as the one presented to us for four years. A business cannot hire more employees if there is no money to do so. They don't get the money to hire folks if nobody buys what they are selling. Nobody buys what they are selling because even though many still have jobs, wages are down. Here's a couple reasons you can blame the president for the current lack of job growth:

1. There are currently around 52 million americans without health insurance. when they get sick, they spend hundreds of dollars just to see a doctor, and that money cannot be spent buying American-made goods. Bush has made no real progress in helping the uninsured in this country (there were fewer than 30 million uninsured when he took office) and so the economy has become stagnant.

2. Tax cuts have allowed the wealthy to get wealthier. The conservative belief (disproved by Reagan's economic effectiveness) is that the wealthy will use their tax break to hire more people. Has this happened yet? No. The main tax burden falls on the middle class, thus leaving them with less money to buy stuff (see above)

3. Quality of life in this country affects the ability of people to work. Businesses lose billions of dollars a year because of employee illnesses, lack of productivity, and lack of access to education. Massive deficits such as the one that Bush has told us not to worry about make it impossible to pay for federal programs that pay for things to improve education, health and morale. Thus, the economy stumbles, and less jobs are created.

Will Kerry do better? Almost certainly. As soon as the rich start getting taxed more they'll have to think of better ways to make money, like improving their businesses.

What really concerns me is outsourcing. With companies wanting to save a dollar, al lot of good paying jobs are moving overseas. Is this the fault of government or us due to the lack of a good education? That would require a lot of research on my part.

It is the fault of a government that allows corporations to turn a larger profit by moving overseas. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the Bush administration doesn't support outsourcing; anything that makes corporations more profitable is good stuff for him. Despite many opportunities with tax legislation, Bush and the republicans have left huge loopholes in the Tax code that make it more profitable for companies to do business overseas. You can't fault the corporations for this; they have to stay profitable and compete. No, this one is definitely the president's fault.

FYI, Kerry has promised to close these loopholes, an interesting challenge with this congress...

5. I want less hype and give me the bottom line on what each one of you will do for our country. So I have been looking around seeing each point on what each candidate plans to do, but again, it is hard to distinguish what they say and what they really plan to do.

The information is out there, but be sure to note where you're getting it from. Both candidates' websites are pretty good about laying out policy, but that's a pretty bad place to go for non partisan info. I find the most informative stuff comes from people who have nothing to gain or lose, like university studies and stuff like that. Forums like this are sometimes valuable, but many good points are distorted by folks who don't really know what they're talking about. (And they will accuse me as such. But you can trust me:@@

The bottom line? It's great that (at least for now) we can still decide that for ourselves.

Okay, so how do you find voting and other records on candidates? That would be a nice map on what they really believe in. In fact, a year or so ago, I read a book called "Pipe Dreams" ( www.amazon.com... ) and showed how Bush was all for protecting big business interests.

Thanks for the info. Now I can go look some stuff up.

Maybe Kerry stops the madness?

Originally posted by masterp
Maybe Kerry stops the madness?

That would be nice, but do you honestly believe he's capable, in one stroke, of dissapating the crisis that we are currently staring in the face? I sure as hell don't. He has just as good of a shot as Bush does, he will just go about it in a more round-about diplomatic prosess.