Who Is George Zimmerman and What About the Police?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by ker2010

 

Actually he wasnt going to his fathers.His father did not live in that community.His fathers fiancee lived there and she was unaware he was in the neighborhood. Which is why she didn't realize he was missing.So we havnt heard the whole story and there are lots of rumors running around.

Is this direct information?

Do you have a link?

Go back to the reports before the media hype you see diffrent testimonies from witnesses.Heres another contradictory one. In this one the fiancee claimed he was heading home then stated he was on the porch. This is why her statements were inconsistant i dont think she was home at the time.If she was home and he didnt return from the store i think she would have called the police.And im really not sure what the front porch has to do with anything unless he didnt have a key and was waiting for her to return that would explain him walking in the rain to the store.

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami. "He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him." Read more: www.myfoxorlando.com...

The eye witness to the fight stated this:

The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John. John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot. "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." Read more: www.myfoxorlando.com...

On Friday night, Zimmerman attorney Craig Sonner appeared on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360” and said he client sustained a broken nose and a head laceration on the night of the incident. “His nose was broken, he sustained injury to his nose and on the back of his head he sustained a cut that was serious enough that probably should have had stitches…it was an injury that was done by Trayvon Martin,” Sonner said.

This makes it easier for his lawyer to claim self defense if Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts.This shows obviously he didnt just walk up and shoot Treyvon they fought.In fact i bet they fought over the gun but im speculating.My other huge question is where is Treyvons phone the police claim they dont have it the family says they dont have it.This leads to 2 possibilities Either Treyvon didnt have the phone on his person and the conversation with his girlfriend didnt occur but instead she talked to whoever had the phone. Or the police are so inept that they had an unidentified man and didnt bother to look at his phone to call people to identify him.Then was so inept they lost the phone.I know if his girlfriend had talked to him as she claimed she would have been ringing that phone off the hook.This is odd at the very least.

Originally posted by AmericanPitBull

Do some folks live in an alternate universe?

It would seem so.

Its a tragedy all the way around. For both families. It should not have happened.

Aggressing - tracking someone is not defending - - especially after you called it in and police were on their way. If you listen to the call to the dispatcher - - not only did the dispatcher say not to follow - - he tried to get Zimmerman to stay at the mail boxes where the police could meet him. Instead he pursued.

He said he moved to Florida because his God Father opened a million dollar business. Could he be protected and handled with "kid gloves" because of connections? Definitely a possibility.

Letter of the Law is going to be interesting in this case.

After chasing/catching (speculative) Tayvon - - did Tayvon then become the aggressor - - or is he defending himself?

Originally posted by dragonridr
This is odd at the very least.

Everything is odd about this case.

If someone is yelling Help! - - why would you tell them to stop? Does that sound strange to anyone else?

The only real fact is the 911 call. We know Zimmerman is tracking and pursuing a black male.

If someone is pursuing you - you notice he has a gun - - he does not identify himself as a law officer and show you a badge - - - you are the one in the defense position. Even if you attack him at some point - - you are still in the defense position.

Zimmerman is never in the defense position - - because of his own actions.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by WP4YT

 

Originally posted by WP4YT
Keep in mind this was a gated community, with very few-non whites.

You are wrong. Whites are a minority at Twin Lakes.

Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian.

Source

In this case, he was suspicious because he was someone that looked like he didn't belong there...

In a community where 20% of the people are black, how did Trayvon look "like he didn't belong there"?

in the middle of the night...

The 911 call was received at 7 PM.

walking around like a criminal would.

And how does a criminal walk around?

Are these the things you tell yourself to keep a tight hold on your position? Does it matter that what you're saying isn't at all true?

23 + 20 + 5 = 48, whites are 49... Did you do the math before posting?


U

Originally posted by JayFlores
The fact of the matter is that Zimmerman disregarded the dispatcher when she told him not to follow Mr. Martin. He decided to play hero or compensate for his insecurities by harassing a young man. He confronted him, got his ass kicked and instead of trying to get away, he shot him. Self defense? Maybe.
I carry a gun at ALL times. I have been in confrontations that have led to physical violence. NOT ONCE have I felt the need to unholster my weapon. I do not understand why Mr. Zimmerman felt the need to shoot a young man who was unarmed and was doing nothing other than defending himself with his hands. There could have been a much different outcome had Zimmerman listened to the dispatcher or backed off before it became physical. It is a sad situation for everyone involved that didnt have to end the way it did.

I have called the police 4 times in the past when spotting actual crimes.. They never once got there in time with their 10-15 minute response time. I can see why he wanted to follow him. The facts coming out are looking more and more like self defense sorry. I am going by facts, not emotion. And I wish they would stop showing that stupid picture of a little kid and show some current ones, what was he, 6'3 170lbs?


U

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Charmed707

 

With my attitude huh? You mean non-racist? Am I a traitor to my race now? Do you have a problem with the sourced information I have presented or does it just leave a bad taste in your mouth that a white woman is just not okay with a young black kid's slaying? I've given sources for my information, something the threads more to your taste have not.

What about asians being slayed, whites being slayed etc- thousands of them every year, guess which race commits most of those murders..................

Originally posted by USarmyFL
The facts coming out are looking more and more like self defense sorry.

Zimmerman created the situation. He escalated the situation.

He put Tayvon in the defense position.

Seems it is a very good thing you can not lynch a dead man or this young man with a hole in his chest would be dangling from ATS's virtual Hangin' Tree. I guess because he is black screws any self defense he had from the guy with a gun following him? Why is it so difficult to understand you can't be standing your ground and following someone at the same time? Why is it so over some heads that someone unidentified following you puts you in a defensive position automatically? What can't some understand that being confronted by an armed unidentified man is a life or death situation for the unarmed? Oh yeah he was black and late for school too often."Them wild black bucks can open up a can of whoop ass on ya" is an accurate paraphrase of a lot of the posts excusing Zimmerman's actions. So how can you aggressively follow someone and still stand your ground?

reply to post by blueorder


The thing about this case, the killer was on scene and doesn't deny that he shot Trayvon Martin. He is claiming self defense. There are clear indications on why self defense, specifically Stand Your Ground, MAY not be applicable. The outrage comes in how the police handled the scene, witnesses and the killer in not doing everything they are required to do at a scene where someone has been killed and also that Zimmerman apparently racially profiled a kid for walking in a neighborhood he belonged in.

Originally posted by AmericanPitBull
Seems it is a very good thing you can not lynch a dead man

or this young man with a hole in his chest would be dangling from ATS's virtual Hangin' Tree.

It is SHOCKING!

Really SHOCKING - - some of the things being said.

This is what happens when someone tries to be a vigilante.

"wannabe's" - - not trained - - not authorized.

Create a situation that goes out of control - - someone gets hurt or in this case Dead.

"Standing Your Ground" is about protecting yourself/family/property. That is not the case here.

Another question I have. Why was Martin laying face down and why is there no blood on Zimmerman...other than his own? How far away was Zimmerman when he shot Martin?

I just came across this on Wikipedia

Previous incidents with racial issues
News reports noted that the police department of the city of Sanford has been confronted with allegations of racial prejudice before.[78] The police chief in 2011, Brian Tooley, was forced from office after the son of a lieutenant was caught on camera beating up an unsuspecting homeless black man, but whom the department declined to prosecute. After the footage went viral on YouTube, the perpetrator, Justin Collison, was arrested.[78][79][80] The officer in charge of that case was also the one in charge of the Trayvon Martin shooting scene.[42] In 2005, two parking lot security guards, one the son of a Sanford police department veteran and the other a volunteer for the department, shot a black teen, Travares McGill, in the back, killing him. They claimed self-defense, and the case was dismissed in court.[78][81]

reply to post by Kali74


Yes Kali

I was hearing about this incident on Talk Radio before it was on ATS.

Several callers from the area called in with info about other incidences. They said there were many more incidences like this. That this particular area is very Republican and the police dept is either bias or completely complacent.

The parents didn't even know anything happened until they called the police because he was missing. The police never even knocked on doors in the area to see if anyone knew who he was.

I feel like I'm back in the 50s.

reply to post by Kali74


There's too much weirdness about the whole thing to believe Zimmerman's story. For example, How does an armed man who has wanted to be a cop all his life, trained at a civilian cop academy, carries a cop's gun, has successfully performed citizen's arrests and spends his time thinking about all this... manage to get surprised and brought down and beat up by a skinny young kid who only wants to make it through the night alive?

I don't think we'll know the answers to these questions for a while, if ever. They'll test Trayvon's clothes and if there's no powder on them, that means the shot was from some distance, not while in a struggle... We may find out some of these things along the way. I hope so.

.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yep and it's too late to do any testing on Zimmerman's clothes...to see if they had Martin's blood on them, if not the absence would have been very telling.

Why has no one addressed how Martin got behind Zimmerman? Teleportation? Invisibility? Why is this discrepancy being overlooked??? Zimmerman claims to have lost sight of Martin and then got out his car to look. He did not see him, so where was Martin and how did he sneak up on Zimmerman??? Is Martin a ninja?

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
Why has no one addressed how Martin got behind Zimmerman? Teleportation? Invisibility? Why is this discrepancy being overlooked??? Zimmerman claims to have lost sight of Martin and then got out his car to look. He did not see him, so where was Martin and how did he sneak up on Zimmerman??? Is Martin a ninja?

Martin would have been "home" - - alive and safe - - if Zimmerman had not pursued him and waited for the police as the dispatcher asked him to do.

Martin reacted out of fear and need to defend himself.

Beyond that - - - I don't care. Not that I don't care - - but it is not something I will discuss - - because it doesn't matter.

A kid is dead.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
Why has no one addressed how Martin got behind Zimmerman? Teleportation? Invisibility? Why is this discrepancy being overlooked??? Zimmerman claims to have lost sight of Martin and then got out his car to look. He did not see him, so where was Martin and how did he sneak up on Zimmerman??? Is Martin a ninja?

As mentioned it does not matter as Zimmerman instigated the pursuit action at that point everything treyvon may have done can be construed as a stand your ground defense including a self defense attack on Zimmerman. However Zimmerman instigated an aggressive "tail" which treyvon's girlfriend confirms. At the point he felt threatened by Zimmerman he had the high ground in a "stand your ground" action that he brought skittles to a gun fight is sad irony. So while you wonder how the details of their alleged scuffle are overlooked you do not realize that since Zimmerman was following Treyvon he was the threatening party and has no ground on which to stand.

reply to post by Kali74


OK so as far as I've read here on Ats and watched on YouTube about this case i think is really complicated;

so first of all Zimmerman calls 911 and reports seeing a suspicious boy wandering around
then he follows Martin.
Then something that's unclear happens and Martin ends up shot and dead.
apparently racism is involved but it doesn't make sense, why would he call the police if his intentions were to kill Martin anyway? why would he even give this kid time to walk away or scream for help?
then again how did Zimmerman end up shooting Martin on the chest if he was actually chasing him? he must've been facing him or really up- close to Zimmerman for this to happen unless Zimmerman is really good at aiming a gun and just shot Martin from a far.... so there must've been a confrontation of some sort. Some say that Martin allegedly attacked Zimmerman and beat him up leading Zimmerman to shoot him. So a lot of things are sill unclear about this event and we do not have enough info to make conclusions.

While i will not rush to take sides (i wasn't there and didn't see what happened) I do think this was a really unfortunate incident and more likely it could have been a misunderstanding from both parts (Zimmerman thinking Martin represented any threat to him or the community OR Martin thinking Zimmerman represented a threat to him causing a confrontation between the two.) which unfortunately ended up with the death of Martin.

I've noticed everyone's blindly taking sides on this case but a lot of people fail to look at the bigger picture here;

This seems to have escalated and at this point is not about justice being served for the death of Martin or letting Zimmerman get away with murder they are just taking advantage of this situation, and using race as an excuse to turn us against each other.
we as human beings are strong and independent individually yet we still need to socialize with the people around us in other to survive i suppose... you will always need people around you, in your life no matter what even if it's just one friend. So if this is us individually, imagine how strong and how powerful would we be if we bring humanity together, if we work together and look past the prejudice, racism et al., that would be the worst nightmare of those who actually want to deceive, manipulate and control us so i guess they don't want to stand a chance on that one, they want to keep us divided and fighting against each other that way we would be easier to control and we wouldn't be able to see who the the real enemies are while keeping them entertained with our ignorance. They are using this unfortunate situation in which a young life was lost to keep us divided and to cause more hostility among each other and as far as i see a lot of people are allowing this to go smoothly.