The Two Italian Girls executed!

hmm. barbaric? yes saddam was but look in your own back yard america.
i seen a story recently where a paraniod schizophrenic who was let roam the streets and medicate hilfself.
The man ended up killing someone, now you must remember the drugs these sort of pepole are on will cause short term memory loss, so due to lack of care (which he needed) his medication was being forgotten and he went off his nut and murderd someone.
And what did the god fearing state of texas do put him in jail (he is now medicated properly and quite aware of what is now happening).
and after a short trial and no appeal he was staped onto a bed now compleatly normal like me and you and killed him.
now i ask you take your pick gas, surgicaly removed limbs or leathal injection, electric chair now there is a nice one ohh yes i almost forgot amercia also has GAS chambers in some states.
now who's barbaric???

[edit on 23-9-2004 by unhingedmullet]

Originally posted by unhingedmullet
hmm. barbaric? yes saddam was but look in your own back yard america.
i seen a story recently where a paraniod schizophrenic who was let roam the streets and medicate hilfself.
The man ended up killing someone, now you must remember the drugs these sort of pepole are on will cause short term memory loss, so due to lack of care (which he needed) his medication was being forgotten and he went off his nut and murderd someone.
And what did the god fearing state of texas do put him in jail (he is now medicated properly and quite aware of what is now happening).
and after a short trial and no appeal he was staped onto a bed now compleatly normal like me and you and killed him.
now i ask you take your pick gas, surgicaly removed limbs or leathal injection, electric chair now there is a nice one ohh yes i almost forgot amercia also has GAS chambers in some states.
now who's barbaric???

[edit on 23-9-2004 by unhingedmullet]

We gas our own? Whole towns and villages? How about a much more realistic comparison. Stop watching Michael Moore. (Who is a big a liar as George Bush)

There is a difference between gassing a murdering rapist and gassing someone who does not agree with your politics or because they are ethnically different. Big difference. Actually a huge difference.

Saddam gassed whole villages of men, women and children. Please do not compare the certain states death penalty punishments in the US to a totalitarian dictatorship.

Saddam had limbs surgicaly removed from corupt businessmen. Punishment fits the crime??? And don't give me the religious argument. When was Saddam ever religious? (except for the time he tried to get sympathy from the rest of the M.E.)



[edit on 23-9-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Thinker
Well thats the result of teachings of Islam you get cold blooded murderers.
The dangerous ideology, which prompts murder, kidnappings, beheading, hate, humliation.

The sheep shouldn't go into the valley of wolves and the sheep shouldn't allow the wolves in their valleys.

Not just islam. Many religions pull people into this barbarity.

a life for a life now thats the spirit. A town an idiviual america still gasses pepole!

zcheng

Your kidding right ? About Bush being responsible for the killing in Iraq and there was no beheadings while saddam was in power. Let me ask you if I may did you even know that Iraq existed before we liberated millions from the murderous tyrant saddam ?

It is obsurd for someone to blame this sadistic act of premeditated murder on anyone other than the scum that carried out the heinous act. These radical islamic degenerates need to be hunted down and executed, not defended.

All of the FREE CIVILIZED WORLD mourns the loss of the fallen.
Those who rejoice , the day of reckoning is at hand!!!

Originally posted by unhingedmullet
a life for a life now thats the spirit. A town an idiviual america still gasses pepole!

Nice retort. Did you actually spend any time putting any thought into it?

I am not for the death penalty, but there is a huge difference between gassing a murdering rapist and gassing innocent people who happen to disagree with your political ideas.

Get off your high horse and look into the Saddam's gas attacks of the late 80's on the Kurds before you start pointing fingers.

unhingedmullet

And you would do what, have him move in and be one of the family ! Then wake up one morning to find a loved one slain because you were to ignorant and weak to protect them!!

I hate to break it to you but sometimes you have a bad apple and it must be dealt with. Now Im sure we could arrange to have all the bad apples shipped to you if you promise they wouldn't be returned. Then you could deal with them your way.

By the way , executing a murderer and gasing a village of 10,000 because you dont like them isn't even in the same ball park !!! Sorry...............

yes i do actually agree with you all on this subject but just stop and look at sudan at the moment, you all talk about saddam gassing 10,000 what about the 500,000 displaced in that country not to mention the UNCOUNTABLE amount of lives that that have been lost there.
You better be quick facefirst looks like the black fellas are comming to get ya!!




So tou see facefirst the the reasons you give to justify going into iraq just don't cut it. I think if iraq launched an attack on america with the might the coalition did what do you think would happen, the one thing that you reckon you are trying to stop, THE NUKES WOULD FLY.

[edit on 24-9-2004 by unhingedmullet]

too bad fanoose isnt chiming in on this in support of the beheadings of women... who only had an unarmed guard to protect them cause they didnt think they would be taken for providing humanitarian aid to those who need it the most.. I bet they didnt even get paid for what they were doing and if they did it wasnt much.. Fanoose i would like to see your comments on this if you dont mind... i just would like to see a muslums point of view cause it seems from your previous posts you would be gung ho for doing this act and possibly even do it yourself if you had the chance ... please enlighten us with you perspective

Originally posted by bobobb
too bad fanoose isnt chiming in on this in support of the beheadings of women... i just would like to see a muslums point of view

It goes like this...

You know how there are different types of people all in the same religion, society, etc.?

For example look at Native Americans back in the day. There were some who were peaceful, like Hopi, and some like Apache. Some would trade with homesteaders, and some would kill the males, rape the women for a few days then kill them, or maybe take them as slaves and have fun with them till they died from shock and abuse.

Same thing over there. The guys that are taking people and cutting their heads off, they're like US street gangs on ultraviolence and religious fanaticism. Other Iraqis are simply trying to survive and praying they get through what's developing into a full-blown civil war. It's hard to work for or with the US because when they are not on protected property they have to face these guys who cut heads off.

So for example, when Christians snipe abortion doctors and blow up clinics, we know they're extremists. Muslims have the same attitude toward atrocities.

The vast majority of the population in Iraq just want to live peacefully, just like people in the US. They just don't get the same press that the wild dogs who cut heads off do.

Originally posted by unhingedmullet
yes i do actually agree with you all on this subject but just stop and look at sudan at the moment, you all talk about saddam gassing 10,000 what about the 500,000 displaced in that country not to mention the UNCOUNTABLE amount of lives that that have been lost there.
You better be quick facefirst looks like the black fellas are comming to get ya!!

[edit on 24-9-2004 by unhingedmullet]

What pisses me off more than anything is ignorance.

All the news shows is the death and destruction which should be covered, but they don't show any of the good being done. Fixing sanitation, roads, building schools. I just received some great pictures from a family member with the army in Iraq, and do you know what he was doing? Giving school children books, food and toys. That sure doesn't make the F-ING media. I guess people like you are only interested in death.

Do a google on operation "I CAN."

Face it, we are in Iraq. We are obligated to fix, stabilize and restore what was destroyed. I still want all of our overseas American bases closed, but we owe it to the Iraqi people to help them rebuild. Then we get out.

Originally posted by Facefirst

What pisses me off more than anything is ignorance.

All the news shows is the death and destruction which should be covered, but they don't show any of the good being done.

This is a good point. The thing of it is, though, media is a business with limited opportunity to bring their commodity (stories) to consumers (readers) whether it be newsprint or air time. Thus, the most valuable commodity gets delivered first.

Here's what gets people's interests the most:

Sex
Violence
Society

Combine any of the three and you have the biggest stories. OJ Simpson, Gary Condit, 9/11, war, Princess Diana's death, Britney Spears stupid marraige...

If Iraq was totally peaceful you would see maybe on the Sunday edition, a nice little story about bringing books to Iraqi children. But, since that's not happening in proportion to gratuitous violence, you're unlikely to see it.

If the Washington Post had a front page story of Operation I CAN, and the Washington Times had a story about two Americans getting their heads cut off, the Times will sell and the Post will not. Then the Times gets the readership, their ads get the viewing... You get the picture.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
If the Washington Post had a front page story of Operation I CAN, and the Washington Times had a story about two Americans getting their heads cut off, the Times will sell and the Post will not. Then the Times gets the readership, their ads get the viewing... You get the picture.

That part I understand, but what gets to me is that, for as wrong as the violence is, there needs to be (as FOXNEWS would say and fail to deliver), "A Fair and Balanced" view. All aspects, not just violence. There is still violence there, but there is also good being done there as well. I truly believe that we need to fix what we broke. And we should bring in the UN as well. Everyone needs to pitch in for humanity's sake.

As you earlier pointed out, the vast majority of Iraqis are not fighting, they are just trying to get on with their lives as the rest of us are. You will always have die-hards in every battle, but this is being exacerbated by the foreign fighters coming in through the largely un-protected borders of Syria and Iran.



[edit on 24-9-2004 by Facefirst]

I personally believe that, politically, it's too late. Even if Bush wins, the percentage numbers of seats (bipartisan or on party lines) in Congress will 'contain him', much as they contained Nixon in the immediate aftermath of Vietnam.

Which is a shame because the answer to terror is simple. Equal and proportionate amounts in return.

You issue a 'drivers license' to every man jack and janet in the place. This card includes biometric and DNA identity markers. Whenever a man is caught doing something 'wrong' (and capture should be the aim of our efforts there, not mere fire-on-fire 'suppression'), you hang his family with him.

To make this more likely, you take a division into each town and 'arm in arm' (block to block) sweep the place of weapons. And cameras. And whereever there is resistance, you level it and the block around it with airpower.

Without fail.

And you make it equally clear with random roadblocks and car to car 'drop in' highway inspections by SOF that ANYONE caught with a projectile or explosive weapon of ANY KIND, will be shot on the spot.

Then you announce a 'new rule'. And it's a simple one. For every 1 of ours, 10 of yours. For every 10 of ours, 100 of yours. For every 100 of ours, 1,000 of yours. WIA or KIA. Iraqi's will die for the arrogance of their neighbors. Additively and Sequentially.

These peope are not 'French' (an occupied allied civillian populace suddenly liberated.). If anything they are 'German' (an enemy populace, CONQUERED and occupied, by us). Ironic then that 'The French Solution' to ANY ex-Nazi /problems/ in their neck of the post-WWII occupied Germany must be applied. Overwhelming Force for each Infraction. With the certainty that the bad guys will only be brought to heel by their neighbors refusing to play home and hearth shelter and logistics games.

The Russians having a similar solution, 'along with a trip to Never Never (return) Land' Out East. In which case they burned an entire town to the ground for poisoning a food consignment to the Soviet Military.

Iraqi's are not the 'so sad, once grand, book readers of the Islamic world' a few would be middle class, educated, Iraqi pedants on 60 minutes would have had us once believe. They are, unfortunately, a society at about the adolescent level of transition between a regional leadership based on a revolutionary religion and tribal headmen and a national government based on mafia like nepotism and assassination within the ranks of a minority 'elite' element of the population that represented only about 16% of the Iraqi total for ethnic/religious viewpoint.

They are a people who having known only corruption and exploitation and insecurity for about 80 years now fear only those who power, visually and impressively, demonstrated. On a frequent basis. Which is why Saddam killed so often and left so many portraits and statues of himself to remind people 'who dun it'.

If you allow them to think that you come to make them your equals. They will take advantage of you. If you make them understand that they are an enemy-occupied populace, subject to the most stringent of Martial Law, you will have peace.

The true shame here is that we never admitted that our REAL agenda is inherent to the 20 billion barrels of oil under Iraq's soil and the 1-2% increase, every year in oil demand from the likes of Malaysia, India and China. With only 2 million barrels per day of 'spare production capacity'; losing Iraq would hurt more than our pride. And is thus ultimately MORE IMPORTANT THAN the 'war on terror' (technique not entity, another hopeless wombat hunt).

If you want to raise these people up to be better than their equally despotic and /frightened/ (of the consequences of a fundamentalist shiia regime change as well as democratic prosperity). Then you must make your own motives openly known. And the consequences of their resentment a more deliberate fight.

WE WILL renovate your oil industry for our own purposes.

And YOU WILL sit still for it.

With the proviso of becoming rich beyond your wildest dreams (Alaskan gratuity X10, annually).

Or Else.

Do we have the guts to attempt this? The man to start with is Al Sadr and his penchant for using holy sites as bomb shelters. Bring the _religious fervor_ of Islam down around the ears of it's proponents on the basis of SUFFERING NO MORE SH*T (as Saddam himself once practically levelled this same Mosque). And people will start to understand that no longer is being a symbol of a resistance movement whose actions include such vile attrocities as beheadings and Breslan an insurance policy by popular recogntion.

I see in particular Sheik Sadr's eyes, the same leveled basilisk glare of Hitler. The same refusal to play in the game when he cannot own the outcome of a brighter-future goal. And I know for a certainty that if we don't stop him, we will end up wishing we had. Just as with Hitler and the Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia and Austria. And Poland and Norway and France.

Unfortuntately, I just don't think WE as Americans, know enough of the global resource economics to back our soldiers in becoming the same brutal enforcers as once took 60 million Indians down to about 10 in less that a century. Because what we built here is arguably worth destroying what came before. But we have no feeling of bonded culture with the Middle East. No sense of a '51st State' agenda to making them better than they are now. And we are too used to our philosophic freedoms to want to impose our wills in maintaining an oil dependence that amounts to a coc aine habit we pour into our automobiles for the sake of 'physical liberty' in driving down the road.

Either way, the sooner we take DECISIVE action, the better off we will be.


KP

First of all anyone who executes an innocent person is a coward doesnt matter what religion. Secondly they were CIVILIAN women. Thirdly they were aid workers and not participating in the war. These terrorists are the true infidels. I dont know what mustard gas they have been inhaling but seems that they are really messed up in the head

Have you had enough fighting proxy wars for Israel?
Enough lies about WMD? Enough propaganda about
rose petals awaiting the Westerners in the streets of
Baghdad? Do you still trust the people who fed you this rubbish?

This is not a proxy war for Israel. There were no lies about WMDs. The insurgents do not speak for the Iraqi populace. We were not fed rubbish and those who ever believed that this war would be easy, were self-deluded.

Not to get this thread back on subject or anything....but has the death of these two women ever been confirmed?

Link

A second group, calling itself Ansar al-Zawahiri, on Thursday claimed to have beheaded the women, who it said were Italian intelligence agents. A video of the killings would be posted on the Internet.

The Italian government said that it doubted the authenticity of the statements posted on the Internet that the women had been killed, but stressed it was still checking the reports.

An influential association of Sunni Muslim clerics in Baghdad -- the Committee of Muslim Scholars -- said that the two Italians were probably still alive and being held by a criminal gang.

It's the last part that got me wondering about the women.

unhingedmullet

Sudan you say, you talk of the suffering and the violence against the people of sudan and our lack of involement. If we had 130,000 troops there you would be whistling a different toon. What did they do to you ? The U.S . and President Bush is the reason for the violence.! Blah,blah,blah,blah!!

Some people would bitch if you hung them with a rand new rope.

srtange retort sniper the fact still stands the nukes would fly.
i was just trying to point out the fact that as far as evil peopole who need to be removed from power goes show me how many people saddam killed and then show me how many have died in africa?
it just doesn't add up.

It amazes and annoys me that these sort of topics ALWAYS turn into political fights to the death.

Two unarmed people with nothing but peacfull intentions have been murdered. Who gives a hoot whether it was Muslims, Christians, Jews, British, American or whatever that killed them. The fact is, they are dead, and people killed them in cold blood.

How about we concentrate on the absolutely disgusting, primitive, deplorable act instead of pointing fingers at certain religions or countries??

I would like to know if there is ANYONE in iraq who is as repulsed and disgusted by these acts as much as most people of the western world, seeing as this happened in their country, and if so, whether they are kicking up a stink about it.

If literally ALL iraqiis are sick enough to ENJOY these sort of acts, then I have to agree something REALLY needs to change over there in the way people think.

For those who are saying "well when Saddam was in power that NEVER happened", firstly I'd like to ask what you've been smoking and where the heck you got the idea that horrible attrocities didn't occur when he was in power...

Or have you forgotten about the olympians he threw in the woodchipper because they didn't win a gold medal? Or the mass graves discovered in iraq? Or the many reports by residents of iraq of the parties held by Saddam's son's where they'd throw huge orgies and torture, kill and maim people for pure entertainment?

Attrocities have been committed by both sides...iraq has turned into a hell hole, and it's going to get ALOT worse before it gets better...assuming it ever does. Foreign forces in my opinion DO need to pull out because it's obvious the situation is getting worse the longer they stay, and the world needs to help/presure/encourage the tribal leaders of iraq to reach some form of agreement to stop fighting each other. As for the extremist muslims (who by the way have totally lost the plot as far being TRUE muslims gos), I am afraid it's another loose-loose situation. We ignore them , they grow in numbers and attack the western world. We try to reason with them, they get the poops, grow in numbers, and attack us. We blow them up, the grow in numbers, and attack us... see a pattern here? You kill one spiritual leader, another pops up....