Trade Professional (RE: Ancient Monuments): "I can not build even one wall. Here's a theory."

reply to post by Harte


Nearly anything is possible. However, when considering the colossal logistics of cutting, quarrying, lifting, transporting without damage, precision craftsmanship, and assembling mega-ton stone after mega-ton stone.... it does not seem likely that crude bone, stone, or bronze tools were used.

Remember, this is a theory. A theory that I believe is more plausible than the A.A. theory or the concept that man was an uncivilized, animalistic savage up until the end of the last ice age. Every single explanation for our prehistoric and lost past is also a theory. There are huge gaps to fill in all of the theories because oral traditions, cultures, civilizations, and literature has been lost and destroyed throughout the centuries.

Peace.

Originally posted by Sahabi
Remember, this is a theory. A theory that I believe is more plausible than the A.A. theory or the concept that man was an uncivilized, animalistic savage up until the end of the last ice age.

Yes, but this theory has no evidence whatsoever behind it.

On the other hand, stones at Puma Punku (for example) show evidence of the use of pounding stones and chiseling.

The use of saws there is my opinion. But both saws and saw marks have been found associated with other megalithic structures (Egypt, for example.) Also, copper saws, with sand abrasives, have been demonstrated to work quite well enough to accomplish the job of cutting through most stone used at such sites.

Originally posted by Sahabi
Every single explanation for our prehistoric and lost past is also a theory. There are huge gaps to fill in all of the theories because oral traditions, cultures, civilizations, and literature has been lost and destroyed throughout the centuries.

I agree there are huge gaps. But, they can never be filled by speculation, which is the main characteristic of what you are calling this "theory." Only evidence may be used to establish an actual theory, and the structures themselves are only evidence of an ability to cut and stack stone, albeit in quite a sophisticated manner, and not evidence in and of themselves of some completely unknown (and un-guessed at) methodology.

Harte

reply to post by Harte

the structures themselves are only evidence of an ability to cut and stack stone, albeit in quite a sophisticated manner, and not evidence in and of themselves of some completely unknown (and un-guessed at) methodology.

Academia often represents the "standard model" that Homo Sapien Sapien has been around for over 400,000 years, but only managed to develop "humanity," knowledge, and civilization following the last glacial melt.

However, we have known cultures, art work, and submerged megaliths pre-dating the last glacial retreat. We have identified genetic bottlenecks in the human genome. This is evidence that the "standard model" is incorrect and needs to be modified to adapt to the discoveries we've made during the past decade.

You mention Puma Punku. The blocks are not simply stacked. The blocks are non-standard shapes, and all interlock seamlessly. Additionally, no mortar, cement, or any other bonding agent is used to fit/secure the stones... and the architecture was designed in such a way that the structures have survived centuries of wind and seismic activity. Very impressive.

I'm not sure if you realize that I am not proposing any mysterious or magical explanations for the methods used to build these ancient megalithic sites. They were built with advanced knowledge, meaning, beyond obvious rudimentary understandings. Today we possess advanced knowledge beyond rudiments. For so long we have struggled to understand the sites, and only in this modern era have we been able to conceptualize plausible methods for their construction, or only modernly have we been able to match some of the feats of the ancients. If there is no lost/destroyed/suppressed knowledge... if there is nothing remarkable about the ancient sites... then why has modern man been playing catch up with the ancients for so many centuries?

We can argue and debate possible and plausible methods all day long. That also is not a point I am arguing. I am simply screaming for us to really consider the logistics of such megalithic constructions. The knowledge, the skill, the labor, the time, and the cost is almost incomprehensible; mind-boggling.

Ancient advanced knowledge of mathematics and science, but applied differently than we have modernly. Sorry to keep going in circles here, but there is evidence to support this theory.

Peace.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by Harte

 

the structures themselves are only evidence of an ability to cut and stack stone, albeit in quite a sophisticated manner, and not evidence in and of themselves of some completely unknown (and un-guessed at) methodology.

Academia often represents the "standard model" that Homo Sapien Sapien has been around for over 400,000 years, but only managed to develop "humanity," knowledge, and civilization following the last glacial melt.

However, we have known cultures, art work, and submerged megaliths pre-dating the last glacial retreat.

Really? Such as?

I mean, yeah, a few ceramics and some cave paintings but that's about it. No megalithic structures date that far back.

Also, your characterization of "Academia" is laughable. After all, who do you think is responsible for our knowing about the little artwork and few cultures that we are aware of?

Originally posted by Sahabi
We have identified genetic bottlenecks in the human genome. This is evidence that the "standard model" is incorrect and needs to be modified to adapt to the discoveries we've made during the past decade.

There is no one "standard model." After all, we're not talking about physics here. But could you please elucidate on the pertinence of the genetic bottleneck to the discussion? In what way does it necessitate a change in anyone's theories?

Originally posted by Sahabi
You mention Puma Punku. The blocks are not simply stacked. The blocks are non-standard shapes, and all interlock seamlessly. Additionally, no mortar, cement, or any other bonding agent is used to fit/secure the stones... and the architecture was designed in such a way that the structures have survived centuries of wind and seismic activity. Very impressive.

I didn't mean to imply is wasn't impressive. I meant to imply that there's not a single block there that couldn't have been shaped by the methods I described.

Originally posted by Sahabi

Ancient advanced knowledge of mathematics and science, but applied differently than we have modernly. Sorry to keep going in circles here, but there is evidence to support this theory.

Peace.

If that is true, then why haven't you presented some?

Harte

reply to post by Sahabi

from one of my favourite Sci Fi authors
from Wiki Larry Nine "The Mote In Gods Eye" pub:1974

"The Cycles of civilization, war, and collapse have apparently been repeating for hundreds of thousands of years. In some cases, Mote Prime was completely sterilized and then repopulated by those living in hollowed-out asteroids within the system. The current asymmetrical form is probably a mutation resulting from nuclear weaponry prior to a collapse.

Presumably, each civilization arises, unlocks the museums, and discovers that unless they can solve a problem that had plagued countless others, they are doomed. Thus, the Moties have become fatalistically resigned to the never-ending Cycles. Only a mythical character called "Crazy Eddie" believes there is a way to change this, and any Motie who comes to believe a solution is possible is labeled as a "Crazy Eddie" and deemed insane.

The current civilization is organized as a type of "industrial feudalism", where coalitions of related Masters govern the planet. Using the system's Alderson point to colonize other planets is proposed as one (ultimately unworkable) solution to the Cycles, leading to its designation as the "Crazy Eddie Point". Conflict erupts on Mote Prime between two groups of Masters considering this idea."

We are more than the sum of our parts. Knowledge is power, civilizations rise and fall. The keepers of knowledges enjoy our serfdom.
eg. "Why can't I build my own house, I know how to lay bricks." Oh but you don't have a building license. "But these builders with licenses build houses that dont last or have inherent faults that only come to the surface after many years." Yes "but they have a license and insurance". "But I paid for the insurance indirectly through the cost of the house and when the fault appeared it was judged by an assessor (an ex builder) not to fall within the parameters of the Insurance Policy. Oh..you mean that actually "the Guild" looks after their own." No, you are being unhelpful its not quite like that. We are here provide a service and to build to a price. "So you are blaming the Market."
Whatever, you have read a few bits and peices but that doesnt make you an expert. Just pay the mortgage or sell it to someone else before its too late...problem solved.
Now what about medicine...what does it actually cure? "There are no cures only treatments"

Cynic: noun,
a person who believes that only selfishness motivates human actions and who disbelieves in or minimizes selfless acts or disinterested points of view.

Great post, and thanks for the time taken in preparing your OP

reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight

Nice name.
I take it you like King Crimson?

Sorry it's off topic, I've had a rough time the last two weeks with my wife in hospital. Small steps bring progress.

Short comment

You guys are concentrating on the large stones too much. In the thousands of years we've moved stone the ancients only move 12 that were over 400 tons and about 100+ (estimate) over 200 tons, so they are rather uncommon - yet people obsess over them! The largest select of them? In Khafre's mortuary temple

Originally posted by Hanslune
Short comment

You guys are concentrating on the large stones too much. In the thousands of years we've moved stone the ancients only move 12 that were over 400 tons and about 100+ (estimate) over 200 tons, so they are rather
uncommon - yet people obsess over them! The largest select of them? In Khafre's mortuary temple

Yes and overstating the accuracy of the blocks and their placement. What looks smooth and fantastically fitted in photo is really not so smooth or perfectly fitted when inspected closely.
And in the case of some of the large andean constructions only the exposed portion of the joint is finely finished and only a couple of inches in.

Originally posted by punkinworks10

Originally posted by Hanslune
Short comment

You guys are concentrating on the large stones too much. In the thousands of years we've moved stone the ancients only move 12 that were over 400 tons and about 100+ (estimate) over 200 tons, so they are rather
uncommon - yet people obsess over them! The largest select of them? In Khafre's mortuary temple

Yes and overstating the accuracy of the blocks and their placement. What looks smooth and fantastically fitted in photo is really not so smooth or perfectly fitted when inspected closely.
And in the case of some of the large andean constructions only the exposed portion of the joint is finely finished and only a couple of inches in.

An image to go with your correct observation

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by punkinworks10

Originally posted by Hanslune
Short comment

You guys are concentrating on the large stones too much. In the thousands of years we've moved stone the ancients only move 12 that were over 400 tons and about 100+ (estimate) over 200 tons, so they are rather
uncommon - yet people obsess over them! The largest select of them? In Khafre's mortuary temple

Yes and overstating the accuracy of the blocks and their placement. What looks smooth and fantastically fitted in photo is really not so smooth or perfectly fitted when inspected closely.
And in the case of some of the large andean constructions only the exposed portion of the joint is finely finished and only a couple of inches in.

An image to go with your correct observation

Here we have it!!! The advance technology passed down by the Ancient Aliens....

Filler....

reply to post by Xtrozero


Being an alien means looking good in your work and not doing good

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by Harte

 

the structures themselves are only evidence of an ability to cut and stack stone, albeit in quite a sophisticated manner, and not evidence in and of themselves of some completely unknown (and un-guessed at) methodology.

Academia often represents the "standard model" that Homo Sapien Sapien has been around for over 400,000 years, but only managed to develop "humanity," knowledge, and civilization following the last glacial melt.

However, we have known cultures, art work, and submerged megaliths pre-dating the last glacial retreat. We have identified genetic bottlenecks in the human genome. This is evidence that the "standard model" is incorrect and needs to be modified to adapt to the discoveries we've made during the past decade.

You mention Puma Punku. The blocks are not simply stacked. The blocks are non-standard shapes, and all interlock seamlessly. Additionally, no mortar, cement, or any other bonding agent is used to fit/secure the stones... and the architecture was designed in such a way that the structures have survived centuries of wind and seismic activity. Very impressive.

I'm not sure if you realize that I am not proposing any mysterious or magical explanations for the methods used to build these ancient megalithic sites. They were built with advanced knowledge, meaning, beyond obvious rudimentary understandings. Today we possess advanced knowledge beyond rudiments. For so long we have struggled to understand the sites, and only in this modern era have we been able to conceptualize plausible methods for their construction, or only modernly have we been able to match some of the feats of the ancients. If there is no lost/destroyed/suppressed knowledge... if there is nothing remarkable about the ancient sites... then why has modern man been playing catch up with the ancients for so many centuries?

We can argue and debate possible and plausible methods all day long. That also is not a point I am arguing. I am simply screaming for us to really consider the logistics of such megalithic constructions. The knowledge, the skill, the labor, the time, and the cost is almost incomprehensible; mind-boggling.

Ancient advanced knowledge of mathematics and science, but applied differently than we have modernly. Sorry to keep going in circles here, but there is evidence to support this theory.

Peace.

I'm with you, another thing that shows a level of intelligence is Axial precession. Every 26,000 years and how monuments are aligned to this. You just don't one day sit back and discover this science, it either has to be observed and recorded. Or obserseved and recorded and then mathimatically figured out to what and where the constellations would be. And for them to be able to do this, they would have to know that the planet was round.

en.wikipedia.org...(astronomy)

Originally posted by hoghead cheese

I'm with you, another thing that shows a level of intelligence is Axial precession. Every 26,000 years and how monuments are aligned to this. You just don't one day sit back and discover this science, it either has to be observed and recorded. Or obserseved and recorded and then mathimatically figured out to what and where the constellations would be. And for them to be able to do this, they would have to know that the planet was round.

en.wikipedia.org...(astronomy)

And why would that be?

Axial precession has been known in the western world since like 150 BC, so it does not take advance anything to figure it out. You also assume that their 30,000 year calendar is related to Axial precession, which it just might be, but who knows. I say since they didn't have TV and electricity they had a lot of time to look at the stars and find patterns.

One of those patterns was that stars changed their longitude position about one degree every 75 years i.e. Axial precession. No big math, just a lot of notes, but we can't assume they even knew what this change was. It is still amazing that they might have been aware of it, but I can't say it was due to advance math of some lost ancient civilization.

reply to post by Sahabi


Thank you for sharing.

Aliens came here from a hidden planet in our solar system. They landed on a planet between earth and mars. (Off coarse I’ m not sure but I’m sure it’s possible ( adsabs.harvard.edu... ) Transformed a species that lived on earth so that their pure good soul could survive on earth. And realized after some time that on mother earth the struggle for life principle (evil) was a ‘conditio sine qua non’. They degenerated. 12.600 years ago they felt the need to destroy their creatures. They moved their original ‘headquarter planet’ and placed in where nature never could have placed it.
The planet became our moon.
Evil is nothing else than struggle for life. It ‘s natural on mother earth. The good thing is: we can do something about it.
I care for animals but they have no soul. They have only the germ of a soul that never could become mature on a planet like earth, where every living being has to diversify, develop very fast and die very fast, only to stay flexible, so that a few species can survive the next catastrophe.
Some people on this planet know the secret but what can they do? I mean: put yourself in their place. Sharing their secret would end in chaos. So they are preparing us bit by bit.
I made a site of it ( www.evawaseerst.be ) It’s in Dutch, so few people would understand. But never mind (you never know).

Originally posted by zandra

Aliens came here from a hidden planet in our solar system. They landed on a planet between earth and mars. (Off coarse I’ m not sure but I’m sure it’s possible ( adsabs.harvard.edu... ) Transformed a species that lived on earth so that their pure good soul could survive on earth. And realized after some time that on mother earth the struggle for life principle (evil) was a ‘conditio sine qua non’. They degenerated. 12.600 years ago they felt the need to destroy their creatures. They moved their original ‘headquarter planet’ and placed in where nature never could have placed it.
The planet became our moon.

How does a planet the size of the moon develop any life at all much less advance lifeforms. Also if nature could not put the moon where it is, then did they put ALL the moons around the other planets in place too since nature could not have done that either?

Evil is nothing else than struggle for life. It ‘s natural on mother earth. The good thing is: we can do something about it.

Actually Good and Evil only happens when one has the ability to choose from two or more possible outcomes. When a lion kills that is neither a good nor evil act for the lion does not have the ability to pick multiple outcomes to satisfy the need to eat. Only one that is aware understands that there are many different choices for the same situation. As in, should I help this old lady across the street, ignore her, rob her, buy her a meal, or should I push her in front of a bus. In the case of the old lady I have many choices of either a good or evil acts that animals do not have..

this is amazing news

I laugh at people when I get into a conversation about ancient monuments and they say the slaves built them. Then i show them how exact the measurements are and they are baffled!! I was too the first time I learned about all of this. I personally agree with the opinion of the OP. It's pretty amazing how much we don't even know about our own past. All I know is that the next couple decades are gonna be worth waiting for!

Originally posted by ThatDude13
I laugh at people when I get into a conversation about ancient monuments and they say the slaves built them. Then i show them how exact the measurements are and they are baffled!!

What exactly baffles them?

It's pretty amazing how much we don't even know about our own past.

I'm more amazed by what we know about our past

All I know is that the next couple decades are gonna be worth waiting for!

Ah we agree, I suspect archaeological research will rebound in the mid-tweens and we should have some excellent finds provided by DNA, paleoarchaeology but also by sedimentology and archobotanists before 2030

Wrong thread

reply to post by Sahabi


You get a star. I cannot wait to finish reading this wheni get home