Trade Professional (RE: Ancient Monuments): "I can not build even one wall. Here's a theory."

reply to post by Xtrozero


A few comments on your discussion with the other person

Wedges

Stone can be split using a wedge (called a sett) normally a metal wedge was used but it that failed to split the wood some reports used dry wood forced into the line of 'points'

You may wish to refer to

ancient quarries

Which is a study of the ancient quarry techniques




Link to article on AE quarries

More on AE quarry - this guy didn't like the water method

Summary, yeah you can split stone with wedges, they did so until the 19th century, when power wedges were introduced

Edit to add another way:

Various experimental studies and analysis of the quarries at Aswan suggest that the actual process of extraction in pharaonic times involved the excavation of opencast quarries, by means of hammerstones, gradually removing the desired stone from the surface and working downward. Once the chosen area of rock had been roughly evened out it was probably strewn with glowing charcoal embers and then cold water was quickly poured over, so that the surface of the stone disintegrated at this point, making the block easier to extract. The edges of the desired block were then traced out and the side faces cut down to the necessary depth. For smoothing the faces, an abrasive powder of crushed quartzite was used, with grains that were sharp-edged unlike the rounded ones of desert sand.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by SteelToe

 

Having seen examples of tree roots and water eroding rocky mountain sides I guess I can see your point of how the methods you suggest might have worked, but once the rocks were even split, how would you explain the precision stone work, chisals?

So basically wood wedges and iron shanks is what just about every book on the subject talks about with many examples of iron spikes and hammers. If a group did not have access to bronze/copper/iron type metals then wood would be their only resource.
Just about every book on the subject says chisels and mauls were used. Chisels could chip away and mauls would beat the stone. They have Chisels and mauls dating back 4500 years.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I follow the Sitchin school pretty much as far as where we came from and why don't we have a niche nor do we fit in naturally on this planet, why can't we get away from technology type questions

it explains everything very simply and explains our seemingly inherent drive towards being a more technologically dependent species. a biologically genetic memory towards technological dependence? think how much they have to depend on technology, isn't that where we're headed? I would prefer THEIR technology over ours at the present time. I'm not against technology, I'm against dirty technology that pollutes the environment such as oil or coal.

I have no agenda other than ultimately supporting anything (except murder) that leads to clean, free energy. If we got rid of our current forms of energy production the world's economy would survive due to the influx of products using this new source of free, ubiquitous energy that everyone could benefit from and we could provide food, clean water, education, etc. to everyone around the world almost overnight.

I don't have a problem with us being the red headed stepchild of the Anunnaki. So far, they show great compassion and encouragement for us either directly or indirectly. I have great respect for our species and would have no problem shaking hands with one of the Nephilim and looking him/her in the eye as an honest person. And then I would have no problem keeling to their greatness what with that UFO hovering behind them!!!

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I follow the Sitchin school pretty much as far as where we came from and why don't we have a niche nor do we fit in naturally on this planet,

Interesting a claim for a 'Sitchin school' of theory

Not to change the subject you might want to start another thread on this 'Sitchin school' and why in your opinion, discounting our genetic and chemical make up, why we don't fit in naturally on this planet.

reply to post by Hanslune


Thanks, I'm not totally riveted to the whole wood wedge idea, but there is a lot written on it. We do know that metal tools have been used much longer than when PP is said to be created, but i do not know if they found any metal tools at that quarry site.

I do find it funny that people will say that it is impossible to use either of these two methods when we have so many examples of stone being chipped and then split. We then have people say well the really big monoliths can't be done this way even though we have many examples of very large stones cut but still in the quarries.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I follow the Sitchin school pretty much as far as where we came from and why don't we have a niche nor do we fit in naturally on this planet, why can't we get away from technology type questions

it explains everything very simply and explains our seemingly inherent drive towards being a more technologically dependent species. a biologically genetic memory towards technological dependence? think how much they have to depend on technology, isn't that where we're headed? I would prefer THEIR technology over ours at the present time. I'm not against technology, I'm against dirty technology that pollutes the environment such as oil or coal.

I have no agenda other than ultimately supporting anything (except murder) that leads to clean, free energy. If we got rid of our current forms of energy production the world's economy would survive due to the influx of products using this new source of free, ubiquitous energy that everyone could benefit from and we could provide food, clean water, education, etc. to everyone around the world almost overnight.

I don't have a problem with us being the red headed stepchild of the Anunnaki. So far, they show great compassion and encouragement for us either directly or indirectly. I have great respect for our species and would have no problem shaking hands with one of the Nephilim and looking him/her in the eye as an honest person. And then I would have no problem keeling to their greatness what with that UFO hovering behind them!!!

edit on 26-3-2012 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)

How do we not fit in...everything living on this planet including us is related in DNA. Even grass is related to us.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Yes tons of evidence of splitting but also just bashing it out with stone hammers, like the Rapa Nui did and the AE, the problem is few people are willing to read into the previous research in the area - basically they are treating it like a mysterious subject that has never been looked at while in fact its been researched - but the conclusions don't support fun fringe ideas.

reply to post by Hanslune


lol

reply to post by Xtrozero


and that's why the Starchild Skull shares the FOXP2 gene with us and frogs

I like the OPS orig pics and kewl take on things, but it still seems like just too much for people to have accomplished (for some unknown reason at the same time all across the globe) Just how did they all decide to build pyramid shaped structures and why? I do agree we are part of a collective amnesia that permeates our very core. I used to work in an antique mall for years. People would walk in that would be in their 40-50 and have no idea what something from the 1800's was used for, like a wagon jack. Other people from the 20-30 age range would have no idea what some kitchen tool would be, rotary apple peelers.

Assuming the ancient peoples had anything like what we have going on from generation to generation, stuff gets forgotten VERY fast.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


The Egyptians were not a primitive society as many imagine. They were skilled craftsman and engaged in trade with other cultures. They used make-up and perfume and made exquisite jewelry, sculptures and artwork. They made furniture, clothes houses, irrigation systems, pottery and glass. They experimented with alchemy and developed techniques of skilled metal working. They practiced medicine and surgery. It's even possible they discovered and used forms of electricity.

History of Ancient Egypt

The Nile Valley of Egypt was basically uninhabitable until the work of clearing and irrigating the land along the banks of the river was started.[1] However it appears that this clearance and irrigation was largely under way by about 6000 BC. By that time, society in the Nile Valley was already engaged in organized agriculture and the construction of large buildings in the Nile Valley

Early Dynastic Period of Egypt

The Archaic or Early Dynastic Period of Egypt immediately follows the unification of Lower and Upper Egypt c. 3100 BC. It is generally taken to include the First and Second Dynasties, lasting from the Protodynastic Period of Egypt until about 2686 BC, or the beginning of the Old Kingdom

They were doing advanced agriculture 6000 years ago. Think how much technology has advanced in the last 100 years or so. It isn't unreasonable to think that ancient societies developed skills, tools and techniques for building and quarrying and that those techniques varied by location and cultures.

en.wikipedia.org...

Technology in Dynastic Egypt

Significant advances in ancient Egypt during the dynastic period include astronomy, mathematics, and medicine. Their geometry was a necessary outgrowth of surveying to preserve the layout and ownership of farmland, which was flooded annually by the Nile river. The 3,4,5 right triangle and other rules of thumb served to represent rectilinear structures, and the post and lintel architecture of Egypt. Egypt also was a center of alchemy research for much of the western world.

Paper and writing

A section of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which is written and drawn on papyrus
The word paper comes from the Greek term for the ancient Egyptian writing material called papyrus, which was formed from beaten strips of papyrus plants. Papyrus was produced as early as 3000 BC in Egypt, and sold to ancient Greece and Rome.

Buildings

In Hellenistic Egypt, lighthouse technology was developed, the most famous example being the Lighthouse of Alexandria. Alexandria was a port for the ships that traded the goods manufactured in Egypt or imported into Egypt.

Navigation and ship building

The Ancient Egyptians had knowledge to some extent of sail construction. This is governed by the science of aerodynamics.

Irrigation and agriculture

Irrigation as the artificial application of water to the soil was used to some extent in Ancient Egypt, a hydraulic civilization (which entail hydraulic engineering)

Glassworking

Egyptian knowledge of glassmaking was advanced.[27] The earliest known glass beads from Egypt were made during the New Kingdom around 1500 BC and were produced in a variety of colors.

Astronomy

Medicine

Mummification of the dead

reply to post by SteelToe


Yes exactley, great examples of advanced technology, no?

reply to post by Sahabi


Very well done, this allows me to ponder many things. I also believe in aliens, but I do believe with Graham Hancock that we had an ancient precursor civilization that was a golden age and that they had techology and then a cataclysm happened. Ask yourself how did the Megafauna die out. Some say it was from the change in climate (don't buy that, the've been around for hundreds of thousands if not a few million years and where able to adapt). I remember over 20 years ago scientists where trying to say if was from over hunting (that's BS, because if that is the case why aren't the rest of the animals dead and gone and two at the time we maybe maybe had on the planet 20 to 45 million humans and I think that is wrong and it was much lower). What if the cataclysm was multiple ones. A change in the magnetic shield around the planet and during so a massive radiation burst from the sun or maybe a Nova remnant got through and irradiated much of the higher life forms. And then doing so it started the melting of the ice quickly leading to the flood myths around the planet.

I've always said that the most horrible things that where done in our world was the destruction of the ancient libraries. Because I have a feeling that many of them explained alot of detail about the world that was.

reply to post by pheonix358

It's possible, I guess. Look at the tribes that STILL exist in the modern world. They're little more than hunter/gatherers. Will they stay that way for hundreds or thousands of years no matter what happens elsewhere? But why don't we find remains of higher societies? Are they buried in the oceans?

What will happen to earth in 500 years????? We can't keep growing.... without big changes. If I recall right, just 300-700 years or so of normal population growth will fill every square meter of land with humans. Something dramatic will have to happen because we're already unsustainable. Either we will slow down our growth significantly or we will live below ground, above ground, and/or in space and will have developed the necessary technologies to survive the point at which we overdeplete the planet.

reply to post by Hanslune

[in my best James the English butler tone] One doesn't use carbon dating on rocks, SIR

It was a general view of what dating back could be.

Oh no a creationist, well all rational discussion ends, lol, Sorry dudette no deluge, lots of stuff survived from earlier times besides rocks

I only said artifacts, not fossils and stone-based items. The deluge just put things a lot deeper, so dating could be off by some time. and correction, I'm a dude.

I must respectfully disagree, we must root out as much knowledge that we can of the past

suggestion, avoid it at all costs, and only look at the events that are non-technological, only looking at that's technology and rebuilding it would only bring demise, such as those of old. But I'll go with the idea of the building, engineering techniques they used.

But what you say, root out as much knowledge that we can from the past, you are only to take what you need, not what you want. Also from the sound of it, you want the weapons too? sure, take the weapons, the battleships, and the whole bundle and massacre the Earth till nothing is left. They were on the brink, until an event happened that changed that and the knowledge of the warmachines and the mass shedding of blood was lost in that event. Thank God for that event.

And to add another artifact that survived is one that is 17000 miles long located in south America. Name: The granite roads of South America. and not one chip can be made on it. Not even the most advance drill we have cold do such a work.

reply to post by shake101


I have thought of The Reptilian/Supernatural/Demonic intervention theory aswell, my conclusion was even if true then that GOD would not be from here so it brought me back to

reply to post by Xtrozero


It is rather a function of belief, if one believes that aliens or advanced human technology is needed to do masonry well then, all evidence against that idea is simply rejected. Deny is easy to use and requires little thought or knowledge.

As I noted before the majority of people in this thread have no idea of what research has been done in the last century on this subject nor what the Spanish and Spanish educated locals wrote about the Inca culture in the 16th century.

Now what they focus on is a lack of documents or images from a non-literate society, yep no manuals, nor will there ever be any found.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I only said artifacts, not fossils and stone-based items. The deluge just put things a lot deeper, so dating could be off by some time. and correction, I'm a dude.

Please pardon my gender identification misstep, the problem is, if in a scientific discussion you bring up the 'biblical deluge', as if it actually happened this instantly shows you're not having a scientific discussion! It like bringing up the texture of cheese the moon is made up of

But what you say, root out as much knowledge that we can from the past, you are only to take what you need, not what you want. Also from the sound of it, you want the weapons too?

My use of root out is a collective term for all knowledge, information on weapons, yes but since we are so far beyond them I really don't think a better bow, atlatl or chain mail design is really going to help out the modern world, lol

sure, take the weapons, the battleships, and the whole bundle and massacre the Earth till nothing is left.

They were on the brink, until an event happened that changed that and the knowledge of the warmachines and the mass shedding of blood was lost in that event. Thank God for that event.

Mass sheding of blood has occurred nearly every year since year 5,000 BC not sure what you are referring to, did you miss WWI?

And to add another artifact that survived is one that is 17000 miles long located in south America. Name: The granite roads of South America. and not one chip can be made on it. Not even the most advance drill we have cold do such a work.

I believe it was longer than that actually. Not really sure what you comment is about, are you saying that you cannot chip granite? Sure you can, the Spanish noted that the roads

either dug up the road completely in some areas, or allowed it to deteriorate and fall into ruin under iron-clad horses' hooves, or the metal wheels of ox-carts

Cameron, Ian (1990). Kingdom of the Sun God: a history of the Andes and their people. New York: Facts on File. p. 65. ISBN 0-8160-2581-9

If iron horse shoes and wheel rims will do in a road (they will) I'm not sure about your comments on 'advance drills', granite is granite, they bashed it and we can cut it without great difficulty

General comment to those interested in Inca and earlier masony

This is a tricky question, especially for those championing advanced human and alien technology

How did the Inca and their predecessors build roofs? Did they have fancy super advanced roofs ...... or what?

Originally posted by Hanslune
General comment to those interested in Inca and earlier masony

This is a tricky question, especially for those championing advanced human and alien technology

How did the Inca and their predecessors build roofs? Did they have fancy super advanced roofs ...... or what?

I think the problem rest with the believers say nothing lasts, well except stone, but that is not true, and even if something doesn't last it will leave an imprint like dinosaur bones do for 65 million years as they turn to stone. So though the actual item might not last it would leave an imprint in stone like a fossil.