Claiming the Ascended Masters for Your Own

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

I don't have to know you to be genuine, I do care about your salvation, I want you to see the truth for yourself and for that I know exposing cracks in foundations stings but sometimes the necessary love is the kind that sharpens us as friction happens. I am not patronizing you. The truth is important to me. Your salvation is important to me and I would rather you be completely hot or cold about Christ and true to yourself than to lie to yourself about how close you are in relationship with our Father as is in Jesus Christ.

What a load of hooey.
You don't care about her salvation. You care about being pious and argumentative. How 'bout you just worry about your own image, and check those cracks in your own foundations. Find a library.

She's not interested. Walk away.

My boasting has not been in myself. Those pious words that come straight from Scripture whereby I argue are not my own. My arguments and words have not been with condemnation although perhaps sharp but such are the words that aren't truly mine whereby I do stand.

I know this is cliche but ATS is an open forum to discuss the topics at hand and on the matter of ascended master's I find it personally important that Christ be spoken of in truth, not according to unfounded knowledge and presuppositions that effectively creates a god who serves us rather than God having created us to serve him in faith. I do care, about her and you regardless of how you may feel. Nevertheless, I have spoken my peace for now. If she is further interested, she and I may continue to reason together.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Do you seriously believe there is Christ's equal in all the world because what you just said?

Right now, you mean?
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, for one.
and Thich Nhat Hanh maybe.

There have been evolved souls, perfected souls, come and go for millennia. In my opinion, they might eve be the SAME perfected soul, who returns from time to time.

I never said Christ was "just a guy", I also am fine with believing he arrived AS AN ADVANCED, PERFECTED soul, where most folks must take the slow road of hundreds of incarnations before they TOO become perfected.

Get with the program.

The Dalai Lama, not a perfect being. Still dead, still in the grave. That includes all the rest of humanity. Good does not exist without God being its objective definer. Nevertheless, our goodness is as filthy rags to a sinless God, and that includes all men else you make God a liar. We cannot in truth create God, either he exists independent of us (we dependent on him) or all this goodness and perfect soul and other stuff is nothingness and means nothing at all. We must serve God where he may be found.

On Christ the solid rock I stand. He is yet to let me down. I believe I'll stick with the program of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ the only begotten son of God who was hanged on a cross, buried, and three days later rose again unto new life. Live men don't die for the glory of dead men and that i human nature. So regardless of the Bible, if Christ were not risen, why would the apostles and paul and countless others go on to sacrifice their lives and fortunes even unto crucifixion, burning, stoning, and decapitation for faith in a man who did not in fact appear to them after he rose again?

I know where I stand. You really find hope in your opinion of being regurgitated into this vain life over and over again regardless of the truth of the life of Christ?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Really? A bunch of illogical fallacies that all boil down to your opinion? (Proceeds to bang head against the computer screen.)

In response to Lie #1

I don't put much stock in the Abrahamic religions. I do not believe that Jesus was the son of a God or had an immaculate conception. I'd just as easily believe that aliens abducted the poor girl and implanted her with a genetically altered fetus. As to him being raised again, I don't see how that is relevant. Once again, I will state that I don't think Jesus Christ is a god, but I do respect the man. Looking at his teachings, I have very little to disagree with as far as his message of hope. I don't believe the bible is the word of God. That is my opinion. If that makes me a liar to you, well add me to the long list you already have.

In response to Lie #2

Again, your opinion. I don't dishonor your beliefs or system. You are welcome to them whenever you wish. I respect your right to practice what ever you believe. I won't even tell you your wrong in believing them. What more can I do? (shrugs)

In response to Lie #3

Again, I believe we can save ourselves - that this is one philosophical issue that Christians should be apt to embrace, I'd think. After all, Christ did die to save us all didn't he? It seems to me that for two thousand years now, the excuse has been: the bible tells us that Christ will come again and take us all home. So it's okay to tolerate wrong behavior. In the end, they'll get theirs! What??? I'm not christian, so it's nothing if I state that the think we should save ourselves. It's your opinion that we all need to be saved. Neither of us are a liar, we simply have different views.

In response to Lie #4

Once again, opinion. If you felt that I was passing judgement on you, Indeed, I wonder at how you thought I felt with your initial post and subsequently second one to me. Once again, I'm not Christian, nor do I believe Christ was a God. I was posting in the context of Jesus as a man. That he was ever "elevated" to the level of fairy tale and conjecture, and not still thought of as the man who lived, is the real dishonor here. As to my practices, of course to a much smaller extent I've felt better after being sick using my own methods and remedies. Yet, I think we have just tapped the surface in our capabilities. I still can't get that walking on water thing though. I've been meaning to call David Blane for a few pointers.

I'm not interested in salvation. Somebody has to be willing to stay behind and help all those poor lost souls.

If you do have any concerns for me, I'd ask politely for you to refrain from sharing them. I'm not interested in the negative energy you'd be sending my way - I assure you. You have been quite plainly abrasive and argumentative from the outset of your conversing with me.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

1) Saving yourself is logical whereas Christ rising from the dead and the proof of it (which is the whole point) is illogical? I'm not arguing here just to argue. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, narrow is the way and straight is the gate that leads to life everlasting, or is the Word of God made flesh not explicit enough that you have to say you believe in what he teaches but make up what you want as you go along. I stand by my premise that it is dangerous to lie to yourself about anything. Logically, truth cannot be relative and is straight. I am trying to reason with you.

2) Christ rising from the grave is everything. To ignore that is the epitome of denying the truth being willfully ignorant. Jesus says," I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me." Perhaps you truly do not honor or respect him, or our Father who sent him according to scripture. Is this not the hope you say agree with except don't? Live according to your opinions however, for I will live according to my faith in Christ.

3) Tolerating ones beliefs and extending them the courtesy of freedom to practice their beliefs has nothing to do with mocking our savior, dishonoring Christ, and preaching against the Word of God according to ones own opinions in the name of believing in Christ one includes as just another sinner with the rest of mankind refusing his rising from the grave. You are deceiving innocent people so if not for your sake then for theirs I will not shrug just yet. I will however let you be if you allow but do not defame our savior further. What he accomplished on the cross is far superior to any and all. You will see.

4)You obviously do not know scripture or the teachings of Christ if you believe Christians should be apt to believe such as that we, sinners, can save ourselves. Did he die to save us or did he die in vain so we may have to save ourselves? And how at that are we supposed to save ourselves? According to a relative goodness or according to goodness as objectified of God in Christ? Perhaps you should accompany your perceptions of what the Bible says with actually reading it (Romans 6 : What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?).

I suppose if your God is created by you in relativity to serve you and the ways you think things ought to be then you should rethink who God really is and whether or not, if He exists, He is dependent on us or us on Him. Relativity is no philosophy.

5) It is a shame one cannot distinguish between personal judgmental rhetoric and the simple stating of the Word of God. I read the judgment, " [Christ] He is more like me than you." Your emotions tell you you are being judged. Perhaps the Word of God is a double edged sword. Nevertheless, (shrug). I honestly don't care if you judge me, I am not judged by you regardless.

According to you taking an aspirin for a headache, not the same thing as what you elevated yourself to along with Christ. David Blane can't raise the dead, nor has he been given authority for salvation. Laugh in yourself according to those tricks you tell yourself make you like God though. It's sad, you elevated yourself to God's position without giving Him credit as God in your relativity.

In love and real hope I pray you do help them. We must be on the same mission for lost souls

It will be nothing to let this go in silence but I politely ask that you , in return, refrain from slandering the name of Christ telling those lost souls you believe in Christ and his words while teaching to the contrary.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

The Dalai Lama, not a perfect being. Still dead, still in the grave.

What the hell are you talking about?

He's very much alive.

You really find hope in your opinion of being regurgitated into this vain life over and over again regardless of the truth of the life of Christ?

Yeppers! Very much so. It's what he taught, and what he was talking about. "You must be born again." And you know what?

I'M. NOT. AFRAID.

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

I don't have to know you to be genuine, I do care about your salvation, I want you to see the truth for yourself and for that I know exposing cracks in foundations stings but sometimes the necessary love is the kind that sharpens us as friction happens. I am not patronizing you. The truth is important to me. Your salvation is important to me and I would rather you be completely hot or cold about Christ and true to yourself than to lie to yourself about how close you are in relationship with our Father as is in Jesus Christ.

What a load of hooey.
You don't care about her salvation. You care about being pious and argumentative. How 'bout you just worry about your own image, and check those cracks in your own foundations. Find a library.

She's not interested. Walk away.

My boasting has not been in myself. Those pious words that come straight from Scripture whereby I argue are not my own. My arguments and words have not been with condemnation although perhaps sharp but such are the words that aren't truly mine whereby I do stand.

I know this is cliche but ATS is an open forum to discuss the topics at hand and on the matter of ascended master's I find it personally important that Christ be spoken of in truth, not according to unfounded knowledge and presuppositions that effectively creates a god who serves us rather than God having created us to serve him in faith. I do care, about her and you regardless of how you may feel. Nevertheless, I have spoken my peace for now. If she is further interested, she and I may continue to reason together.

Nope. No. Uh-uh. Hold up a minute here. The main tenure of your posting indicates to me that you are circular in your arguments using some of the more basic arguments many fundamentalists use that are false. For example, the bible is not the word of god. No where - not one part of it's scripture - does it state that it is. Another argument is the resurrection of Christ that you mentioned. Outside of the new testament there is NO historical reference of Christ's resurrection appearing in ANY historical document of the same time period.

So dare I ask? Is it safe to assume that you don't think that anyone can be like Christ? Follow example in these supposedly great and gifted human beings? Do you think that for somebody to be saved by Christ, they have to be just like you? Go to church like you. Accept the bible as the Word as you. Follow only the wide path of Christianity? Instead of seeking out a solitary, narrow, and unnamed path?

I of course, will try discussing with you any issues concerning religion and topic relating to their threads. But if you must go off topic with personal attacks to assert yourself, why not create your own thread? However, I do not appreciate being called a liar and then getting led on the merry chase of circular reasoning.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


You are doing well on your journey here on earth. Only a few of us have a big enough heart to study all the spiritual masters without prejudice. I applaud you for that.

Where there is truth there is always an equal amount of lies and deception. All the holy texts contain universal truths, and the truth shall set you free. Some people don't want that to happen (as you're experiencing in your own thread).

I wish you much strength on your journey. It tends to be a lonely trek for only a few are ready to go where you are headed

Best,

AllIsOne

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Hah. What fun! I have NEVER been called Christian before. You made me giggle. Thank you for the response.

I wonder, if I am a Christian, what kind of Christian am I? I only ask because I use the tarot, I Ching, runes, I meditate, channel, collect crystals and all that witchy stuff.

Christian Spiritualist? Christian Seer. Christian Pagan, Christian Soothesayer.

LOL LOL LOL I'm creating oxymoron's....

Well if you believe in Christ's teachings you shouldn't do any of those

Why? Jesus was obviously a witch. If he were born a few generations later, he would have been burned at the stake instead of crucified. Wouldn't the practice of divination and other forms of magick be following in his footsteps?

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
It will be nothing to let this go in silence but I politely ask that you , in return, refrain from slandering the name of Christ telling those lost souls you believe in Christ and his words while teaching to the contrary.

edit on 23-3-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)

Once again a lot of circular arguments. We can go at this all day long have a field match with illogical fallacies, and it wouldn't change my view on Christ. Which I am allowed. I can't identify and strive to be like Christ, but you can? I wonder why that is? I wonder how Christ would feel about that? After all, Christianity didn't begin around Christ did it? When Christ walked the path his followers walked it with them. You didn't. You know as much as me and in fact you probably know less. I actually follow Christ's example and study all faiths and beliefs. As his own example teaches. Well gee-whiz, I bet he'd be kind of ticked off having every one else putting suppositions in his mouth wouldn't he? Indeed, I assure you, if he is anything as I've come to understand he'd applaud the free-will and fight for change against the oppressive dogma that faces his followers today.

My personal experiences are that, personal. My own. I don't need to "prove" to you anything. I'm not asking you to do so either. I take you at your word that you believe in Christ. I assume by your posting that you are a fundamental Christian. However, you will never bring me around to your way of thinking. I do not use fear or bullying and I try to stay away from logical fallacies in my way of expressing myself. Well - I try not to do so. No one's perfect.

You simply stating that I'm slandering the name of Christ is an opinion. Since it seems you are the only one here doing so...

As to letting this go off into silence??? This really must be an ego thing for you, huh? So let me guess, if you get the last word in you win, right? That sarcasm flew right over your head. So let me spell it out for you. I ended in it also.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is a role model, his actions were dictated by a higher power, his words were recorded and remembered by witnesses and penned in red so that there is not much mistake of whose words are whose.

I call myself a Christian because Jesus is my guide... I usually fail miserably

his words were recorded? by the disciples 40 to 100 years after the supposed death of christ. and why in the letters of saint paul does he not seem to know the stories of jesus? saint paul's letters make no mention of any miracles Jesus performed, his trial before a Roman official, nor to Jerusalem as the place of execution not even the place of birth, and paul is a contemporary of jesus?

so tell me, how with several decades of gap before the books were written can you consider it the unchanged word of god?

reply to post by drgrantdiz


The word of God can be sumed up in Christs two commandments...

I think a few lines can be preserved accurately for a century honestly... its not like they are complicated.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by drgrantdiz

 

The word of God can be sumed up in Christs two commandments...

I think a few lines can be preserved accurately for a century honestly... its not like they are complicated.

exactly you think they have been preserved accuaratly but have no way to prove that this is what happened. Since the bible was not transcribed till so long after the death of jesus. Not only is is possible that the stories grew bigger and grander and this time.... it's pretty likely. So jesus's miracles, his virgin birth (which does not even appear is every gospel) are likely productsof the story growing word to mouth which is why the seem so ridiculous and make believe

reply to post by drgrantdiz


You didn't actually read what i said did you?

yes i did, you said you think they can be perserved because they are not complicated.

I say it doesn't matter since reality seems to imply that the bible is just a load of bull# stories that grew in the telling. And if one thing in the bible is fake, that invalidates the reliability of the entire book.

reply to post by drgrantdiz


The bible isn't one book... And who is to say what is written about is "fake"?

No one was there... but the question is, why would these people who wrote these books lie about what they saw... or heard?

Of course there are some stories at that are questionable... but calling the entire book "fake"?

I wouldn't go that far...

I believe a message from an important person in history could very well have been preserved...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by drgrantdiz

 

The bible isn't one book... And who is to say what is written about is "fake"?

No one was there... but the question is, why would these people who wrote these books lie about what they saw... or heard?

Of course there are some stories at that are questionable... but calling the entire book "fake"?

I wouldn't go that far...

I believe a message from an important person in history could very well have been preserved...

"No one was there" and why would they write it down? IDK Because hundreds of years ago they believed a bunch of crazy ideas like the world being flat and the sun orbiting the earth. This stuff was written down and was widely believed and yet it doesn't make it true does it?

it's not going to far to call the bible fake, look at the stories from it and tell me that from a logical point of view you believe in talking snakes, samson the superhero, virgin birth, or a massive boat carrying two of every animal including the ones from landmasses not discovered such as polar bears

reply to post by drgrantdiz


like i said... some stories are questionable...

Having a following makes you no more like Christ than the poison punch drinkers looking for spaceships. Do you heal the blind, sick, or walk on water? Can you say to a man stretch out your hand and it be healed? Can you raise yourself from the dead? What real hope that isn't vanity of this world do you give to the hopeless without Christ? You boast of yourself making yourself like God in error.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Would you ever consider that the very same abilities lay latent within your own DNA?
The Kingdom of Heaven lies Within.
For thousands of years They have taken His words and made Us believe We were nothing without Him, but He is a part of Us and that powerless separation couldn't be further from the truth. Why would GOD ever separate from Us??
Quantum Physics isn't just science.

No where, absolutely no where does it say that the bible is the unerring word of god. This is something Christianity made up in it's quest to convert everyone. There is not one example in the bible's 66 books where it states so. Not even 2Timothy's scripture, which is most often cited, states that inexplicably.

There is no evidence to support the fact that people thought the world was flat. In any part of history. In fact, Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates all had lengthy discussions as to the world being round.

It doesn't matter if a man known as Jesus Christ once existed. He exists now. However, allegorical that may be. So, I do believe, that there is a "Christ Consciousness" that exists.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

The Dalai Lama, not a perfect being. Still dead, still in the grave.

What the hell are you talking about?

He's very much alive.

There is but one Christ. There have been many Dalai's. Big difference.

You really find hope in your opinion of being regurgitated into this vain life over and over again regardless of the truth of the life of Christ?

Yeppers! Very much so. It's what he taught, and what he was talking about. "You must be born again." And you know what?

I'M. NOT. AFRAID.

edit on 23-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Along with being born again we must shed this corruptible and put on the incorruptible. Jesus obviously did not teach fleshly reincarnation.