Claiming the Ascended Masters for Your Own

This is an issue that really gets me riled up. I'm very interested in theology, mythology, and spiritual studies. I study what Christ said and did. I believe in Christ's message and that he lived and a massive movement resulted by his unfair death. However, why do I have to be Christian to believe and be saved by Christ? Why is it necessary for me to be told how to believe? What to believe?

I study Buddhism. Do I need to be a Buddhist to attempt to achieve the perfect state of being? Do I need to be a Buddhist to read about this amazing man? Why is it necessary to join the religion to understand and learn his techniques?

Why can't I study and respect Muhammad's message to his people? To gain an understanding and grasp on how and why they think so differently from myself?

I honor all beliefs and systems of faith. This is the road to our salvation. Ourselves. We have it within us to rise above materialism and greed, bigotry and separation. These great people above us showed us that it possible to change. But everyone is looking up and expecting somebody or something else to swoop in and save the day. Why? When we can do it ourselves?

I study paganism and wicca. This automatically put me in category for some Christians. Where the gleefully tell me how they are saved and I'm going to suffer and rot in hell.

But I ask you, what do I have to fear from Christ? He is more like me than you. After all, Christ had a coven. It even numbered thirteen. His circle was taught the mysteries of his teachings. In the same exact manner that covens do. Christ performed miracles. He healed the blind, the sick, walked on water, and more. How is this any different from a pagan or wiccan performing magick? Christ vehemently defended the poor and sick. He danced with them, drank with them, and showed them hope.

Why is it that religions spring up around these ascended masters? The tragic consequences are there for everyone to see. Suddenly, something that was meant to be an oral tradition that grows and changes as people and society does - becomes and unchangeable book of dogmatic monotheism. What? Perhaps, for control? To modify and adapt new movements that spring up in the larger population maybe?

How many great minds, ascended masters have we missed because most of the world can't get past a book telling them how to think?

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

I believe in Christ's message

This right here makes you christian. Just that you believe. Believing changes your spirit. A jew can be a christian, a muslim can be a christian and a buddhist can be a christian even hindu, if you believe in him and keep his commandments you belong to him.

The first christians were jews, the gentiles didn't join the club till about 15 years later. You don't have to call yourself a christian but it is what you are in spirit.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


Yes you are correct.... we are supposed to do as they do..... not worship them...

If others think that's impossible.... they are not saved and they will never ascend....Y13.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Hah. What fun! I have NEVER been called Christian before. You made me giggle. Thank you for the response.

I wonder, if I am a Christian, what kind of Christian am I? I only ask because I use the tarot, I Ching, runes, I meditate, channel, collect crystals and all that witchy stuff.

Christian Spiritualist? Christian Seer. Christian Pagan, Christian Soothesayer.

LOL LOL LOL I'm creating oxymoron's....

I agree with the notion that I should not have to be a part of the religious group in order to be taught or learn what these masters offer to us. I firmly believe that the God is the same while the story is told in a lanuguage relevant to the audience. IMO, The intention of the seeker is the only factor that can prevent as well as cause the enlightenment you seek.

Should the stories be true, of these masters who lived at higher levels than most men, then it stands to reason that an establishment of man which does not understand the power would have a fear of that power. Either because is disagrees with their beliefs or because in the wrong hands it could reveal their weakness and lack. I feel that even when you are a part of one of these groups the full truth may be withheld due to fear of the leaders that some one might grasp ahold of the truth and reveal them for the liars which most men are.

It is an attempt to control mans ability. Should you ever attain the level of the masters, other men will do the same with your legacy.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Hah. What fun! I have NEVER been called Christian before. You made me giggle. Thank you for the response.

I wonder, if I am a Christian, what kind of Christian am I? I only ask because I use the tarot, I Ching, runes, I meditate, channel, collect crystals and all that witchy stuff.

Christian Spiritualist? Christian Seer. Christian Pagan, Christian Soothesayer.

LOL LOL LOL I'm creating oxymoron's....

Well if you believe in Christ's teachings you shouldn't do any of those. That stuff doesn't even matter, ultimately it's nonsense. I tried all that junk years ago in my agnostic days just because i could, right down to ouija boards and numerology.

There are evil things in this world, and they can use those things as a gateway into you. Evil things like Demons (Nephilim spirits) that want your body because God destroyed theirs in the Flood.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

Hah. What fun! I have NEVER been called Christian before. You made me giggle. Thank you for the response.

I wonder, if I am a Christian, what kind of Christian am I? I only ask because I use the tarot, I Ching, runes, I meditate, channel, collect crystals and all that witchy stuff.

I have studied all those things, too, and I also believe that all of those masters are worthy examples, and should be honored as such.

You are a Christian in spirit; you needn't "call" yourself anything. You are a human being who has educated yourself in many different traditions.

Christ studied with the Essenes and Buddhists, and was recognized as a sublimely adept master himself. St Issa to the Buddhists.

Those who want harmony and the better good for all, for EVERYONE equally, are living in the Spirit that Christ taught.
Namaste, sister
Brightest blessings
Peace be with you.

Oh yeah...and Star and Flag (forgot to add the ATS term for solidarity)

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


Maybe Christian-Mystic or Christian-Kabbahlist

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


I am inclined to agree with lonewolf. There is no real reason to practice such things if one truly believes in Christ. Nevertheless, we all fall short committing sins that aren't necessary but gladly there is forgiveness for it all in the name of Jesus. Only, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the exception so if your faith in Christ pushes you to love others, to do good and be good then wherewith can I speak against you?

However, it must be known that there is no comparison between Jesus and any other. Equating Jesus to just another sinner like all the buddhas and muhammads and cult/coven leader spiritualists may mean that, truly, one perhaps believes God exists, so to does Satan and his devils, but not that one trusts in God in truth. If your faith for salvation isn't in Christ then know too that no sinner has the power to raise himself from the dead. There is no saving one's self without the grace of God through faith in Jesus according to the scripture one says one believes in so here we must draw the line between "to believe" and "to trust in."

Christ himself says to Thomas, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Do you really trust Christ or are you lying in an effort to gain the favor of others?

Paul says to the Corinthians, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Are you of the faith or are you of something else?

The Word shall be the judge when the time comes but this, don't lie to yourself about what you believe and who you follow for the sake of appearances and the praises of men. That in and of itself is a great danger to personal growth. Be true to yourself, to your foundation, and if that foundation be found to be cracked and/or built upon instability then move.

You have eyes and ears, I would that you would hear and see what the Spirit of God is telling you about yourself and where you stand in true relationship with him.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Hi HeFrippedMeOff. First, you allude to indicating that I am lying and then you continue on giving me a sermon?

I am not going to get pulled into a pointless discussion on the merit of what I write. After all, no matter how much I might tell you that I am sincere, your mind is already made up isn't? Okay, I must reply. It is not in my nature to back down in any type of forum discussion. Unless I'm completely wrong in my way of thinking. I usually then, auto correct myself.

I've already stated in my OP that I am not Christian. However, I was vastly amused when a member here posted that I am. In fact, I went so far as to liken myself to the exact opposite of Christianity. I don't look at Christ as a God. However, like the title the OP suggests, I do look to Christ as an ascended master, whose consciousness still effects the world today. I look at Christ as the man he was. I don't glorify him and change his status to a deity. I don't identify with that sort of thinking anymore. Although, at one time I was very immersed in the idea of Gods and Goddesses.

I have studied Christ's message, I know about his life - as I just like most - grew up around grand-parents and other family who are Christian. I celebrate Christmas, Easter, and knew how Christians viewed those holidays. I also knew how pagans viewed those correlating holidays. You don't go through life without a basic understanding of what Christianity is living in America. I have read about Christ from differing points of view, and as much as I could muddle through in the bible. (It's very tedious.)

I'd also like to address your concern that I might be "trying to impress people so they will like me." Please refrain from patronizing me, belittling me, and expressing false concern for me. I don't know you and you don't me, and frankly the disingenuous sentiment falls flat. I am a big girl, in her thirties and I am quite sure that I am able to write and speak as I wish, about anything I wish. If I am trying to fit in, as you say, with my posting style and content (which supposedly is why you think I am lying) what business is it of yours? Why should you care whether or not, being new to the site, I am trying to impress people?

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

However, why do I have to be Christian to believe and be saved by Christ?

You don't have to be "christian" to believe in what Jesus said... Anyone who tells you that you do, is selling something

Love God...

And

Love thy neighbour as yourself... in doing so... You're also loving God...

Its really that simple

reply to post by Akragon


Jesus is a role model, his actions were dictated by a higher power, his words were recorded and remembered by witnesses and penned in red so that there is not much mistake of whose words are whose.

I call myself a Christian because Jesus is my guide... I usually fail miserably

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is a role model, his actions were dictated by a higher power, his words were recorded and remembered by witnesses and penned in red so that there is not much mistake of whose words are whose.

I call myself a Christian because Jesus is my guide... I usually fail miserably

Good for you...

Call yourself whatever you wish... I was saying you don't need a label to believe in his words,..

Church is not a requirement to believe in his words... nor is joining any such establishment...

Thats why i said... Anyone who tells you that you "have to be christian" to believe in Jesus' words is selling something...

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

However, it must be known that there is no comparison between Jesus and any other. Equating Jesus to just another sinner like all the buddhas and muhammads and cult/coven leader spiritualists may mean that, truly, one perhaps believes God exists, so to does Satan and his devils, but not that one trusts in God in truth.

WHOA!!
Dude.

Are you unaware that Jesus studied with the Essenes and Buddhists? That his mother was a Master in the Essene mysticism sect? That he grew up with the Essenes in Egypt until the fam went to Passover, and then he left to go East, to study with the Magi? Do you not know about St Issa?

Look it up, please. For your own sake. Look it up.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus is a role model, his actions were dictated by a higher power, his words were recorded and remembered by witnesses and penned in red so that there is not much mistake of whose words are whose.

I call myself a Christian because Jesus is my guide... I usually fail miserably

Good for you...

Call yourself whatever you wish... I was saying you don't need a label to believe in his words,..

Church is not a requirement to believe in his words... nor is joining any such establishment...

Thats why i said... Anyone who tells you that you "have to be christian" to believe in Jesus' words is selling something...

hey that's cool... I guess it kinda bites really that it is in our nature to be associated with something... heck any more than two people working together is an association of some sort.

besides it's a good way to spread the good news, it's been around quite some time, other things have come and gone.

I believed Jesus first, then I came to the conclusion that I too was a believer in Christ.

this is a "good" union we have established I am more than glad to associate myself with these peoples establishments... they run along the lines of what one comes to (wait for it) "Naturally"

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Hi HeFrippedMeOff. First, you allude to indicating that I am lying and then you continue on giving me a sermon?

I am not going to get pulled into a pointless discussion on the merit of what I write. After all, no matter how much I might tell you that I am sincere, your mind is already made up isn't? Okay, I must reply. It is not in my nature to back down in any type of forum discussion. Unless I'm completely wrong in my way of thinking. I usually then, auto correct myself.

[...]

I'd also like to address your concern that I might be "trying to impress people so they will like me." Please refrain from patronizing me, belittling me, and expressing false concern for me. I don't know you and you don't me, and frankly the disingenuous sentiment falls flat. I am a big girl, in her thirties and I am quite sure that I am able to write and speak as I wish, about anything I wish. If I am trying to fit in, as you say, with my posting style and content (which supposedly is why you think I am lying) what business is it of yours? Why should you care whether or not, being new to the site, I am trying to impress people?

edit on 22-3-2012 by CirqueDeTruth because: spelling errors

Lie # 1: "I believe in Christ's message"
You obviously don't if you feel he is not the only begotten son of God who died on the cross and in three days was raised again refusing the logic and history of the movement after ie live men don't die for dead men.

Lie # 2: "I honor all beliefs and systems of faith."
You dishonor Christ, his believers, and all those who seek stable truth when you spout such things in order to give the appearance that you aren't offending anyone, but you are.

Lie #3: We can save ourselves. In some of your other threads, and alluded to in this one, you believe in us saving ourselves but we have no power over death. There is no saving ones self.

Lie #4:"But I ask you, what do I have to fear from Christ? He is more like me than you. After all, Christ had a coven. It even numbered thirteen. His circle was taught the mysteries of his teachings. In the same exact manner that covens do. Christ performed miracles. He healed the blind, the sick, walked on water, and more. How is this any different from a pagan or wiccan performing magick? Christ vehemently defended the poor and sick. He danced with them, drank with them, and showed them hope. "

Judge me? Christ is more like you according to you and your natural knowledge than like any sermon bearer who only gave you the Words of God, not judging you but letting you judge yourself by the Word? How very intolerant, disrespectful, and misunderstood of you.

Having a following makes you no more like Christ than the poison punch drinkers looking for spaceships. Do you heal the blind, sick, or walk on water? Can you say to a man stretch out your hand and it be healed? Can you raise yourself from the dead? What real hope that isn't vanity of this world do you give to the hopeless without Christ? You boast of yourself making yourself like God in error.

Point #5: Are the letters of the apostles to the Churches or their first hand writings of Christ life in the Gospels just oral tradition? Did they not live and edify the people with hope in word, and deed? Is the life and truth of Christ dogmatic, without reason, not able to be tried and tested to see if it be true or not or do you rail on Christ because of the traditions of men and their own hypocrisy? Is Christ hypocrite?

Point #6: If you are such a big girl, in her 30's, and "self-actualized" you wouldn't be condemning me for my speech, regardless of what it is, while claiming you can write and speak as you wish. Double-standard much!?

I don't have to know you to be genuine, I do care about your salvation, I want you to see the truth for yourself and for that I know exposing cracks in foundations stings but sometimes the necessary love is the kind that sharpens us as friction happens. I am not patronizing you. The truth is important to me. Your salvation is important to me and I would rather you be completely hot or cold about Christ and true to yourself than to lie to yourself about how close you are in relationship with our Father as is in Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

However, it must be known that there is no comparison between Jesus and any other. Equating Jesus to just another sinner like all the buddhas and muhammads and cult/coven leader spiritualists may mean that, truly, one perhaps believes God exists, so to does Satan and his devils, but not that one trusts in God in truth.

WHOA!!
Dude.

Are you unaware that Jesus studied with the Essenes and Buddhists? That his mother was a Master in the Essene mysticism sect? That he grew up with the Essenes in Egypt until the fam went to Passover, and then he left to go East, to study with the Magi? Do you not know about St Issa?

Look it up, please. For your own sake. Look it up.

Do you not realize that all the knowledge you just presented in no way makes those men the equal of the Christ of God in deed or in truth?

What other has lived a sinless life? Allowed himself to die on the cross for the sins of the world? Rose from the grave in 3 days? What other messiah's following did not disband at his death?

Do you seriously believe there is Christ's equal in all the world because what you just said?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

I don't have to know you to be genuine, I do care about your salvation, I want you to see the truth for yourself and for that I know exposing cracks in foundations stings but sometimes the necessary love is the kind that sharpens us as friction happens. I am not patronizing you. The truth is important to me. Your salvation is important to me and I would rather you be completely hot or cold about Christ and true to yourself than to lie to yourself about how close you are in relationship with our Father as is in Jesus Christ.

What a load of hooey.
You don't care about her salvation. You care about being pious and argumentative. How 'bout you just worry about your own image, and check those cracks in your own foundations. Find a library.

She's not interested. Walk away.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Do you seriously believe there is Christ's equal in all the world because what you just said?

Right now, you mean?
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, for one.
and Thich Nhat Hanh maybe.

There have been evolved souls, perfected souls, come and go for millennia. In my opinion, they might eve be the SAME perfected soul, who returns from time to time.

I never said Christ was "just a guy", I also am fine with believing he arrived AS AN ADVANCED, PERFECTED soul, where most folks must take the slow road of hundreds of incarnations before they TOO become perfected.

Get with the program.