Why do so many people have an issue with the TSA?

reply to post by Gab1159


I'm honestly not trying to twist your words, but I will admit to reacting strongly to some of your verbiage in the initial post. And if I implied that I thought you were attacking American citizens directly rather than our leaders, I apologize. I know you weren't.

In any case, this is the best I can tell you. A lot has gone on since 9/11 that I do not agree with. A lot of things do concern me. I'm no more a fan of our government than apparently you are. But all of that being said, I can tell you that from a practical level, I am not living in a police state. Maybe you could go through the various constituent factors that presumably define a police state and find some example where the US fits the bill. This reminds me of people who read a psychological checklist of symptoms and come to the horrifying conclusion that they suffer from any number of mental disorders.

That said, I must also say that you have raised my awareness on several points that I will be researching further, and for that, I do sincerely thank you.

The problem I have with it is they completely remove common sense. They are strip searching kids and old ladies. They do this in the name of political correctness.

Do you want to know the safest airline around? El Al. And guess what? They PROFILE! They have no problem singling out a an Arab over an old lady.

If somebody is shot in Harlem, you don't go out to Martha's Vineyard and look for rich white people, you look for black people within Harlem. It's not racist, it's common sense and greatly improves your odds. The FBI has had profilers for years. They invade and harass the wrong people in the name of NOT hurting the feelings of other ethnic groups. Furthermore, we don't need the TSA. 9/11 was orchestrated and it wasn't by 19 Arab hijackers. Most of them have been found alive.

If you are willing to give up your freedom in exchange for security, you deserve neither.

Originally posted by camus154
reply to post by Gab1159

 

I'm honestly not trying to twist your words, but I will admit to reacting strongly to some of your verbiage in the initial post. And if I implied that I thought you were attacking American citizens directly rather than our leaders, I apologize. I know you weren't.

In any case, this is the best I can tell you. A lot has gone on since 9/11 that I do not agree with. A lot of things do concern me. I'm no more a fan of our government than apparently you are. But all of that being said, I can tell you that from a practical level, I am not living in a police state. Maybe you could go through the various constituent factors that presumably define a police state and find some example where the US fits the bill. This reminds me of people who read a psychological checklist of symptoms and come to the horrifying conclusion that they suffer from any number of mental disorders.

That said, I must also say that you have raised my awareness on several points that I will be researching further, and for that, I do sincerely thank you.

I'm happy such a debate can end, usually it goes on and on and on. I'm sorry for not making myself clear enough at first, I might have worded some thing wrong (english isn't my native language).

In my opinion, that is why ATS is so great, you get to see many points of view, and I have yet to find another place where you can have these kinds of open debates. I finally understand your point of view, I'm happy I can include it in the general picture I'm trying to make of it all. When I think of it, I can agree to some degree that the police state might not be fully implemented yet, but I really see the players making their moves towards it, and I wish you do avoid it. With the recent laws Obama signed, it seems like the cards are about to be played, but again, people have been saying the NWO is coming for ages now. I might be wrong, I hope.

The reason I follow so much of what's going in the United States is just that I do really care for what's going on there.

Have a good day it's been a pleasure!

reply to post by FoxMulder91


I agree with you! I think TSA is doing the best they can to protect all of us! I only hope they will be doing the same thing with Trains. My life was threatened on Amtrak back in Sept-2006. There was no security on the Train, so I just moved away from the person and called 911 from the Train. There was a couple on the Train that got up like 3 times and left their backpack in the seat. I finally just got up and followed them and sat in the area they were in. I do not know if they ever went back to the seat they left the backpack.

I have heard hearsay about making this job private and taking TSA out of the airports. I hope that this does not occur. I read another post on here about someone saying that Terrorist may be an inside job. I am certain that Terrorist have infiltraited within jobs here in the US. I only hope that someone in Homeland Security is checking that area of concern.

The people that work for TSA have been through a long process to even get the job. They are not making allot of money. They do their job attempting to protect us and they risk their lives doing so. I am sick of hearing people putting TSA down. I am certain they get no thrills out of having to pat someone down.

OP, your argument is defeated by this bit of news. endthelie.com...

So anyone wanting to do anyone harm only has to pay 100 bucks. This shows the true intentions of the Government in starting all of this in the first place.

And since terrorist are created by the Government, I am sure they will have the money; tax payer money of course, for getting through.

Dolt.

I also have an issue with the people that have an issue with the TSA.

First off, getting into the TSA is not easy. I tried it myself and got into the final phases before realizing it wasn't quite my thing, and then ducked out of the process. The oral interviews are tougher than that of some police departments (I've tried a couple of those as well). They consist of (at least mine, anyway) you being stuffed into a little room with 3 or 4 TSA interviewers who drill you with a ton of questions, which seemed like 100, but I think was probably significantly fewer. I managed to do rather well at my interview, but I was sweating balls. I've passed three oral teams consisting of three people per team in police department interviews with ease compared to this.

Anyway, they're federal agents, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, if you want to fly (anywhere in the United States), you submit to their rules and screenings. It is being done to keep everybody safe. I've worked for private security companies in the past, and I cannot imagine private security doing any better than the TSA can do, for many reasons. TSA agents aren't half the bums and "rent-a-cop" (I hate that phrase. Technically, private security are rent-a-cops) thugs you believe them to be. As I said before they are federal agents, have earned that title and deserve to be respected as such. I'm not saying there's no bad apples, as you've obviously seen reports about agents that abuse their powers and whatnot. I know a few agents and believe me, the only thing on their mind is keeping everybody safe.

I don't get what the big deal is either. I would gladly submit to any screening or pat down they wanted to give me. Everybody should simply comply with the TSA and accept the fact that there ARE people who do want to do harm to the US and citizens, which is why the TSA is there in the first place. The only way to accomplish their mission is to of course scan everybody that intends to fly. Because, after all, selecting only people that "look like terrorists" would just be something else to bitch about.

My two cents...

Originally posted by Razor84
I also have an issue with the people that have an issue with the TSA.

First off, getting into the TSA is not easy. I tried it myself and got into the final phases before realizing it wasn't quite my thing, and then ducked out of the process. The oral interviews are tougher than that of some police departments (I've tried a couple of those as well). They consist of (at least mine, anyway) you being stuffed into a little room with 3 or 4 TSA interviewers who drill you with a ton of questions, which seemed like 100, but I think was probably significantly fewer. I managed to do rather well at my interview, but I was sweating balls. I've passed three oral teams consisting of three people per team in police department interviews with ease compared to this.

Anyway, they're federal agents, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, if you want to fly (anywhere in the United States), you submit to their rules and screenings. It is being done to keep everybody safe. I've worked for private security companies in the past, and I cannot imagine private security doing any better than the TSA can do, for many reasons. TSA agents aren't half the bums and "rent-a-cop" (I hate that phrase. Technically, private security are rent-a-cops) thugs you believe them to be. As I said before they are federal agents, have earned that title and deserve to be respected as such. I'm not saying there's no bad apples, as you've obviously seen reports about agents that abuse their powers and whatnot. I know a few agents and believe me, the only thing on their mind is keeping everybody safe.

I don't get what the big deal is either. I would gladly submit to any screening or pat down they wanted to give me. Everybody should simply comply with the TSA and accept the fact that there ARE people who do want to do harm to the US and citizens, which is why the TSA is there in the first place. The only way to accomplish their mission is to of course scan everybody that intends to fly. Because, after all, selecting only people that "look like terrorists" would just be something else to bitch about.

My two cents...

Well razor, I think the "issue" is that prior to a fake war on 'terror' that we started, we as Americans were not subject to it. Americans like their personal space....and the TSA invades that space on authority gained illlegitimately.

OR something very close to that.

The simplest way to defeat the TSA and blow up an airliner is to pay someone IN THE INSIDE the bucks and hope he accepts: probably the cleaning crew, airline mechanic, airport security personal. One person with the drive to commit this atrocity and with the right knowledge is 1 million times more likely to succeed than some douchebag wannabe terrrorist.

You can have a gazillion TSA agents walking around the airport terminals like complete retards...at the tax payers expense of course, a million cancer causing screening machines.....AND STILL BOOOOOOMMMM!

You idiots!!!!!!!!!!!! Security is an illusion. Just make sure(impossible) someone like an insurance fraudster or government contractor doesn't want to blow you up badely enough.

(I have to spell everything out for you to understand?)

First I'd like to add to what people have said about Israel's airport security.

They don't have the new body scanners and they have never had an incident in 30 years. Passengers don't have to take their belts or shoes off and every flight has an armed guard on board. They profile. Their system is a lot more efficient.

Flawless Airline Security on Israeli Planes

They are going to soon institute finger and iris scans which is bad if you ask me.

And this clip in a nutshell explains what happened when the underwear bomber boarded the flight and Michael Chertof's conflict of interest with the body scanners. They were waiting in the wings in anticipation of the underwear bomber.

Chertoff and Company - The Cover Up (Body Scanners)

Its all just conditioning...to accept police state gradually...one day sheeple will realize this country is slowly closing its fist around their throats...you know, the ones used to express what they want..without being arrested or beaten..

Gov could take that money and workforce and build a human fence on the friggin borders. Fondle the people that try to sneak in the country...oh but that would be profiling and they won't do that. My bad.

Big brother loves citizens who love the state. Congrats, you made their "nice" list.

Originally posted by koder
Its all just conditioning...to accept police state gradually...one day sheeple will realize this country is slowly closing its fist around their throats...you know, the ones used to express what they want..without being arrested or beaten..

Yes this is what is happening because people are naive and loose with their money. You have to work 3 jobs just to raise a family because corporations and big government sleep in the same bed. They are milking people for the last penny and when government eventually fails due to intentional incompetance, they will shove the digital currency down our throats, along with digital ids and a world dictatorship.

Not long now, america has about 16 trillion defecit and europe is sinking due to PIGGS mismanagement. I say a maximum of 5 years is a conservative estimate. Much more likely within the next 2-3 years!! One person cannot change the world...it takes a group effort of knowledgeable folks.

Have you ever wondered if those of us who play nice with Big Brother are the smart ones?

Think about it the next time you call us "sheeple". Keyser Soze, is what I'm saying.

Originally posted by camus154
Have you ever wondered if those of us who play nice with Big Brother are the smart ones?

Think about it the next time you call us "sheeple". Keyser Soze, is what I'm saying.

Real life and movies are not the same thing, and it seems you are grossely underestimating the resolve of those with trillions to do what they please. The money that gets printed during a bull cycle does not magically vanish during a bear cycle.

The stock market boom and bust is created to make a few hands immensely rich and everyone else much poorer. A revolution starts with good information and good target acquisition.....not with some lunatic shooting his ak-47 in times square.

reply to post by camus154


will you will be playing along when they say that everyone else is an enemy of the state and must be eliminated?

Do you think they want a quasi-dictatorship?

Matt:"No bill leave the rest of the civil liberties alone, we are good."

Bill: "you sure because that guy still isn't waving his flag hard enough. and that other guy isn't mourning his leaders untimely death enough. We could just kill them. We have built some kick ass new huge ovens in which we could eliminate hundreds at a time."

Matt: well....."gosh let's give it a try, just a few hundred. Let's start with everyone that is gay and just move up to the Mormons, they give me the creeps and don't practice the state endorsed religion."

Bill: "no matt, let's start with the handicapped and the lame, they are not representative of the master American race, then we move on to the spics and 'n-word's."

Matt: ok, but you have to clean it up after. I had to mop up the blood from the city limits check point after that guy went ape when Andrew stuck his finger inside his daughter and we beat him bloody.

Bill: cool beans. you got it bro. Hail Obama Zieg Heil !!

Matt: Zieg Heil !!

the end

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Real life and movies are not the same thing, and it seems you are grossely underestimating the resolve of those with trillions to do what they please. The money that gets printed during a bull cycle does not magically vanish during a bear cycle.

Yes, yes, of course you're right. Please.....never mind me.

reply to post by FoxMulder91
First of I don't fly, having worked on heavy aircraft in the military, I know how long it takes to turn a big bird around for flight and the scary thing about the airlines is their turn around time. However I will tell you why I have a problem with the TSA, even though I will never encounter them in an airport. tHe Federal governement has over step the rules of common sense here. The forth amendment comes to mind, (The Fourth Amendment proscribes unreasonable seizure of any person, person's home (including its curtilage) or personal property without a warrant. A seizure of property occurs when there is meaningful interference by the government with an individual's possessory interests,[24][25] such as when police officers take personal property away from an owner to use as evidence. The Amendment also protects against unreasonable seizure of their persons, including a brief detention.[26]

A seizure does not occur just because the government questions an individual in a public place. The exclusionary rule would not bar voluntary answers to such questions from being offered into evidence in a subsequent criminal prosecution. The person is not being seized if his freedom of movement is not restrained.[27][28] The government may not detain an individual even momentarily without reasonable, objective grounds, with few exceptions. His refusal to listen or answer does not by itself furnish such grounds.[29]

A person is seized within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment only when by means of physical force or show of authority his freedom of movement is restrained, and in the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would believe that he was not free to leave.[29] As long as the police do not convey a message that compliance with their requests is required, the courts will usually consider the police contact to be a "citizen encounter" which falls outside the protections of the Fourth Amendment.[30] If a person remains free to disregard questioning by the government, there has been no intrusion upon the person's liberty or privacy under the Fourth Amendment — there has been no seizure.[29] The government may not detain an individual even momentarily without reasonable and articulable suspicion, with a few exceptions.

Where society's need is great and no other effective means of meeting the need is available, and intrusion on people's privacy is minimal, checkpoints toward that end may briefly detain motorists)

However In the Future, whats to stop the government from having TSA at the Bus or train station stations (bombing in Spain and England) how about having TSA check point at every state border to protect against car bombs. why not rolling TSA agents to check people on the street. When we are willing to give up a little bit of our freedoms, wxpect to lose more.

We here in America had expected a little more freedom than most others in the world, but soon this will change because it has become more important to vote for American Idol than to vote for people to represent us in washington. Its sad that more people know what happened on surivor than what is happening in the world.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
will you will be playing along when they say that everyone else is an enemy of the state and must be eliminated?

Brother, we're ALL playing along. Don't you know this is just a ride?

reply to post by FoxMulder91


Because it's..

Ineffective
Invasive
Insulting
Degrading
Expensive
Unconstitutional
Incompetent
Barbaric
Immune from legal action
Dehumanized

I could go on and on.. Fact of the matter is they've never caught a "terrorist" .. and I'm not even sure if the original "terrorist" on 9/11 even existed. I do know however that flying went from a relaxed affair to a groping, prodding, cattle herding nightmare. No matter how big the "threat" is.. we should never abandon our freedoms, liberties, and dignity just for the luxury of "feeling safe"..