Elke's Warning

reply to post by bisonpowers


Sorry but you are living in a dream, indoctrinated,brain washed system that has captured you completely. I'm an X Pat of the UK and I see where you are coming from but you need to look beyond the veil and see the truth.
I assume you are middle class hence, your need to dismiss what is really going on.

I'm too old to argue or debate it with you but I really believe you are kidding yourself. Sorry!

reply to post by MidnightTide

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

In all honestly, the only way some of these people are going to learn is the hard way.

Probably true....and from the looks of things, they wont have to wait long.

Confronting The VP May Be Impolite. Is It A Crime?

The U.S. Supreme Court hears arguments Wednesday in a case involving the arrest of a Colorado man who was thrown in jail after telling Vice President Cheney in 2006 that the Bush administration's policies in Iraq were "disgusting."

Environmental consultant Steven Howards is suing the Secret Service agents who arrested him, contending that the arrest violated his First Amendment rights because it was nothing more than retaliation for the views he expressed to the vice president. The case pits the need for protecting public officials against the rights of citizens to express their views to the people elected to represent them.

Read the facts of that one.

Even the simple expression of a political opinion against a public official is a crime.

At one time, that used to be thought of as distinctly "American". Now it appears to be a crime.

I wonder where SCOTUS will land on the issue? And if you really think about it, even the fact I have to wonder is quite remarkable.

The trends in our politics...our economics...and even our culture are disturbingly headed in the wrong direction.

Six thousand years of human governance teaches repeated failures in the protections of liberty. So it is very likely that when we finally join the annals of history, among all of the rest of the failures, it may be several hundred years more before people try the experiment anew.

Depressing, isn't it? :shk:

reply to post by quedup


I'm not looking for an argument so don't worry on that front. What do you mean by look beyond the veil? If your referring to the fact that it doesn't really matter who we vote for, the world is run by debt so that the few can control the many and that the UK is still an imperialist nation masquerading as a freedom fighter while it's biggest media outlets serve to reenforce this view on the public and keep us entertained and 'quiet' with plastic TV programs then yes I know.

If your referring to something else then I would like to hear as it could be interesting. I was just making the point that although it could be much much improved, the UK even with all the bull# is not so bad compared to many other countries.

As for the capitalist VS communist thing - I guess I'm more of a libertarian with a tendency to want to help vulnerable people.

reply to post by burntheships


Burntheships, what a powerful video! Why, because she LIVED IT! The three main things I took away from that video was. 1)THEY CONFISCATED GUNS! 2)COMMUNISM IS ANTI-GOD! 3)THEY TOOK OUR LAND! Some of you younger users had better take it to heart what this lady is describing, heck, some of the older user too! As they say "right from the horse's mouth"! Any questions on what the NWO might look like? Watch the video again!

Maybe I am just playing semantics here, but it seems to me like what the woman in the video is talking about, and what so many people on this thread are talking about, is dictatorship, not communism or socialism. If someone comes and takes away your stuff and rations out food and supplies, and you cannot leave, that sounds more like an ism oriented towards dictation (ie telling you what to do, how to do it, etc). Maybe it could be argued that this is totalitarianism. If there is ONE person in charge, barking orders, I would assert that that person is a dictator, and this is exactly what the USSR, China and Cuba have had. What those countries HAVE NOT had is a government that derives its authority from the community. Hell we don't even have that in the United States.

If some people call "communism" the concentration of power into the possession of one individual, or a relatively small group of people, then I do agree that "communism" has sucked, does suck and would suck. However I would add that the word "communism" is a poor choice as a label for that type of socio-economic system. I think the etymology of "communism" suggests that authority comes from the community, which is closer to a republic than a dictatorship. I say this because a community is somewhat like a district; a district is generally the lowest level governmentally-related division of the US, and a community is a group of interacting people living in proximity. A big difference between a district and a community is that the borders of districts are drawn, by a higher authority, with little regard for the cohesion of the people within it, whereas a community is defined by its cohesion.

If a system were to base its political actions on the desires and needs of its communities, then it would be similar to a republic. I would argue that, in terms of accountability to its constituents, this type of system would be even better than a republic, since the interests of communities are more coherent than the interests of districts. This type of system is what I would say deserves the label "communism" because its authority comes from the community.

reply to post by bisonpowers

Originally posted by bisonpowers
I guess I'm more of a libertarian with a tendency to want to help vulnerable people.

Well now that you have said this, our positions can agree. But some of what you say in your posts contradict this characterization.

If you truly see yourself that way, it might benefit you to reconsider some of the 'means' you think get you there.

Originally posted by Captain Beyond
she LIVED IT! The three main things I took away from that video was. 1)THEY CONFISCATED GUNS! 2)COMMUNISM IS ANTI-GOD! 3)THEY TOOK OUR LAND! Some of you younger users had better take it to
heart what this lady is describing, heck, some of the older user too! As they say "right from the horse's mouth"! Any questions on what the NWO might look like? Watch the video again!

Yes, right from the horses mouth. And she was only 16 when she got out,
but what an impression it made on her.

They took the land, they took the guns, and made the
state god. One other thing that stood out to me, they forced them to read the communist
doctrine, and then they expected a loyal follower.

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by loam

 

Your link is garbage, making a big claim with no supporting quotes, and a link that does not say what the article claims it says.

That is the bigger problem, you people keep wanting to blame Obama for the problems created under the GW admin, and by the GW admin.

It is really pathetic, and we will never regain control of our country when so many people keep drinking the right wing propaganda cool-aid.

Humm. Looks to me like Obama is carrying on with systematically taking away people's freedoms, with all of his bills he has signed: ie: NDAA

The Bush family may have done a lot of destructive things, but Obama sure as hell has not brought an end to it either. He's just a right winger in sheeps clothing.

What we have to get out of is this left and right mentality! Please people, they are all in the same camp! They all have the same handlers! Bush=Obama Obama=Bush, get it?????? They are ALL seeking to destroy out constitution! Wake up! Wake up!

reply to post by burntheships


How old is she?

20?

cutie.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

In all honestly, the only way some of these people are going to learn is the hard way.

Probably true....and from the looks of things, they wont have to wait long.

I would give it midway through the second term, if that happens.
If that long...

reply to post by loam


Well the NHS, water and energy bills being socialist in nature are the 'helping vulnerable people' side of my beliefs. I'm not a fan of big government but I choose to except that not every one is capable of looking after themselves and in such cases there should be a safety net to fall on (in my opinion).

After all we don't all have family and we aren't all able to work. I suppose in a strict libertarian society we would depend on charitable people in times of need. I would just prefer to have a stronger safety net than charity - speaking from my own experiences.

But me using the UK was an example of an overall standard of living for all demographics and how communist and capitalist components serve those demographics so that the insensitive is their to drive business, while vulnerable people, on the most part, can have an okay standard of living.

reply to post by burntheships


Thanks for posting this video, burntheships.

I'm convinced that wanting and craving complete power is a sickness.
Crazy is cyclical, but there are two kinds.
The first kind of crazy is wanting to control everything.
The second kind is wanting to believe it can't happen again.

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by burntheships

 

Scary.

People need to see that we are going down a path history has repeated before.

History has been repeating itself for thousands of years, do you really think it's just starting? Everytime it cycles back around it gets worse. Now you get 40 million babies in the U.S. alone being sacrificed to Molech, and WWI and WWII, the atom and hydrogen bombs capable of wiping out millions in a blink of an eye. Nothing new under the sun, just worse than it was before.

I can understand how she feels and the way things have been going it seems that we are headed to a "more controlling state" however the people, mega corporations,and general industries in US is not in no way shape or form going to let things change to that extent. The whole world would have to change if thats the case, and there are many powers around the globe that will not take kindly to this control.

Its our technology that is trapping us, the more we have and advance on the more and more we are easily controlled, just think of the days when there was no internet or cell phone. We as a people do this to ourselfs we create these devices, systems and ideas and others run with them in a whole other direction.

History does repeat itself, there will be more dictators, more wars, more genocide, more famine and more mistakes its in mankinds nature to have these flaws and events.

reply to post by burntheships


I am getting tired of this ism schism.

The vid and lady have some good points, look to the past and you will see the future most times. The fear that binds is the fear that finds itself in binds, left dumbstruck at its scope, jaw dropped, stupefied, frozen in shock, the little fear is not so little after all.

A litany of ism's brought it to a front, a litany can also take it away, but only when in sync will it reverberate and resonate.

Now repeat after me.

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain."

So what are people so afraid of? The unknown off course.

You all so busy dictating and depicting this ism and that ism that you do not see that any ism is the curtain pertaining to the thing at hand, its failures are out of sight and out of mind.

But maybe you should ask yourselfs... What can the three points she made only be brought about by one ism?
Those points being.
1. Confiscated all forms of retaliations and weapons aka guns, aka removed the claws from the cat so it cant scratch back...
2. They were against any other thoughtform other then the state and those that rule it with its rules are absolute in there powers, therefore no other powers or gods before that even the prominent religion of that time Christianity were cut off.
3. They took our land, or means of work, control peoples land, food-sources, and basic living necessities and you control them.

And you have to ask yourself...What can the above only be achieved my one ism? Only by communism, I am afraid that Communism or Socialism is not that special, nor are any of the others.

Does anybody really think that it will be that simple? I am pretty sure all and more of the above points to watch form can be achieved by all isms you can think of. So yes you can take there guns, control there minds, take there land and means away, with capitalism any any other ism or form of government, because like I said. Were looking at the wrong thing here, and maybe we should take a more skeptical approach to it all in-till it has proven itself to be right, and even if it is right...Still be skeptical, but not as much.

The truth seems to be that under any ism or means of government the above points can be achieved, therefore socialism, capitalism, communism, and all other systems made or yet to be made, In the end there all just words used to capture peoples imaginations and minds. And all can and will lead to the same place, that being a bunch of different forms and there names of totalitarianism, or any other word used to describe a concentration of power by a few over the many. The names might change, but will the results? That might be the question to ask yourselves.


Bob Marley was sick of the ism-skism game as well.

We sick an' tired of-a your ism-skism game -
Dyin' 'n' goin' to heaven in-a Jesus' name, lord.
We know when we understand: Almighty god is a living man.
You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can't fool all the people all the time.
So now we see the light (what you gonna do?),
We gonna stand up for our rights! (yeah, yeah, yeah! )

All very interesting, but before anybody does any standing up and fighting for there rights.

They better know what there standing up for...After all the whole mess that the lady in the vid was talking about with the communists and all that...Well it started with people standing up and fighting for there promised or the rights they thought were "right" at the time.

But in time they learned that those rights they at first promoted and stood up for, both with there actions and inaction's, turned out to be the wrong "rights" to stand up for. You see they always like to say somebody else did it and blame it on a boogie man, or figure head, or the times. But the whole thing would of not happened without there consent, there actions and inaction's.

So stand up all you like people, but think twice and look both ways before crossing that road, because there is no magic button that will make everything "right" the world is not that simple. So beware anything that promises to fix everything and make it "right" because there in all likelihood wrong, and selling something.

Hey maybe everybody should just be more picky and choosy when it comes to buying any particular ism, or maybe they should just pick and chose a bit from here and a bit from there, and put it together into whatever tickles there fancy.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by poet1b

 

Originally posted by poet1b

Don't kid yourselves people. It is free market policies that has taken away our land and property rights.

The banks own everything now, due to the con of deregulation. Until people wake up and face this fact, we are doomed.

Perhaps the detail of such an argument is better left for another thread...but allow me to just say how wrong you are... :shk:

Don't confuse fraud with free markets. They are not one in the same.

edit on 21-3-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)

A third world farmer's livelihood is dependent on selling crops he's manually labored to create. Unfortunately the farmer cannot sell his crops for what his family needs to survive because a merchant has dumped genetically modified surplus grain into the market. How advantageous is the "free market" to this third world farmer?

A company develops and thrives with their unique products in America. The company employs thousands and boosts the economy for everyone. The company then moves to a country that it could never have originated in. Financial leverage gives it much freedom in its new nation. The move gives the company a "free market" advantage of slave laborers and lax environmental standards. Stock holders are thrilled.

The problem is that no one has thoroughly outlined a form of government which preserves the sovereignty of people, maintains transparency, prevents corruption of the system, and still addresses a multitude of other problems. Is the "free market" system really better than the old mercantilism?

People like to chastise Nazi Germany but if you objectively compare it to other developed countries, at least before the second world war, it proved to be very successful in many respects. Contemporary critics of Hitler were still grudgingly admirers of what he had done for the nation. It's no wonder, despite the Soviet war with Finland and its invasion of Poland, that the allies presented Germany's annexation of previously stolen/ethnically German lands to be the real threat; thus it was Germany who Britain declared war against and not the Soviet Union. The hypocrisy is that despite the British colonial empire the Allies were still considered good whilst the Axis powers were evil. Even Communism could probably work well if implemented optimally.

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -- Ron Paul

"Communism will come to America but it will not be called Communism." -- Vladimir Lenin

"Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived." -- The Post-War diary of John F. Kennedy, as quoted in Prelude to Leadership (pages 73–74, last two paragraphs).

"Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~ Thomas Jefferson

There is frequently a good counter argument for any possible solution but without a definitive consensus the U.S. will be doomed by the confusion and ignorance of its citizens.

reply to post by burntheships


I would take issue with one thing in the chart.
Where it says How Formed?
For Capitalism it says Revolution/Defensive Military
It should also read:Through mutual consent / by Drafting a Constitution

It is the ONE thing that sets us apart from every other government to have ever been created, without it we can be nothing greater than any other form of government It is the only form of government to invoke the spirit of the individual while guaranteeing their rights in a society.
As our Constitutional rights erode one by one so does our desire and ability to create, to expand our knowledge and to dream. If we do not make drastic changes soon the last of the free human spirit will be crushed and the last chance for hope will go with it.

Originally posted by guohua

But what is foremost in my mind,,,, We had no Rights as a People,,,, I see Obama and his Administration trying to go the way of Socialism.

Name one thing you cannot do today that you could do four years ago.

Or are you just making things up based upon what you hear at Fox New Station?

~braindeadconservatives

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Point taken, and I well agree. Thank you for taking the time to carefully read that,
I did read it, but however missed that very pertinent point.

While I did not create that chart, I did find it a good tool to draw the
comparisons.

I think we can all agree on the one category "not unless you want your head cut off"



ETA: Wanted to quote you ATA, as your comments are profound.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
It should also read:Through mutual consent / by Drafting a Constitution

It is the ONE thing that sets us apart from every other government to have ever been created, without it we can be nothing greater than any other form of government It is the only form of government to invoke the spirit of the individual while guaranteeing their rights in a society.
As our Constitutional rights erode one by one so does our desire and ability to create, to expand our knowledge and to dream. If we do not make drastic changes soon the last of the free human spirit will be crushed and the last chance for hope will go with it.

reply to post by burntheships


The problem isn't communism or socialism or capitalism...it's humans corruption in any system.

YES help the poor. Social mobility in the US and UK is NULL. That means US opportunity is NULL if you're poor. So how do you move up if you can't find a job because your uneducated, and because you don't have a job you don't have money to get education???

Human syndrome is the problem. We're selfish and greedy and extremely corruptible. We have to remove the human intermediates in government and make it an open Internet government with online voting on everything for the people 100% by the people based on popular vote and divide by distance of impact regional and national depending the subject being voted on.

SOCIAL MOBILITY look it up!