South America: The Definitive Geographic Location Of Atlantis

reply to post by nineix


You missed the critical study

This comment frames the question

Most importantly it's been noted that the identification of coc aine in Egyptian mummies needs to be verified by researchers from an independent laboratory. The only Egyptian mummies to have tested positive for coc aine originate from the Munich museum and these samples all passed through Balabanova's laboratory. Whilst it is unlikely, the possibility exists that some of these samples were incorrectly labelled. Unlikely as this may be, such a mislabelling occurred in the UK with samples of cows and sheep brains becoming mixed up resulting in dire consequences for BSE research. It is therefore important that for the identification of coc aine in Egyptian mummies to become accepted that fresh samples from the Munich museum be acquired and tested by an independent laboratory. Until this occurs the possibility of contamination, mislabelling or misidentification of coc aine from these samples remains.

Comment by Balabanova:

Oddly, she found coc aine in only one other group of mummies, her very first batch from the Munich Museum. Their levels were much lower. The Munich mummies are not a homogenous group; their ages and origins vary widely. No other Old World mummies have revealed coc aine. It would be remarkable if these and only these mummies were exposed to the drug and then coincidentally gathered in Munich. A simpler explanation is that they were exposed during modern times after being brought together at the museum. Pathologists don't fully understand how drugs are absorbed into hair, and nobody has even tried to determine if ancient hair can do so. If it can, perhaps these results can best be explained by someone doing coc aine in the Munich Museum mummy room.

So if would seem that there is a need for an independent lab to relook at Balabanova's results

Two attempts have been made to replicate Balabanova's results:

Counsell, D. C., "Intoxicants in Ancient Egypt? Opium, nymphea, coca, and tobacco," in David, Ann Rosalie, ed. Egyptian Mummies and Modern Science, Cambridge University Press, 2008, ISBN 978-0521865791 p.213

None have been able to support her findings

You also brought up the rather tired fringe explanation that scientists would be 'reluctant' to investigate this, Balabanova IS a scientist as are all the other people involved in the studies after the initial report.

Atlantis has already been found. Sadly I thought I found it but seems two other individuals beat me to it by a year.

It is the Eye of Africa.

If you look at the Eye of Africa, you'll notice it has 3 circles, similar to that of what Plato recounted in his books. Also a study of the ground layer between layers of circles showed that it had salt deposits.

There are also intercepting lay-lines that go through the Eye of Africa and pass through the great pyramids.

Someone just posted it earlier on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Any questions just PM me. But the real Atlantis is the Eye of Africa.

Hi Doug,
Great post very well presented. It did lead me to your website were there is alot more detail on the topic and I have bookmarked so I can spend some more time there. Thank you for sharing here on ATS.
brice

very interesting and detailed. are there any archelogic evidence of it?

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


Nah get in line; a very long line of people who think they know where Atlantis lies

Harte you remember Parta and his Atlantis in a post glacial lake in Hungary? He disappeared one day a few months ago, I guess the PTB got him!

reply to post by brice

Thanks Brice! Hopefully more to follow...

-Doug

Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by Harte



Chariots and horses? In South America?

You're dreaming here, or cherrypicking, which is almost the same thing.

Harte

Horses (Equus)continued to evolve and develop for another six million years after Pliohippus and became very successful, spreading throughout North America. At some point some of them crossed into the Old World via the Arctic-Asia land bridge. Then, suddenly, no one is absolutely certain why, between 10,000 and 8,000 years ago, Equus disappeared from North and South America. Various theories have been advanced including destruction by drought, disease, or extinction as a result of hunting by growing human populations. At any rate, the horse was gone from the western hemiphere. The submergence of the Bering land bridge prevented any return migration from the Old World or Asia, and the horse was not seen again on its native continent until the Spanish explorers brought horses by ship in the sixteenth century.

www.discoverseaz.com...

After all the work OP has done, I think deserves more respect in addressing any doubt or objections. Is disgusting the arrogance you show in a lot of threads at the point that i wish ATS had a button that could hide undesired users, lame posts and stuck up (empty headed) individuals.

edit on 20-3-2012 by Telos because: (no reason given)

Frankly, your opinion is far less valuable to me than mine is to you.

Thanks for the info on New World horses though.

Got anything on chariots in the new world dating to the end of the Pleistocene?

As an apologist for the OP, would you care to put forth a theory on how the Athenians (which didn't exist at the time) and their chariots (which didn't exist at the time) were able to defeat an army of South Americans (which didn't exist at the time) and their boatloads of American horses (which didn't exist at the time)?

Lastly, I'm apparently not as easily impressed by size as you are, as far as loads of rubbish go. I don't care if the OP has written a ten-part reference tome on Atlantis - there would be nothing in it I haven't already read.

I read this silly S. American theory over a decade ago. Maybe longer - it's hard to keep track when the fringe merely repeats the same things over and over throughout the years.

Just like everything else, the more time goes by, the worse it smells.

It's not for you to decide who I respect, and I certainly don't care what you "wish" concerning an ignore button.

However, I've said the same thing about the old ignore function right here at ATS in the past.

Harte

You sure have it all figured out! Can't wait for the artifacts and physical evidence of these claims to start pouring in now!

I am so excited that I am going to hold my breath until the truth is finally revealed!

Atlantis is not in South America.

In the 1930s prior to World War II, a German archaeological used Homer's Iliad to find the lost city of Troy, and he did. The Lost City of Troy was found on a hill in a farmers field 40 miles from the coast. Most experts a this time thought this could not be Troy because Troy was a coastal city so his findings were dismissed. Turns out Decades Later when further archaeological excavations were under taken the found the ancient harbor for the city. Turn out the guy really did find the Lost City of Troy.

Now your most likely wonder what Troy and Atlantis have in common, and that would be Homer's Iliad. Both Troy and Atlantis are mention in the Iliad and by following the Iliad we discovered Troy right where Homer said it would be. So according to Homer's Iliad Atlantis lays beyond the Pillars of Hercules. Now there is debate over weather the Pillars of Hercules are some where in Greece or at the Rock of Gibraltar. But if you know your history you'll learn that the Romans learned from the Greeks and the Romans considered Gibraltar to be the Pillars of Hercules so that where they are.

So since we know the Atlantis is beyond the Pillars of Hercules, it means that Atlantis is some where in the Atlantic Ocean. So does this mean that Atlantis is a sunken land mass on the bottom of the Ocean? No. In the early 21st Century a man looking at satellite images looking noticed something Odd along the coast of Southern Spain. It was an ancient bay that had been filled in long ago. Now form the satellite photos you could make out a ringed land formation in the center of this ancient bay, a land formation that matches Atlantis description.

Now based on Homer's Iliad we know that in a single day and night of misfortune Atlantis sank beneath the waves. So these Island in this ancient bay were made of sand, and as anyone who has studied geology know that during an earthquake sandy soil can under go a process know as liquefaction, which will cause anything built on top of it to sink. As we have seen from recent geological events such as the 2004 earthquake that generated the Tsunami and the March 11, 2011 quake that devastated Japan that earthquakes can do more that just knock # over.

Atlantis sank in to the bay during a massive earthquake, this earthquake generated a Tsunami which ended up filling the bay with debris which cut the bay off from the Atlantic. Over the better part of two millenniums (2000 years) the bay was completely filled in and became a tilde marsh.


www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by Harte


Frankly, your opinion is far less valuable to me than mine is to you.

Thanks for the info on New World horses though.

Got anything on chariots in the new world dating to the end of the Pleistocene?

Harte knowledge and intelligence becomes futile when one doesn't have the slightest sense of civility, respect and understanding toward others. In that aspect I can teach you a lot. My opinion shouldn't matter to you more than yours matters to me. We're not here for that. I was just trying to help you overcome that sense of inferiority which you try to hide it behind the so called arrogance. Back to the topic, the info about New World horses was just an illustration, which helps to sustain the factual and not an attempt to feed the false or the fringe. I'm not advocating the theory of Atlantis (despite what are my personal opinions or believes), neither I'm looking for the chariots during and at the end of Pleistocene. Needless to say, if I was unclear about the latest, I would have consulted before hand any of the known archaeological text or just amuse my self with the righteous blabbers of self appointed debunkers in this site.

reply to post by Hanslune


Thank you.

In my searches, I'm finding data on both sides of this like: Determination of Nicotine in hair samples of pre-Columbian mummies

The Above article is dated 2008 and supports your argument.

On the other hand, I also find statements like:

Not the least interesting part of the show [documentary] was a respected Egyptologist Dr Rosalie David, at Manchester University, going back over some of the material from the original tests. RD, a sceptic, was not given access to the mummies from Germany used by Balabanova – though she decided, after several hours in the archives, that most of these were genuine ancient mummies as opposed to modern fakes. However, she ran too a series of tests on three ancient bodies from a museum in Manchester and to her shock these had nicotine in their hair and tissue samples.

In subsequent years other testers found similar results. The greatest interest admittedly came from Svetlana Balabanova’s lab: SB by now seemed to be suffering from an understandable obsession over the matter.

[SB] tested tissue from 134 naturally preserved bodies from an excavated cemetery in Sudan, once part of the Egyptian empire. Although from a later period, the bodies were still many centuries before Columbus discovered the Americas. About a third of them tested positive for nicotine and coc aine.
Balabanova was mystified by the presence of coc aine in Africa but thought she have a way of explaining the nicotine. As well as Egypt and Sudan, she tested bodies from China, Germany and Austria, spanning a period from 3700BC to 1100AD. A percentage of bodies from the other regions also contained nicotine. Egypt 89%, Sudan 90%, China 62.5%, Germany 34%, Austria 100%. [documentary]

The sources for such statements, however, aren't cited, so, without citation to follow up and confirm these assertions in defense of my stance, I'll admit to the feared possibility of my stance sinking into the sea just as mythical Atlantis.

I will, however continue looking for some credible, cited, and properly sourced documentation, and wanted to follow up here with above progress.

There's a number of sources I'm finding that source back to the original 1992 paper, but, as that source is under debate, any source that cites that, and no other later data does me no love.

Currently, I'm attempting to track down this claim that Rosalie David had confirmation.

It's much easier to believe in something you want to believe, or something you've adopted as truth for sure, but, I'm not too keen on those kinds of pitfalls.
Nothing worth having or wanting should be expected to be easy. Should I fail to find any reasonable and acceptable ammunition to further my defense, then, i won't consider it a loss but opportunity to take a harder look at any remaining supporting evidence beyond the coca, nicotine mummies in revision, and potentially even come closer over into the orthodoxy camp.



EDIT/Update pending further data ...

If you look at the Eye of Africa you'll notice it fits all the descriptions by Plato.

Also it said the city disappeared under the sea, but have you ever noticed how a large desert looks like an ocean?

An epic post, s&f. Not withstanding that, perhaps this 'latest' idea is worth some time, and it has been the subject of at least one documentary,

www.msnbc.msn.com...

An extract,

"To solve the age-old mystery, the team analyzed satellite imagery of a suspected submerged city just north of Cadiz, Spain. There, buried in the vast marshlands of the Dona Ana Park, they believe that they pinpointed the ancient, multiringed dominion known as Atlantis."

A link to the NG documentary in part,

www.youtube.com...

Amazing wealth of knowledge you have layed out before us! i read the first few paragraphs and it already looks pretty solid.
But as i saw some guy posted earlier, you do need to find it but thats the other half of this journey . i hope someone gets inspired by this work, or yourself, and head out and have an expedition !

S+F

Going to read all of this!

Very rarely do you see an ATS thread with this much information, clarity, and breakdown..... Very nice thread OP, extremely interesting topic, and thank you for sharing this with all of us.....

S&F

reply to post by smurfy
reply to post by Kriltosthe2nd
reply to post by jhn7537

Thanks guys!

Smurfy, Kriltosthe2nd: Might be interesting to see the site scanned by ground-penetrating radar.

-Doug

reply to post by nineix

Nice work. It has not gone unnoticed.

-Doug

reply to post by Doug Fisher


wow. who are you? i've yet to finish reading this, but your post gives me a funny feeling in my tummy. well written and nice format with resources and photos and everything. tell me, you did a bibliography too, right? to think that you did this for personal fulfillment give me some kind of hope for the future. the only downside is that it's on ATLANTIS! don't get me wrong, i fantasize about atlantis and its lost civilization aplenty, but we need your mind focused on how to get the worlds' sh*t together.

First and foremost, thank you for the thread! S&F. Though lengthy, I found it quite interesting. I have already read over it once, but I’m one of those guys who have to read something twice to get a good feel and a better understanding of the info presented.

As for Plato, the info concerning Atlantic was passed down to him from his Father’s Father’s father, etc… I think he was a great philosopher and a good story teller. I wish there were others to back up his claims. There’s so much missing from history. I wish we had more.

I loved his quotes more than anything. Here are some…

-A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.

-A hero is born among a hundred, a wise man is found among a thousand, but an accomplished one might not be found even among a hundred thousand men.

-A state arises, as I conceive, out of the needs of mankind; no one is self-sufficing, but all of us have many wants.

-All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince.

-All the gold which is under or upon the earth is not enough to give in exchange for virtue.

-All things will be produced in superior quantity and quality, and with greater ease, when each man works at a single occupation, in accordance with his natural gifts, and at the right moment, without meddling with anything else.

-And what, Socrates, is the food of the soul? Surely, I said, knowledge is the food of the soul.

-Any man may easily do harm, but not every man can do good to another.

-Apply yourself both now and in the next life. Without effort, you cannot be prosperous. Though the land be good, You cannot have an abundant crop without cultivation.

-As the builders say, the larger stones do not lie well without the lesser.

-Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another.

-At the touch of love everyone becomes a poet.

-Attention to health is life's greatest hindrance.

-Better a little which is well done, than a great deal imperfectly.

-Courage is a kind of salvation.

-Courage is knowing what not to fear.

-Cunning... is but the low mimic of wisdom.

-Death is not the worst that can happen to men.

-Democracy passes into despotism.

-Democracy... is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder; and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequals alike.

Again, Thanks! It’s nice to see some descent stuff come around ATS. It seems that we are lacking a lot of that these days…

Peace...

Why do people arbitrarily place Atlantis in all these different spots all over the world? Everyone has their own pet theory about how Atlantis is one of the Americas, or Antarctica, or Crete, or some other island, and they cherry-pick the data to fit their theory. All the underwater cities that exist all over the world are a part of the previous age's civilization, but they are not the Atlantis described by Plato.

Plato said exactly where Atlantis was. It was where the Azores are now. He also said exactly when it was destroyed. About 12,000 years ago, at the end of the last Ice Age. The entire planet went through the largest cataclysm and extinction event it had seen in over 2 million years when that happened.

I suggest you look into the actual science of it. There is a geological explanation of exactly how a continent of that size, and placement, could sink into the ocean in one night. Look at a map of the tectonic plates on Earth, and look at where the Azores lie. Right at the intersection of three of them. This is how the island was swallowed up. It is a complex scenario involving the melting of the North American Laurentide Ice Sheet and the isostatic rearrangement of magma underneath the Earth's crust. All of this was triggered by a cometary bombardment.

You clearly have a knack for research, but I suggest you rely more on your faculties of skepticism and scientific logic than searching for evidence of a conclusion you have already made!