South America: The Definitive Geographic Location Of Atlantis

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by Doug Fisher

 

You've done extremely well in this excellently detailed analysis of geographic potential for a location that adheres to description and restriction far better than other attempts, as well as maintaining plausibility with reality.

Posts like these are the very reason I joined ATS. Your argument for geography alone is astoundingly compelling.

Awesome. I forget the name of the fellow that discovered Troy even after much ridicule, but, should any physical evidence such as a dig takes place finding evidence to support your claim, I've a feeling you'll be standing next to him.

Heinrich Schliemann...and thanks very much!!

I'll be sure and come back to bump your post when that happens.

-Doug

reply to post by Doug Fisher


I'm not usually poking around on Google Earth, but, as I understand it, satellite imagery can be a boon in locating sites due to significant alteration/impact of natural plant/tree growth in an area, or deep scarification of the land not readily apparent from ground level. All signs of human occupation or use of the land may be gone from ground level, but, for whatever reason, it would seem plants have a very long memory in pointing a finger, or leaf at places people have spent significant amount of time in habitation in the far past.

I don't see anything conclusive in aerial shots, but, the odd growth patterns in seemingly illogical placement on that delta island and the surrounding area, other than the obvious farming grids, would seem to indicate 'something' more than just agricultural scarring in the area.
'Something' of course could be anything, but, also better than absolutely nothing.

Edit: It may very well be worthwhile to contact someone in the Anthropology department at the local university in that area, presenting your research, to see if they'd be willing to set up an exercise with their students in sinking a few exploratory test holes in the area.
Student labor is cheap.
If nothing's found, then, the students learned about sinking test holes. If anything even questionable is found, then, it could merit further inquiry.

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I recommend looking into some of the supporting evidence of a world trade network involving South America, not necessarily 'Atlantis', but South America none the less, by looking into the Fuente Magna bowl with Cuneform and Semetic writing on it, fount seemingly very out of context in Bolivia, as well as the prevalence of Egyptian mummies testing positive for nicotine, and coca plant products, both tobacco, and coca only available in the Americas.

Further evidence such as described support the existence of a world trade network existing with connections to South America. Such supporting and growing evidence pointing at South America or back to the old world from South America as in the case with the Fuente Magna draw a line of connectivity in prehistory that blurs common accepted historical paradigm.

How'd the Egyptians get stogies, or that special white powder from the coca plant?
How'd a 4000 year old bowl with Cuneform and Semetic script wind up in Boliva?

These mentioned have been looked into thoroughly and vetted against fraudulent or hoaxing activity.

It isn't in Sumerian

Nicotine is available in small amounts in other plants in Europe, Africa and Asia. Retesting of the mummies found that the detection of coc aine was in error

But what does this have to do with 'Atlantis' being in SA? A culture of the size Plato described would 'covered' an immense area and produce a great deal of archaeological debris

Originally posted by Doug Fisher
Heinrich Schliemann...and thanks very much!!

I'll be sure and come back to bump your post when that happens.

-Doug

Actually when Schliemann came looking he found an archaeologist named Calvert siting on the site. He didn't have money to excavate, Heinrich did. Calvert refound Troy (most probably) but Schliemann arranged to dig it up

reply to post by Doug Fisher


Well said, however given the nature of civilizations the complete lack of any artifacts anywhere in SA, Europe or Africa (assuming Plato's story had any validity) that can be assigned to Atlantis seems to point to your exhaustive work being yet another case for Atlantis that goes no where despite the comparative geography.

Good luck in your search - you may wish to establish contact with archaeologists in Argentina who are based in the provinces of Santa Fe, Entre Rios and Corrientos.

Originally posted by Hanslune
It isn't in Sumerian

Nicotine is available in small amounts in other plants in Europe, Africa and Asia. Retesting of the mummies found that the detection of coc aine was in error

But what does this have to do with 'Atlantis' being in SA? A culture of the size Plato described would 'covered' an immense area and produce a great deal of archaeological debris

The Fuente Magna may not be Sumerian, is a true possibility. However, yes, or no, the piece is indeed anomalous, such so it was considered a hoax for a long time and according to some sources not put on display until 'recently' in 2000.
The scripts depicted are of a style of cuneform and semitic dating some 4000 years.
How does such show up in South America?
Granted, as an anomaly, it could very well be indication of just that; an anomaly, possibly of a bronze age ship lost to sea, ending it's days on the shores of South America.
It could however, indicate the existence of world trade well before common paradigm.

Thank you for the update on the mummies. I was unaware of findings with nicotine in the old world, nor of any mistakes occurring regarding the coca product.
You've given me incentive to follow up and verify your detraction. I'll look into following up and post further should I find anything recent contradicting your statements.

These being examples of 'Atlantis'? Please note my stress of interaction between the Old World and South America. I'm all for the existence of the mythical Atlantis as described by Plato, but, my expectations are set more to the level that Atlantis = South America/New World as opposed to a concentrated and organized cultural civilization its own. Thus, I stress examples of supporting evidence of interactions between New World and Old in antiquity beyond current paradigms as indication that there was indeed such occurring.
'We're sailing for Atlantis', if the statement was ever made in old world antiquity, may have been a broad term for this really huge target of a continental landmass as far West as could be sailed as opposed to a more precise telling of a specific pinpoint city/empire/culture.

As to questions about the lack of other artifacts in the area; some of this may be accounted for by the several thousands of years of all the things that happen to things over several thousands of years, plus looting/recycling by later residential cultures, plus all that further looting and hauling off of gold and silver to be melted down without consideration of historic value by all the wonderful Spanish and Portuguese and other 'explorers' out for conquest from ~1500 onward.
It's still a very valid question. Why hasn't there been anything found such that would indicate this supposed culture of Atlantis?

Not digging, and not asking questions, and not looking won't find anything, for sure. Looking, digging, asking questions, on the other hand will find something. What gets found in the course of searching may not be anything related to Atlantis, sure, but, the act of looking alone could produce significant finds of other cultures that could expand on what we already know about the Maya, Inca, Olmec, Toltec, and/or the many others.

S&F OP, amazing thread.

Any chance you will head down there with a shovel and dig?

This presentation has sparked my curiosity and I'd like to see you get to the bottom of this, so-to-speak.

WOW!

I just woke up and saw this!

I can't wait to get out of work so I can read this thru thoroughly!

S&F!

What a great thread presentation!

I don't think it is in america at all. Just for the fact plato is the 1 who originally told the story of atlantis being located past the pillars of hercules. Plato was a ancient greek philosopher from 428-348 B.C. So the chances of him going all the way to south america is very unlikely because not only does he had to of went there and seen it he would have to make his way all the way back home to tell the tale.

s&f for some serious reading, was watching a program about atlantis a few weeks ago and it covered alot of the same ground and was pretty good at making its case - wish i could find it

Posting for future reference. Have to go to work now and don't have time to read it all. looks like a well done thread. Will read later.

Thank you for taking the time to put together such a wonderful thread. I haven't begun to review it just yet but will most likely this afternoon when I have more time. S&F.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Well said, however given the nature of civilizations the complete lack of any artifacts anywhere in SA, Europe or Africa (assuming Plato's story had any validity) that can be assigned to Atlantis seems to point to your exhaustive work being yet another case for Atlantis that goes no where despite the comparative geography.

Not even comparative geography. Hans.

Last I checked, South America was not underwater.

Harte

Originally posted by sherlock1412
I don't think it is in america at all. Just for the fact plato is the 1 who originally told the story of atlantis being located past the pillars of hercules. Plato was a ancient greek philosopher from 428-348 B.C. So the chances of him going all the way to south america is very unlikely because not only does he had to of went there and seen it he would have to make his way all the way back home to tell the tale.

Plato was relating a description told to him as a child, which originated from an Egyptian priest.

No one ever claimed Plato himself traveled to Atlantis.

Originally posted by watchitburn

Originally posted by sherlock1412
I don't think it is in america at all. Just for the fact plato is the 1 who originally told the story of atlantis being located past the pillars of hercules. Plato was a ancient greek philosopher from 428-348 B.C. So the chances of him going all the way to south america is very unlikely because not only does he had to of went there and seen it he would have to make his way all the way back home to tell the tale.

Plato was relating a description told to him as a child, which originated from an Egyptian priest.

No one ever claimed Plato himself traveled to Atlantis.

Even that is not quite right, though it's possible.

Actually, the story is told by Critias, who heard the story as a child from his father, who heard the story from his father, who heard the story (supposedly) from Solon at a festival - the Feast of Apatouria - which involves the induction of new infants and new wives into the family clan, which is exactly where one might expect to hear fictional tales designed to educate. Exactly as mentioned in Plato's Republic.

In the story, supposedly it was Solon that heard the tale from a priest in the Egyptian city of Sais. As a sidenote, the priest also claimed that Sais was as old as Athens and Atlantis - IOW, 9,000 years older than Solon, who was around about 200 or so years before Plato.

We know today that neither Athens, nor Sais, is anything even close to that old.

Harte

Wow, there is some intersting stuff in here and i've only just started skimming the top, thanks for this will come back later to go more in depth

Screw Atlantis. Why are Americans obsessed with it for? Nearly any 'out there' conspiracy told, or theorised from an American has to include Atlantis. I don't get it, is it some dysfunction, where Americans feel like they need to find a lost city. Whenever something pops up about a potential underwater city, Americans jump on the bandwagon, and point and scream "It must be Atlantis!" It's bloody stupid.

Thank you.

double post

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Hanslune
Well said, however given the nature of civilizations the complete lack of any artifacts anywhere in SA, Europe or Africa (assuming Plato's story had any validity) that can be assigned to Atlantis seems to point to your exhaustive work being yet another case for Atlantis that goes no where despite the comparative geography.

Not even comparative geography. Hans.

Last I checked, South America was not underwater.

Harte

Hehe I stand corrected; however he did find a number of geographically similarities although some of them would be hard to credit as; as you and Plato noted, the place sank.

Oh my, this is quite a read. A topic that has inspired and interested me for over 30 years. Great job constructing this to make sense and flow. So many thoughts and very intriguing information. I must spend some more time taking a closer look, but outstanding work! Thank you for the commitment to excellence and not just slapping it together. South America has so many secrets...