2nd Trimester Abortions, What Is Your Stance On Them?

Social before Birth: Twins First Interact with Each Other as Fetuses
www.scientificamerican.com...

I'm probably getting into the hornet's nest by posting in this thread, but here it goes.


I am pro-women's rights. Their body, their decision, but with some understandings.

Abortion shouldn't be used as a tool for the lack of responsibility of both parties. Don't use a rubber, or BC, then you live with the consequences.

In my opinion, abortion should only be used if there is a dire medical situation, the fetus will live a lifetime of agony and cause undo financial or emotional stress (see the above poster referring to encephaly...sorry for the spelling) on the family charged with raising it. Obviously those problems don't show until the 2nd trimester, and it's a decision that must be made intelligently. Rape, incest, etc. should be handled in the 1st trimester before the zygote has time to form into the semblance of a sentient being.

Like I said, abortion should not be used as a means of birth control for irresponsible people.

Ultimately, it's the woman's body and she should have the right to decide what best to do with her body. It's a personal decision, and politics, religion, etc. should be left out of the equation.


My $.02.



-TS

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Thank you for that article
I wish more people who were against abortion would bring up articles like these more instead of biblical passages.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
I have no problem with a second trimester abortion, could said fetus survive outside the womb, nope. I can probably turn a blind eye until about the 6th month.

But people on life support couldn't survive without life support either

People with kidney failure couldn't survive without dialysis either

So they aren't alive either?

People have been programed to believe a lie,

If a doctor preforms an abortion because the mother wills it, the baby was not a living being,

but,

If a man shoots a pregnant women he is guilty of murdering the woman and the unborn baby.

Insanity

We have been trying so hard to create accountability among the young men in society, but we sell our souls so that our young women will not be held accountable. Why, to women that claim to crave equality, do they desire a double standard that removes accountability from their choices. Abortion has nothing to do with rights, and everything to do with hypocrisy.

Reply to post by ModernAcademia

That is not the same thing. A fetus is not even self aware yet.....most of what it does is evolutionairy reflexes. Its not a person. Someone who has been living outside of the womb for years and has developed both physically and mentally is a human. This is not hard to understand.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by Stormdancer777

Wouldnt that follow? Abortion is the mothers choice. Therefore if she wants an abortion and gets it no murder because she didnt intend to carry the baby to term. If a pregnant woman gets shot and her baby dies and she intended to have the baby its murder. The difference here is one wants the baby one does not.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
That is not the same thing. A fetus is not even self aware yet

Firstly you do not know that
Secondly if you are using the term self-aware somewhat abstractly then as soon as the baby is delivered it's not self-aware either

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
.....most of what it does is evolutionairy reflexes. Its not a person. Someone who has been living outside of the womb for years and has developed both physically and mentally is a human. This is not hard to understand.

What's not hard to understand is even while it's a baby in the crawling stage the baby still continues to develop evolutionary reflexes and develops both physically and mentally.
THAT is not hard to understand.

See look at your argument
Everything that you just said could also be said about a born baby

It's not difficult to see the flaw in your logic

My stance is that abortions until 5th month of pregnancy (when brainwaves appear at the earliest) is not morally wrong and should be allowed without any restrictions. After 5th month, it is wrong and should be illegal except to protect the health or life of the mother (and also possibly anencephaly, because no higher brain means no victim). So I think abortion limit should lie somewhere in second trimester.

Reply to post by ModernAcademia

Thats not a flaw at all I most of what a infant does after birth is reflex for like the first year. But a fully developed baby can survive outside the womb most babys born at 6th month point do not and before that it would be a miracle if one did. We are not talking about a fully formed baby born normally. Therefore your point is moot.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
An abomination.

The Fall of Babylon
"Your merchants were the world’s great men.
By your magic spell [Greek = pharmakeia] all the nations were led astray.
In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
and of all who have been killed on the earth.”
Revelation 18:23-24

[Greek = pharmakeia] In addition to it's meaning of drugs like PSYCHEDELICS used to achieve an altered state of consciousness, in the ancient medical text known as Soranos’ Gynecology, pharmakeia is used solely in reference to abortifacient potions used to terminate pregnancies.

The Hippocratic oath is to the Nephiliam "gods" - "“I SWEAR BY APOLLO, THE HEALER, ASCLEPIUS, HYGIEIA, AND PANACEA"

Within the six pointed blue star insignia on the sides of ambulances is the staff of Aesculapius the Greek god (Nephiliam) of medicine MEDICINE.

Abortion, no matter the timeframe, is the deliberate murder of human life. There is no difference between killing a ten day old baby versus one that's been born.

Except the scriptures you seem to revere also teach that a human does not become a living being until breath enters into them Genesis 2:7. So how do you reconcile your belief that life begins at conception with the scripture that says it begins when we take a breath? Just curious?

Don't get me wrong I am not a proponent of abortion except in cases of rape. I think it is wrong however I do not see it on par with murdering a living being as most right to life folks seem to do.

A 2:46 clip to open your mind to a new perspective:



I'm pro-life from conception to death.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Thats not a flaw at all I most of what a infant does after birth is reflex for like the first year. But a fully developed baby can survive outside the womb most babys born at 6th month point do not and before that it would be a miracle if one did.

Again elderly people on life support
People on dialysis

Even adults can become dependant

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
We are not talking about a fully formed baby born normally. Therefore your point is moot.

No your point is moot
I think you should really do some research before posting, and I say that in a non-confrontational manner

A baby is born with about 30% more bones than an adult has but over time they fuse together
Also muscles, the number of muscles that a baby has vs. an adult is also different

So with that in mind when you say that a fetus is not fully developped... guess what
Neither is a born baby

So who's argument is moot?

reply to post by Stormdancer777

By nine weeks, a developing fetus can hiccup and react to loud noises. By the end of the second trimester it can hear.
At nine weeks, the embryo's ballooning brain allows it to bend its body, hiccup, and react to loud sounds. At week ten, it moves its arms, "breathes" amniotic fluid in and out, opens its jaw, and stretches. Before the first trimester is over, it yawns, sucks, and swallows, as well as feels and smells.

I call BS. No conscious movements can be made before the brain even has brainwaves (no possibility of mind existing), and before thalamocortical connections develop (5th month). These are automatic reflexes, not conscious movements.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Thats a rather poor argument. There is nothing wrong with "slavery" (if it can be even called such), if the "victim" has no mind. Slavery is wrong because it infringes on freedom and causes suffering to sentient beings. A fetus before 5th month is not one.

Originally posted by onthedownlow
We have been trying so hard to create accountability among the young men in society, but we sell our souls so that our young women will not be held accountable. Why, to women that claim to crave equality, do they desire a double standard that removes accountability from their choices. Abortion has nothing to do with rights, and everything to do with hypocrisy.

Excuse me but im not sure that im following what your saying, society has changed on the responsibility part (for example, here in the UK they encourage both sexes to use protection) When a girl gets pregnant her blame is not down-played, but neither is the boys...
And Abortion IS a right. By law in fact. And even if it was illegal (which it has been in the past) backstreet abortions would only rise in numbers and put more women at risk.

But do please explain what you mean in your OP.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
A 2:46 clip to open your mind to a new perspective:

I'm pro-life from conception to death.

That video compares laws that are century's apart. They were different times then. He's reaching and failing to grasp the simple fact that here's denying a woman freedom to make a PERSONAL choice. Just because HE believes that life starts at conception doesn't mean the mother does, and he has NO RIGHT to force his values on her. That is why the abortion "issue" will never be solved - people are unwilling to stay out of other peoples business.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I think they are usually very naughty!

Abortion during any trimester is murder, in my opinion.

redrum

Let's put aside whether or not the fetus is self aware, or at what age it happens.

Think about it like this. A life form has come into existence. If left alone, it will one day become someone's mother, or father, or sister or brother, or friend, or husband or wife. If given the right to exist, he or she will likely effect the lives of countless people that he or she comes into contact with during the course of life. He or she may even become a future leader, or famous artist, or maybe a person who will make an important scientific discovery that will carry mankind into a better future. No one knows for sure what kind of life he or she will have, but the possibilities exist, good or bad.

Now, if this life form is aborted, and it's life taken away from he/she at such an early stage. You are not only ending the life of someone before it barely had a chance to begin, but you are also ending the connections that life would have had to anyone who would have been effected by this person.

And if you are ending a life form's existence early, even if he or she may not be self aware yet, he or she would have been if we didn't interfere, so in a sense, you are still eliminating a life. This is why some people view this as murder.

Just as the fetus will one day become a grown man or woman, all grown men or women were once a fetus. You are effectively ending a human life form, no matter how you spin it.