When Christians get angry.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by babloyi

 

If we are following the T&C to the letter I could complain about all the posts Threatening me with hell, they are threats and against the T&C.

Just curious: How can you feel threatened?
How can someone threaten you with hell? Maybe you are getting the Bible quotes mixed up with their's?

According to the Bible, No one but God could cast someone into hell. This is OnLY His judgment call, for only He has the power to do so .

For the record, MAN cannot threaten anyone with Hell fire but they could sure warn you about it!

Originally posted by boymonkey74
If we are following the T&C to the letter I could complain about all the posts Threatening me with hell, they are threats and against the T&C.

I think that's one of the funniest things I've read in a while.

And you know - - if threats of Hell were real - - I'd be standing right next to you.

reply to post by SeekerLou


Let me think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hmmmmm

Westboro Baptist Church???

They have taken this to the extreme and are more than just agravating like your average Joe Wannbe APreacher,,, so I believe what they do is Intimidation and Threatning and just plan Evil.

So,, if you think someone,, or something is cause to have your God send someone to hell,,, how about Keep it to yourself unless that Person asks for spiritual guidance under your umbrella of Religion.

Personally, when they come a knocking at my door,, I (time Willing) ALWAYS say,,, "Sure, I will Listen to what you say,, but you have to give me equal time and hear me out also.""
and
the Few who talk,,, usually a LONG TIME,,,
I say,, My Turn
Then ask them to step into my Yard, and around the side of my house is my Sacred Circle/Medicine Wheel, were I tell them,, THIS IS MY CHURCH,,, right here out in Nature,, with the trees, bees ,, flowers Sky and Earth,
I can take their 'Holy Book' and tell them that if I lay it in on the ground and leave it,,,, come back in a few months/ year/s and we eventually will find a pile of dust and dirt,,,,
Their Holy Book,,, has Returned to My Holy Book of Nature,,, and Nature is still surrounding me as always,,, telling me She is really in command,, and if they were to listen Quietly Enough,,
She would teach them ALL and MORE than what is in a book written by men over a few thousand years.

Most of the time,,, they Leave quickly before I GET MY EQUAL TIME TO SPEAK.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

Let me think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hmmmmm

Westboro Baptist Church???

Ummmm ...nooooo..... so wrong assumption there.

They have taken this to the extreme and are more than just agravating like your average Joe Wannbe APreacher,,, so I believe what they do is Intimidation and Threatning and just plan Evil.

So,, if you think someone,, or something is cause to have your God send someone to hell,,, how about Keep it to yourself unless that Person asks for spiritual guidance under your umbrella of Religion.

Personally, when they come a knocking at my door,, I (time Willing) ALWAYS say,,, "Sure, I will Listen to what you say,, but you have to give me equal time and hear me out also.""
and
the Few who talk,,, usually a LONG TIME,,,
I say,, My Turn
Then ask them to step into my Yard, and around the side of my house is my Sacred Circle/Medicine Wheel, were I tell them,, THIS IS MY CHURCH,,, right here out in Nature,, with the trees, bees ,, flowers Sky and Earth,

I can take their 'Holy Book' and tell them that if I lay it in on the ground and leave it,,,, come back in a few months/ year/s and we eventually will find a pile of dust and dirt,,,,
Their Holy Book,,, has Returned to My Holy Book of Nature,,, and Nature is still surrounding me as always,,, telling me She is really in command,, and if they were to listen Quietly Enough,,
She would teach them ALL and MORE than what is in a book written by men over a few thousand years.

Most of the time,,, they Leave quickly before I GET MY EQUAL TIME TO SPEAK.

I understand where your heart is. I also understand there are some major so called strong holy rollers and I've had my share of them also. People do err and are oft misled and by all means are not perfect but this does not turn me away from God. This actually caused me to seek Him out further - and to know truth *for myself* ...I am not here to make a believer out of you... that would be His calling to do thus. Not here to debate or argue either that was not my intention. I merely wanted to point out that people cannot threaten people with Hell.

I agree on this : Time will tell ! PS I haven't been to church in a while.... so many are corrupt, imo. Have only found a rare few that I have found right, but then again, they are not perfect either. I worship in my own way also...and on rare occasion , I may attend a function.

Yeah, have heard the horror stories of Westborough! Extreme! and imo also err.
Hope this post was made clear.
ETA: Had a church of christ lady tell me I would go to hell! because I wasn't baptized btw. This really shocked and pissed me off too. Sought the Word of God and found out they were wrong according to Scripture. So there ya go. My life story lol

reply to post by Annee


Hey Annee!!!
I love your responses to some of the ''polite evangelizing'' here.

I understand exactly where you are coming from I believe. I too, grew up in the Church, had experiences like yourself that as a Child wanting guidance would ask Preachers, Rev's and good meaning souls who only knew the Bible by what they were told. The Answers, guidance given were never up to par,, as I believe like you I was connected to Spirit at Birth, with Nature,, and the Scriptures only handed out Works of the Devil, Devil Tempting and such because of Spiritual Gifts. It was a hard row to hoe, but like you I trudge on trying to make sense of a very illogical / self contradicting mess that is the present day Bible. Being I felt this closeness to Spirit, I wanted to be a Reverend myself,, and Unlike many ,,, actually Read the Book numbers of times by the age of 14. That still wasn't enough,,,, Had my Born Again Experience,,, which wasn't like what other Christians reported back to me,,, and I continued trying to make sense of this Religion I was born into,,, while remembering "past Lives" ,,, seeing auras around people,,, (which as a child,,, thinking it normal,,, Dark Dirty Purple Clouds around the Preacher meant trouble with Drinking) It got to the point,, that my questions became a big annoyance to the Preachers,,, and was told multiple times,, You just Don't Question God or the Holy Book.
So, learned enough Greek/Hebrew and followed what Scholars had to say about the creation of the book,, and while still a teenager,, knew I wasn't going to be able to stay with Christianity or Organized religion. Even after finding a more Metaphysical Church,, and going through the Program for becoming a Minister,, I opted out because my Soul KNEW Differently than what was prescribed in The Book.
I have been FREE and REALLY SAVED since leaving.
I still enjoy speaking with Christians,, because I believe that Evangelism can be countered with Logic, and a Spirit of Understanding that only Gnosis (Knowing ) can bring.
Also,, because I continue to learn more about Why the Abrahamic Religions are Wrong,, and Detrimental to the Future of Mankind.
It won't be some Buddhist or Pagan from the Bush/or Atheist that takes the Jihad/Crusade to the next Level,, it will be an extremist that has taken to Heart what these Religions TEACH
THEIR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY

We KNOW it IS NOT...
SO ,,,, continue on your path,,, I believe you are correct and maybe agree with some of what I say.

We, who were born '''Spirit Filled" or who kept our childlike Knowledge gift from nature,,, are the Counter Balance to the Madness that has been foistered on us and the Planet for Way to Long.

Keep it Up.
Sincerely
EarthCitizen23

reply to post by SeekerLou


Hello,, SeekerLou,
Thanks for the polite and kind words,, but my point really is this.

Just Because,,, and you might reread my post,, because Not Once did I ever say I Turned Away from God,,
I just don't believe in the whole Yahweh/Jehovah/Tetragrammaton created mess of the the people of the "Holy Books"

I can talk very much like an atheist in many peoples mind,, but I am not,,,, by far.. yet

The whole Idea when people listen to me,,, and they say,,, Oh! But you shouldn't turn your back on God and so on,, well I didn't.

I still Listen to the still Small Voice that Has Always been with me.
In some company,,, I may refer to it as my Higher Self or Consciousness,
in other groups,, I might use the phrase,,, Holy Guardian Angel

God,,, speaking directly to me,,, hasn't happened,, and I might wonder about my mental state if it did,,,

but I do hear ,,, ''the Whisper of Nature'' the Deva, Plant and Animal Spirits I work with daily.
I do hear my Own Higher Being guiding me when I need it,,, and it sometimes has shown itself as a figure in a dream of Jesus,,, the Buddha,,, or some other great teacher...

But not once have I turned my back on God,,, just maybe your god. which is not the same.

Many will say,,, well that is just the Devil talking to you...
so be it for what they think.
I am fulfilled is Assurance of Gnosis and Knowing my relationship with Deity... and I don't need much help on Biblical Scholarship at this point of my life... I am VERY WELL VERSED IN THE ""BOOKS"" just don't believe much of what is said in them as normally translated by ''Believers"\
so,, thanks again,,
but please be careful next time speaking to someone about how you word yourself,,,
I am NOT OFFENDED ,,, but some could be hurt, or Really Offended.

I believe we are all on the same path,,,
You might like driving on the Freeway,,
I enjoy the Back Road Scenic Route...

Good day to you and may You Be the Change you Wish to See in this World.
Peace is Every Step,,, Enjoy and Be Kind (as I think you were being)

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
Being I felt this closeness to Spirit, I wanted to be a Reverend myself,,

I did too. I wanted to devote myself to a life of God.

HOWEVER - - before anyone takes that wrong - - there was always a line I couldn't cross. Hence the 60 year long quest to find God. Which resulted in accepting it was never right and I never actually believed - - - I just wanted to - - to be like everyone else. I did not reject God - - I did not turn away from him. It just never was.

Religion is man made. It is words. It is of the physical world.

reply to post by Annee


Amen to that,, yes Religion is Man made,,, and I too could never cross that line.

reply to post by Annee

I skimmed mostly through the 12 pages (at that point) of this thread...I wasn't particularly referencing any individual post, rather just the general air of bickering and insulting that was going on, on both sides of the argument. I specifically brought that up, because the OP titled his thread "When Christians get angry", as if moronic and childish behaviour in this regard was exclusive to Christians.

As far as your mention of Mithra's supposed virgin mother, you have to admit, it isn't a very useful reference. A link to another forum? How is that meaningful?

Still, taking your link at face value, it mentions what a certain person named Dr. Badi Badiozamani says. In case you were not aware, Dr. Badi Badiozamani is a Iranian-American with a PhD in Political Science, and the author of one book, "Iran & America:Rekindling A Love Lost". His area of expertise is translating, transcribing and interpreting between Persian and English, and "facilitating" conferences and meetings that involve Iran or the US. His area of expertise isn't really ancient history, and it definitely isn't archaelogy (although he does show a patriotic appreciation for Ancient persian art). To top it all off, the forum post in your link gave no references as to WHERE Dr. Badi said these things, making it fairly impossible to check.

STILL, even if one did not discount the source of this information, the information itself is somewhat faulty. While it is true that Anahita was well known from about the 4th century BC, this supposed quote (again, not mentioned where from, which ancient book, which ancient inscription, etc.), Mithras was known as "Mehr" from the Middle Persian Era (3rd Century to 7th and onwards), which would've been much AFTER the formation of the idea of Jesus's virgin birth.

It is a bit funny how someone who claims to be grounded in the ideals of skepticism and rational analysis could actually be advocating the works of D. M. Murdock (originator of the whole derived Jesus theory).

Originally posted by babloyi
As far as your mention of Mithra's supposed virgin mother, you have to admit, it isn't a very useful reference. A link to another forum? How is that meaningful?

Why? Because its not the mythical emotional believer version?

I read several sites on Mirthra.

I intentionally listed a secular explanation - - - so it would not be confused by interpretation of "chosen belief",

reply to post by Annee

Why? Because it is a forum. That is somewhat obvious reasoning. If I made some strange assertion, and when asked for proof, linked to something similar I said on another forum (with the same lack of references or evidence), it doesn't really count. If you "read several sites on Mithra", why not link one of them, instead of a random forum? Are they all as scholarly and academic as the link you already provided?

You seem to be continuously going on about "emotional believer" versions, perhaps in an attempted jibe at my beliefs?...I dunno if you haven't caught on yet or something, but I'm not Christian (or a Parsi, for that matter). I have no vested interest in the upholding the exclusive "godness" of Jesus. I just don't like people misusing and distorting cultural history intentionally (like many proponents of the "Derived Jesus" theory do to Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Ancient Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythology in an attempt to discredit Christianity).

PS: Dr. Badiozamani is muslim, not secular. Besides, intentionally choosing "secular explanations" has the problem of very often ending up with explanations from a source that have a bone to grind with Christianity. It is better to look for UNBIASED, explanations (secular or not), that haven't been set up solely as an "opposition point" to Christianity- i.e. academic sources that have researched for the sake of learning, rather than for the sake of proving Christianity wrong.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Annee

 

Why? Because it is a forum. That is somewhat obvious reasoning. If I made some strange assertion, and when asked for proof, linked to something similar I said on another forum (with the same lack of references or evidence), it doesn't really count. If you "read several sites on Mithra", why not link one of them, instead of a random forum? Are they all as scholarly and academic as the link you already provided?

PS: Dr. Badiozamani is muslim, not secular. Besides, intentionally choosing "secular explanations" has the problem of very often ending up with explanations from a source that have a bone to grind with Christianity. It is better to look for UNBIASED explanations (secular or not), that haven't been set up solely as an "opposition point" to Christianity.

I read several sites.

I'm quite capable of forming a conclusion. And choosing what is IMO - - an intelligent and logical explanation - - - without bias of a believer.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Annee

 

Why? Because it is a forum.

The person in the forum was presenting work from this person (she is not Muslim). Here is her website: www.truthbeknown.com...

D. M. Murdock, better known by her pen name Acharya S., is an author and proponent of the Christ myth theory.She has authored six books and operates a website named Truth be Known. She believes Christianity is founded on earlier myths and the characters depicted in Christianity are based upon Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and other myths. en.wikipedia.org...

D.M. Murdock

Here is another post on D.M. Murdock's website - - by author Gerald Berry - from his book Religions of the World

"Both Mithras and Christ were described variously as 'the Way,' 'the Truth,' 'the Light,' 'the Life,' 'the Word,' 'the Son of God,' 'the Good Shepherd.' The Christian litany to Jesus could easily be an allegorical litany to the sun-god. Mithras is often represented as carrying a lamb on his shoulders, just as Jesus is. Midnight services were found in both religions. The virgin mother...was easily merged with the virgin mother Mary. Petra, the sacred rock of Mithraism, became Peter, the foundation of the Christian Church." www.truthbeknown.com...

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


No you don't understand. There is free will, and you already made up your mind before you were born into your human body. Don't have me try to explain this, it would beyond your understanding at the moment. We all have free will, and we made up our choice in the beginning at the foundations of the world being created, before we were put into these bodies.

You had your choice, you just didn't think you made it yet. The fallen angels had the choice to leave our Creator Yahuwah and follow Satan, so there is free choice on that concept. Tell me, have you always believed since you were a child the same way? Im pretty sure you have, and I have always been the same since I was a child. We are born this way, meaning we already made up our mind beforehand. Converting someone from their choice isn't possible. Just like the Jehovas Witnesses are wasting their time. The book has been written, the names have been chosen, you can't change the past now.

Its hard to grasp that we already made our choice, but you need to think beyond our human bodies, and think into our spiritual being thats within us. It was formed, and those that followed the light were chosen, and those that didn't follow the light were not chosen, or are ready for judgement. Its a belief that we all have made, its just our time now to understand why we made it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I bash Christians because I have experience with them, I was once one for 25 years, or more exactly like 18 years, I was born and raised in a Christian home, beliefs the whole thing.

I know how Christians operate, they are doctrine teachers of their own, not Scripture. They are the most promoted religion in the world, and for some reason most people think they are the right ones. Yet, you see movie stars, rock and roll artists, hitler, and even psychopaths and child molesters wearing crosses or saying they are Christian and thank 'God'. Your telling me all these people are in the right? Look around brother, this is not crystal clear glass world your in. This world is full of deception and Christianity is the biggest purpotrator of them all. Satan has you deceived like billions in the world thinking that Christianity is the right religion, or that Islam is the right religion.

If Christianity is the right religion, then why is it there are women pastors? That goes against Scripture on 2 accounts.
1 they are not permitted to speak out their own in the assembly
2 they are never to have authority over men. If Christians don't follow this, they are heretics not following scripture and making up their own doctrine according to Paul.

1Corithians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1Timothy 2:9 KJV In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Explain to me why this isnt being taught in the Church, among other things? Why is the men so weak and feeble to say that women are not to have any position of power in the assembly? Or over men for the matter?

This is just one of the great deceptions that Christianity is promoting around the world. Women are not equal with men, men are above women, and the Messiah is above men, and the Heavenly Father Yahuwah is above the Messiah. No trinity garbage, no rapture, no pagan idols like the cross, none of that mess.

I am angry at the ignorance and nieve attitude of people that tell me this, cause Scripture say otherwise. People say the Father came down and became the Son. Who said the Father is the Son? Christians say these things, not Scripture, 2 different things. People have to get it out of their head that Christians are not linked to the Bible. They teach their own dogma.

John 16:27 for the Father Himself does love you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from Alahym.
16:28 “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

John 7:28 יהושוע (Yahuwshuwah) therefore cried out in the Set-apart Place, teaching and saying, “You both know Me, and you know where I am from. And I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know.
7:29 “But I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”

Matthew 24:35 “The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away.
24:36 “But concerning that day and the hour no one knows, not even the messengers of the heavens, but My Father only.

There is more I can show but its clear the Messiah is not the Father, and He doesn't know the end, but He came out from the Father, and follows His will perfectly who shows himself to be a perfect reflection of the Father. Thats why He said, when you see Me you see the Father, because of the life that he lives, he follows His Fathers commands perfectly.

Who said that its ok to compromise the truth and wear a pagan idol the Cross on your neck and on your churches? Christians are the ones who say these things. Scripture does not teach to use a pagan idol cross of Tammuz on our necks, or teach that the Son is nothing more than the Father who took on a body on earth. Its pure idiocy, heresy, and lies. I hope people would realize how serious this really is, cause the Will of the Father is what matters here, not man's teaching or keeping peace on earth.

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

reply to post by babloyi


Acharya S Would hopefully be amused by an assertion she is a Muslim,, I doubt it. She most likely would verbally take every thing you have said and take it apart piece by piece and while politely creating you a new rectum show you the error of your thinking and leave you so bewildered that you might just learn to think first before saying something you know nothing about.....

Too funny Acharya S as Muslim.... what a Riot.

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

No you don't understand. There is free will, and you already made up your mind before you were born into your human body. Don't have me try to explain this, it would beyond your understanding at the moment. We all have free will, and we made up our choice in the beginning at the foundations of the world being created, before we were put into these bodies.

You had your choice, you just didn't think you made it yet. The fallen angels had the choice to leave our Creator Yahuwah and follow Satan, so there is free choice on that concept. Tell me, have you always believed since you were a child the same way? Im pretty sure you have, and I have always been the same since I was a child. We are born this way, meaning we already made up our mind beforehand. Converting someone from their choice isn't possible. Just like the Jehovas Witnesses are wasting their time. The book has been written, the names have been chosen, you can't change the past now.

Its hard to grasp that we already made our choice, but you need to think beyond our human bodies, and think into our spiritual being thats within us. It was formed, and those that followed the light were chosen, and those that didn't follow the light were not chosen, or are ready for judgement. Its a belief that we all have made, its just our time now to understand why we made it.

I don't Understand?? Enlighten me O Great One Who Knows so much more than us Average Humans.
What an Arrogant Load of crap you spew, but you knew that already,, decided long ago to be an arrogant Scripture Thumper who thinks they know more than everyone else,, way before you were born. Happy for you having such self assurance in your beliefs,,, you are no different than most like that.. so I can forgive you for the error of your thinking.

I won't ask you to Explain it to One so low and Stupid as myself,,,,, I am not capable of Understanding such Deep Truths that you Understand,, so I can understand your reluctance to throw a crumb to a dog such as I. What a load of utter Crap. And because I have read Many of your Post here on ATS,, and the Enormity of your self righteousness and utter Arrogance is beyond words. ....I can tell that you most likely don't read other peoples post,,, since you know it all and have it all figured out. Beyond my Understanding at the Moment..... give me a break,, that is so Lame and condescending that it is ultimately it is Sad,, shows how far humanity has sunk with belief systems such as yours That Know so much more than us other mere mortals and parade themselves about like we should bow down to their greater knowledge. BULL S.
Your statement Here:

We all have free will, and we made up our choice in the beginning at the foundations of the world being created, before we were put into these bodies.

I can follow that,, sorta,, believing that Since we are ALL PART OF DIVINITY,, we would Know this is an illusory journey into Matter.... But some going to damnation and others get the goodies in Heaven,,, again Bull S,,, Just a way for some to try and gain hold of sovereignty over another while here in Body,, nothing more nothing less,, and really if this is your game,, your not that good at it my friend.

And NO,, in reality I have NOT always thought the same since I was a child,, at least not on Philosophical issues, religion, faith/no faith, sexuality Maybe,,, but I sort of could understand if you said,, the Inner voice I hear always being the same,,, that Maybe Yes,,, but NO,, I have Learned a LOT and Change my Mind when I am shown to be in Error,, and deed also. Now i do believe in a form of Reincarnation that allows for the idea that we do preview our bodies and future lives lived,, but FREE WILL HAS REIGN VERY MUCH SO IN THIS LIFE.
Also,,, I understand the concepts of Neurobiology and how the brain works, and how our consciousness can have a time lag so that it SEEMS that we don't Have real FREE WILL,, but I grant you WE DO... RIGHT HERE,, RIGHT NOW.
Now,, you can hang onto this psuedo Predestination belief if you like,, I won't try to make you understand the error of your thinking,,, because we know that it would beyond your understanding at the moment.
but if you like we can discuss it.

I have thought "Beyond our human body" most of my life,, so suggest something new and innovative that I should try.
Your logic I understand regarding Christians,,, they like many Hindu, Buddhist, Muslims and others,, many times DO NOT KNOW THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES...
I have witnessed and shown many that myself...
But If I ever was as arrogant as you in your Words,,, I hope I am forgiven by my good friends,,, I would never tell them ,,, I KNOW SOMETHING THAT IS BEYOND THEIR UNDERSTANDING,,,
Unless it was a personal experience of my own.

Seektruthalways1?

Did you pick this name because of the Jewish Gematria?

Meaning.......


Confusion Is The First Step To Understanding

maybe.....

Defective Function Of Mental Processes

or One of the Other Meanings??

Just wondering

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I bash Christians because I have experience with them, I was once one for 25 years, or more exactly like 18 years, I was born and raised in a Christian home, beliefs the whole thing.

Exactly!

As do I - - - I talk about what I know. What my experience is/was with it.

I do not talk about Islam - or Judaism or any religion I have not had experience with.

Many Christians don't seem to have a problem slamming Islam. Something they know Zero about.

Yet - - they get angry at people like you and me - - - who are speaking from personal experience with Christianity.

They really do have a persecution complex. They can dish it out - - - but when it comes back on them? Whine - Moan - Complain.

Disclaimer: am I talking about every Christian? Of course not. A group is made up of individuals.