HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

Originally posted by JizzyMcButter
The debunkers need to settle down,... its called a theory for a reason.

By all accounts what mainstream archaeology proposes to the means and methods of construction is also a theory.

It's all up for debate here, I like to look at both sides but will lean towards AA theory rather than MSA on these.

I think most people that take the MSA theory as gospel and refute any evidence are religious and choose to ignore opposing theories due to the fact that they do not want their belief system challenged, lest the be proved wrong.

Proponents of AA theory are capable of thinking about things in a different perspective and are looking for their proof.
Proponents of MSA theory stay 'inside the box' on just preach what they have been taught without looking further.

None of the supposed theories should necessarily be construed as 'fact' until we find proof.

Bravo bravo. Well stated.

Now let the slings and arrows fly against this common sense.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


yes congratulations, you quoted the same thing.

That's not proof.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


These white men sound like nordics, the alien variety. History tells us that [northern] Europeans, who are most likely the blue eyed white people, were less civilized than say the ancient Greeks or Romans, or even Egyptians. So I don't think it was Norsemen, Franks, or Anglo-saxon seafarers that made their way to South America and constructed a sophisticated site like Puma Punku. Some of the really ancient sites in say Ireland, England, or France look nowhere near as impressive as Puma Punku, but they do include some really heavy stones.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Sumerian bowl that was found near Lake Titicaca. Seeing as the Sumerians were probably darker skinned, then they too don't fit the story... unless we consider the "Annunaki", which are depicted as tall and with beards. The colour of their skin and eyes however, I don't know. There's also a depiction of a bearded man in Tiwanaku (and the natives don't grow facial hair) so there is some correlation with the story you brought up and what was found in the area. But I don't think it fits Europeans.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by 1AnunnakiBastard

 

I mean, it's not like the picked an ancient soup bowl and gave it wings, a tail and landing gears.

Yeah. It's not like they made a lawn mower fly without adding wings. Oh, wait. They did.

The point being that just about anything can be made to fly. A flying model means nothing.



Of course, some fish can fly.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67c3067ab3d6.jpg[/atsimg]

Have you ever seen an aircraft with eyes?

edit on 3/17/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

and Dragons do exist !!! Phage !! Really They Do just the Little Ones that Glide ...

Their Real Photos



Aircraft With Eyes hmmmm

A10 Warthog


Not to Mention the Pre WWII Flying Tigers

to Add a Log into the this Fueled Debate

Ethiopia: lifting the mystery on rock churches ‘built by angels’
www.tadias.com...


Church of Saint George, Lalibela
en.wikipedia.org...

The Site of Saint George is claimed to made by ANGELS a.k.a Aliens in 1 or 2 days

Now Look at the Base!!!! of this Building think hard now ATS





Some Pics to see of the Site

1 St Giorgis
blog.travelpod.com.../izzie/africa2005/1118792940/filename=e271.jpg

to me it does Resemble This from the Ruins of Puma Punku
as this picture below is not from a Base but from a Entrance or Edging


another in Ethiopia


Obelisk of Axum
en.wikipedia.org...

The Obelisk of Axum (today, especially in Axum, also called the Rome Stele) is a 1,700-year-old, 24-metres (78-foot) tall granite stele/obelisk, weighing 160 tonnes, in the city of Axum in Ethiopia.

The false Door Looks Familiar ?


ohh yeah from
The Site of Saint George Church 1


I Say There is a Sumerian Ethiopian Pre Colombian Turkish
Connection of Some Sort ...

it was said that Viracocha could call down “fire from the heavens.” If he caused this fire to consume a huge rock, that rock would become “light as a cork”, and could be easily be used for such constructions as can still be seen at Cuzco. In Andean legends, it is asserted that this Cyclopean city was built in a single night.

reply to post by Wolfenz


Hey, great post. All those photos really seem similar to Puma Punku. I remember the Ethiopian site but didn't pay the base that much attention. The precision really jumps out and seems similar to Puma Punku. The story of how it was created is similar too.

Originally posted by JizzyMcButter
The debunkers need to settle down,... its called a theory for a reason.

By all accounts what mainstream archaeology proposes to the means and methods of construction is also a theory.

It's all up for debate here, I like to look at both sides but will lean towards AA theory rather than MSA on these.

I think most people that take the MSA theory as gospel and refute any evidence are religious and choose to ignore opposing theories due to the fact that they do not want their belief system challenged, lest the be proved wrong.

Proponents of AA theory are capable of thinking about things in a different perspective and are looking for their proof.
Proponents of MSA theory stay 'inside the box' on just preach what they have been taught without looking further.

None of the supposed theories should necessarily be construed as 'fact' until we find proof.

I agree and like you see things from the same angle. I try to remain as neutral as possible . With myself my fascination is all due to curiosity and not belief itself. The reason the subject continues to be oppressed and ridiculed by academic institutions is all due to to arrogance and a stubborn mind set. Refuting certain evidence being by practice indoctrinated in to said academic institute making itself null and void That itself making its mission statement moot. Men of science should have the humility to admit yesterdays science even his own conceived findings could be wrong today, and always science is subject to change. Many fail to understand the principles of science in that it is basically theoretic founded on theory itself. Then will contradict themselves in ridiculing theory that is not officially accepted due to lack of data yet the data on the UFO and Alien topic is abundant.

Its very unfortunate and counter productive. People need to do personal inventory and approach the subject with a open mind otherwise they are becoming learning disabled. I have found so many religious zealots masquerading as men of science in these circles it has changed my opinion of "debunker" because most of the time it is just one projecting denial as a defense mechanism. So when you explore the reasoning behind a cover up it then paints a picture clear to see, people would blow a gasket especially said zealots.

A critical thinker recognizes the facts herein, the evidence that something other then ancient man was present. A sane person should at least conclude that he is likely not the center of the universe in all creation and in company of a higher intelligence be it light years away, now or then. And it is these non-thinkers that have undermined progress of the UFO alien topic and the potential of the human race itself. It is appalling, Thank them for nothing,. We must unlearn the ways of the old world before we really learn our place in the multiverse.- what we understand it to be.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by PerfectPerception

 

Theory as well cetian species were introduced to this planet and earth being some cosmic zoo. And how would we know if we are an experiment? We probably wouldnt. A pet is not aware it is a pet ect

All the while,unbeknownst to that possibility we will continue to wander,wither and ponder endlessly towards Life's mysteries & meaning...Origins.

I can only speak for myself when saying I continue to find myself lost perpetually without any absolution,no resolve for my desire to know exactly whence we came and where,if possible,we will be going after this mortal existence extinguishes it's self ?

Sentient and conscious life I believe to be the experiment of our experience.

Maybe we are our own creators it is just that we have fallen asleep in a lull of forgetfulness

What you say is as probable as anything & everything within this vast multi-verse,I'd bet all paths exist.

Fathomless potential and possibility.

[ On Topic ]

I feel the same when I think about the "ancient alien" theories/E.T. intervention scenarios...It is not my intention to doubt and undermine humanities ability...I would just like to remain open minded to all possibilities...Even with our modern science,academia telling us what to believe,what is/isn't true.

Just because I have never seen with my own two eyes,have never touched or experienced it to be true doesn't make it an impossibility...I honestly believe this existence and our universe has many more secrets left for us to explore,discover and experience.

Modern man is not the pinnacle of humanities existence.

I believe some form of advanced,highly intelligent human preexisted in our ancient past either that or some unknown "Alien" intelligence could of very well colonized/visited here on earth, possibly educating ancient man in ways that have become lost to us? who am I to pass absolute judgment and deny that something beyond our present day understanding and belief systems, just because I lack tangible evidence...The beauty is in the imagination and possibility,for me at least.

The ancient monoliths & structures speak of something amazing,incredible,lost....Certainly "Alien" in comparison to our modern day civilization.

Our history is not complete...Nor is it 100% factual IMHO,I cannot even blame the majority of the teachers because they are only regurgitating what they have been lead to believe themselves to be the truth,limited and fractured as it may be.

I do not know or claim to have any privileged knowledge but I know in my heart that we are not getting the complete picture and absolute truth of our existence and origins.

Re: Erich von Däniken a Charlatan

I know EvD books since the late 70s and in fact saw him live when i was little kid, this when my fascination with the AA theory started.

There are two things which are great with Erich v. Däniken:

* He is an INCREDIBLE entertaining/good talker and author, in a way that you get sucked into his books and can't stop reading them regardless whether you believe in ancient aliens or not

* He is very intelligent and listening to him when he appears in public, TV etc. is just awesome.

I think listening to him in English diminishes this a bit since he is a German (Swiss) native speaker and i think the books and his speeches are better in German.

Anyway...here is the point:

EvD always and ALWAYS leaves the final conclusions open to the reader/listener...he asks questions and asks "COULD IT BE?" Rarely does he make final statements...so i would be careful about calling him a "charlatan". The fact that the leaves the thinking TO YOU is actually one of his signature treats...unlike "conventional science" which is always quick with an explanation. So..what's better?

Believing in all set dogmas and be blind for OBVIOUS things and unsolved questions which are right out there in the open, instead of asking questions how and why? So..he is a charlatan because he doesn't accept everything "science" explains...while at the SAME TIME pointing out the discrepancies where very often there is a very legitimate reason to doubt conventional "explanations"?

As for the (US American Ancient Alients show). In Europe, there was an AA show in the late 80s/early 90s (sorry, would have to double-check here) with EvD as the main guy behind the show - and the CURRENT show on the History channel etc. is different in a sense that i am not *always* liking it, it's too hypey and done for quotes etc... and way too "americanised" occasionally.

So...if the current show gets stupid at times...then blame History channel or whoever produces the show. This doesn't make EvD's theories less interesting or make him a charlatan.

reply to post by RealSpoke

AA is a bunch of pseudo science, biased interviewees and what if questions.

Biased interviews? I just see several different people expressing an interpretation and opinion. Is it that you do not agree with them? If you do not agree and yet fail to address the evidence doesn't that make you biased yourself?

Nothing about it is high quality

You can watch AA in high definition now. What is not high quality about the TV show? They even throw in CGI models and incorporate other modern technologies in the show. Do you expect AA to be aired in 3D?

unless you enjoy being scammed for half of it.

Scammed half the show? So you are saying a television show discussing a theory is defrauding people out of money? Even when it begins with the "what if" disclaimer to begin with? Who is being scammed by show? Who is being scammed half the show? What other half of the show does not involve a scam? ?

I'm not an archeologist, I doubt most of you have REALLY studied that much on ancient sites to make a real decision. Or even been to the site physically. It's like all the non-engineers speaking of how buildings fall.

You don't need to be an Archeologist to understand it, it just takes common sense to know better. I have made a REAL decision, my decision is ancient man did not create these artifacts. And you can quote me on that

reply to post by Xtrozero

The problem I have with the show is they do not offer anything BUT the alien connection.

I just started watching it and about the first thing they say is "Was this evidence of ancient mans ingenuity?"


Naturally they focus on the "or else" possibility and lay a pretty good case for it - hence the name of the show.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier

I have made a REAL decision, my decision is ancient man did not create these artifacts. And you can quote me on that

This is 99.9% of the problem.

I have made a REAL decision...

Yes, by all accounts, you have decided to only accept what gives weight to your POV.

...my decision is ancient man did not create these artifacts.

This is where stupidity takes over.

Is it not hypocrisy to claim that science is stuck in dogmatic ideologies that refute evidence when you yourself will not accept the possibility that an ancient human civilisation could have quite possibly built it using techniques now lost?

I'm not saying that ET built this prior to meeting Billy and phoning home, but, I am also not discounting it.

Weighing up the two.....ET vs Human .....so far the evidence is pointing towards it being built by humans. There is a lot of incredible engineering accomplished by man over the last 10,000 years.

Take the Roman Aqueducts as a prime example.

I have yet to even see an ET life form, let alone, see evidence of an ET structure.

Something only mentioned briefly and not readdressed in the 15 pages of bickering over the hows and whats and whos of stone cutting is something of significance called the Fuenta Magna.

Touched on briefly in the episode under discussion, the bowl mentioned does indeed have Sumerian style cuneform writing, as well as proto-semetic script; two different forms of writing totally out of place and seemingly out of context with the area and cultures associated with it.

There's a thread here on ATS that brings attention to it here: Fuente Magna; Rosetta Stone of the Americas

That thread further links to this article: Investigations of Bolivia's Fuenta Magna ...

The items described, though not as impressive as finely cut blocks of stone, are still extremely significant.
Aliens?
No, though since there's cuneform involved the Annunaki lovers will be all over it.





This bowl is significant on several levels as a unifying vehicle for a number of historical anomalies.
Accordingly, due to the nature of this bowl being so out of place and out of context, it was thought and considered a fake for a long time and was never put on display until 'recently' in the year 2000.

Some things noted about this find in the article are:

1. We are dealing with an object which was made in keeping with Mesopotamian tradition.

2. It contains two texts, one in cuneiform and another Semitic language of possible Sinaitic extraction cuneiform influences.

3. According to the symbols used one would be before an object that evidently shows itself to be from the transitional period between ideographical writing and cuneiform.

4. Chronologically, this leads us to the 3500/3000 B.C., the Sumerian/Akkadian period.

This find, as well as the supporting evidence in the monolith/oracle also mentioned in the article supports some of the more radical and less accepted ideas submitted against the common accepted paradigm, that world trade existed, and was more pervasive in pre-Columbian times than most think.

This would indicate that Sumerians were visiting South America.
Blonde haired and fully bearded people of a level of technological achievement above the locals, it would seem, as indicated by this bowl and other artifacts, was indeed quite possible and also a reality.

Please note, when I say 'level of technological achievement above the locals', I mean more so along the lines of comparison between stone age and bronze-early iron age levels of separation, NOT Annuaki.

This level of world trade, specifically between the old world and South America, for whatever reason it was done has further supporting evidence in the existence of Egyptian and other mummies testing positive for a certain South American white powder substance associated with the Coca plant.

The Sumerians were pretty keen with their stone work. The Hanging Gardens of Babylon are legendary as one of the wonders of the world to this day.
Sumerians in South America, mining for tin, and other minerals, exploiting the locals for slave labor, possibly even milking some worship as gods out of it for their strange white skin, blonde hair, and thick manly beards?
Yes, This bowl, plus the monolith/oracle also described, as well as other artifacts alluded to in the article would support this.

It's much more probable than aliens, that's for sure.

Sumerians.
There's your answer.

reply to post by newcovenant


I like the show not for it evokes thought and ideas, new ideas. I like the show because it addresses findings not typically discussed in the MSM. The show directs people to look at these mysteries and make a personal observation and for the viewer to come to ones own conclusion. The show does introduce the prospect of ET as a possibility due to the ancient s calling these ancient gods star people. However what it does NOT do is ram a belief system down the throat of the viewer. It does not brainwash, seduce, manipulate the audience. It does not do the disservice the hecklers and straw men are claiming. It is opening a new forum for discussion and brainstorming. IT DARES TO GO AGAINST THE GRAIN !

People could find a hundred TV shows to rag on like jersey Shore and Toddlers in Tiaras but this show is threatening for some, even robbing our pockets ?

Some people don't like a whole lot of thinking and speculating on certain subjects. And I thought evangelicals were nuts.

reply to post by Monger


Sooo you watched this episode and think humans, with hand tools, any hand tool, take your pic or even make one up... Made the cuts, perfect holes and right angles in that granite?

how can these "primitive" humans have moved giant blocks of stone 60 miles from the quarry.

according to the video, it's impossible, because there are no trees to roll them on.

so naturally, the people in the video concluded aliens used levitation to move the stones.

instead of this:

Does anyone know if they have done any excavation UNDER Puma Punku? I have not read anything stating that they have or have not. It would be interesting to see what they find.

As much as I'd love to think this was an ancient alien site, something has been constantly on my mind.

We have Einstein. We have children who have certain disorders that put their IQ above average humans. We have savants. What is to say that ONE person, let's say someone with the IQ of Einstein, devised a way to create new ways of building these structures?

All it takes is ONE person being born with a special talent, or intelligence to make Puma Punku happen.

reply to post by OccamAssassin

This is where stupidity takes over.

Oh yeah typical adhominem attack, start a response with an insult and expect to be taken seriously.

U MAD?

Is it not hypocrisy to claim that science is stuck in dogmatic ideologies that refute evidence when you yourself will not accept the possibility that an ancient human civilization could have quite possibly built it using techniques now lost?

Accept, accept itself would mean it is cut and dry case of ancient man when it is not. In that the evidence would prove that ancient man did indeed build these artifacts. However there is no proof of that. So to accept it as fact would be illogical. I have not accepted it to be of alien origin, i believe it was not created by ancient man. There is a difference. I have not concluded who did it leaving the door open to other possibilities until the evidence leans toward modern man and in my opinion doesn't. But if my opinion, interpretation upsets you then I am doing something right.

These ancient techniques, these tools where are they?

I'm not saying that ET built this prior to meeting Billy and phoning home, but, I am also not discounting the possibility that human ingenuity built an amazing structure.

Who is billy? Why is he phoning home?

I recall a story about a kid named elliot and a ET phoning home though.

twas a great film

Weighing up the two.....ET vs Human .....so far the evidence is pointing towards it being built by humans. There is a lot of incredible engineering accomplished by man over the last 10,000 years.

Sure there is, i am an engineer myself . You probably did not know that. Yes man has done some amazing things and is continuously inventing new ideas every day. But, this does not explain these artifacts.
I do not believe ET crated these artifacts but I am open to the possibility. Man possibly created these artifacts but but logic over rides the prospect due to several factors. I "think" it was more likely done by our descendants in the future explaining the bipedal astronaut suits and delta wing craft.

Where is the evidence favoring ancient man crafted these structures?

Link source?

Take the Roman Aqueducts as a prime example.

It was built by man, that is explainable. How do you make the correlation?

I have yet to even see an ET life form, let alone, see evidence of an ET structure.

I have yet to be taken by beings to another planet and if that evener happens then I will call these beings aliens. Or my government makes a full formal statement that they are aliens. If you notice i am cautious to call these beings aliens at all. As much as I am cautious to call these beings ancient man. See, not everyone that thinks it was not ancient man thinks it is ET.

Food for thought: what if you seen ET, would you recognize it? Would you know what to look for? Would you mistaken it for an animal, insect, anything worldly ? But if you could please enlighten me.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


100% agree with your statements above and second them and would just like to add:

I find myself wondering sometimes about those who criticize & reject the theory...Alternative 'perspective' shall we say,concerning Ancient Aliens/E.T. intervention, even when simply confronted with a mere "Idea" that does differ greatly from their own I cannot help but think many when confronted with such a possibility albeit,to them, on the surface,outlandish/bonk explanation to these structures origins...It scares many,bursts that comfy,self made bubble of the know all,all is well mentality a majority find comfort in.

To even entertain such a theory as being even remotely possible...It would have to make one question more than just some ancient monolith...If you go as far as to even simply suggest E.T. into the equation...You have to question much much more...It has the power to destroy the very foundations of that individuals faith,religion,Meaning of life...Everything.

If the ancient alien theory were to be actually 100% the truth,it changes everything.....One would have to question what they have been led to believe in all walks of life,academia,dogma....

Humanities Origins.

Is man simply a creation that originated not in the mind of divine God or through abiogenesis but the real truth is that we were created from an advanced,highly intelligent alien species?

Once that bridge of thought is crossed,a idea grows into acceptance,into possible truth & reality...one that many fear...consciously and more even on a subconscious level.

Man has always feared the unknown.

This alternative point of view...Theory... concerning the great ancient monoliths of Humanities past involving "Alien" origin/intervention hits home where it hurts,incites fear,disbelief.....

Absurd notions & pseudo-science the naysayers & skeptics cry...May be they are right?

BUT

What If they are wrong???....That What If is what scares many.

Including myself.

I often wonder what would be worse.....To never know for sure,grasping for enlightenment but only to be utterly left in the dark or to know the truth only to find out it was not what you hoped or expected it to be???

What If.