HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Phage

 

shouldn't you be sleeping rather than cherry picking the easy replies? How would you classify your "natural materials and ingenuity" argument without providing any proof? What do you have to say about the completely unsophisticated construction of Tiahuanacu right next door? Why would they not capitalize on their successful techniques learned at PP? Where are the precedents? the mistakes? the learning curve?

So because the areas that could point toward an evolutionary learning curve have perhaps not been discovered yet, you want to throw that possibility out the door and just say you already know that they don't exist? Perhaps we have not discovered all there is to discover? No one is trying to say one way did it, or the other, my original point was that saying aliens did this because you lack the information to make a well informed conclusion does not make the aliens theory true. It is just an answer until new evidence eventually comes out one way or the other. Right now none of us know how any of this really came to be, but like I was saying; I do know humans are here on this planet and do carve stones. On the other hand I have NEVER seen an alien species (nor do I think you have) so logically my conclusion would be humans did this construction NOT aliens. Again this is just based on the observable evidence of the world we live in.

If you have evidence of aliens to the contrary I am all ears

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
I guess we can have a slight idea about power tools being used to build those megalithic structures in the Andes, if we take a look at the statues of the so called "Tula" warriors, who according to the local traditions were giant African-like stonemasons always seen in the company of Quetzalcoatl. They are usually depicted bearing something hanging in their waist, that looks A LOT like power tools in holsters.



Of course the naysayers will say that those objects are "fancy chisels", "stone hammers" or perhaps "ceremonial magic wands"...

The problem is....

There are no rusted power tools, no aliens, no diamond cutters, no lasers, no nothing that wasn't primitive tools. Present one of these and you got me, but hey... if there isn't anything to prove it, maybe, just maybe, they used primitive, but effective methods.

Oh BTW do you think their alien power tools would actually look like something from Lowes...geez. Our mind likes to associate things with what is familiar to us, it is how we remember. You ever wonder why you see things in random clouds? AND now you know why you see such familiar things in ancient works.

Think about it...it's a power tool because that is what you want it to be....

AA is a bunch of pseudo science, biased interviewees and what if questions. Nothing about it is high quality unless you enjoy being scammed for half of it.

I'm not an archeologist, I doubt most of you have REALLY studied that much on ancient sites to make a real decision. Or even been to the site physically. It's like all the non-engineers speaking of how buildings fall.

You all do realize that the opening credits of the show, they say:

"What if it were true?"

They don't say that everything they are presenting is the truth. Right?

And could someone PLEASE tell my why a photo of Petra, a very well known ancient settlement in Jordan was being shown? Even AA wasn't crazy enough to suggest "Aliens" built that place.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
They also made new tests with actual RC replicas of the notorious aerial vehicles reproduced in gold models by the ancient Incas, that archeologists claim they are "stylized birds", and proved AGAIN they are fully functional AIRCRAFTS.

First let me say that I love the AA show because the subject matter is really interesting. What I take issue with is the wild-eyed conclusions they draw from the presented data. "Here are large blocks that could not have been placed with the technology of the time, so CLEARLY they were placed using alien technology." They state such things as if they are absolutes. The truth is we just don't know the answers, perhaps it was alien intervention or perhaps we don't give our ancient cohorts enough credit for having incredible ingenuity.

Anyway, regarding the R/C replicas I am a long-time R/C aircraft builder, designer and pilot. I've built planes, jets, ornithopters, helis, quads and even a hexa. With today's technology, we can make literally anything fly. How about:

A Super Hero that looks like Superman

Snoopy and his doghouse

Still not convinced? How about a man on a surfboard:

You can take literally anything and make it fly, so they have proven absolutely nothing by taking replicas of ancient jewelry and strapping a motor on it to make it fly and they should not pretend that it does prove something. That's what irks me about the show, they're manipulating things to force the data into a single conclusion (ancient astronauts did it).

Yeah, especially since they motorized the "gold" replica. They should have made it as a glider, as originally thought and similar to the Egyptian one, and taken it to a height and throw it. So it if glided, big deal, the natives had birds to copy and even though birds don't have vertical stabilizers you can't take it away from someone back then working with enough copies that may have failed and they tried a vertical stabilizers and, bingo! Of course, the aliens watched all this with pride!

Even Leonardo da Vinci's glider needed a modern vertical stabilizer to make it work properly and one never knows if Leornardo spent any time constructing models and seeing them fail.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
I guess we can have a slight idea about power tools being used to build those megalithic structures in the Andes, if we take a look at the statues of the so called "Tula" warriors, who according to the local traditions were giant African-like stonemasons always seen in the company of Quetzalcoatl. They are usually depicted bearing something hanging in their waist, that looks A LOT like power tools in holsters.

Of course the naysayers will say that those objects are "fancy chisels", "stone hammers" or perhaps "ceremonial magic wands"...

The problem is....

There are no rusted power tools, no aliens, no diamond cutters, no lasers, no nothing that wasn't primitive tools. Present one of these and you got me, but hey... if there isn't anything to prove it, maybe, just maybe, they used primitive, but effective methods.

Oh BTW do you think their alien power tools would actually look like something from Lowes...geez. Our mind likes to associate things with what is familiar to us, it is how we remember. You ever wonder why you see things in random clouds? AND now you know why you see such familiar things in ancient works.

Think about it...it's a power tool because that is what you want it to be....

I agree with you, of course, but if you haven't seen it there's a video showing South American ruins and the host is pointing out the superb joining of stones and he shows a stone that has a length of it with a deep but narrow (maybe an inch wide), unfinished cut and you immediately visualize that only a saw made the cut. I visualize a timber saw, the type operated by two men. We know they didn't have power tools but what do you think created the cut?

These structures in Peru were built by advanced men using methods forgotten to us. A technology not like our own, a more natural technology using forces already present. Anything from sonic acoustic tech to hydro/water/wind/sun tech,

These structures had nothing to do with aliens but has everything to do with a lost history of mankind that supported a level of technology that was not recorded in history. To assume that they were made by aliens is a amazing compliment to our ancient relatives who did build these structures. I am sure they would have a great laugh.

We should give more credit to these ancients and figure out how we did it then rather then giving credit to aliens. I can see where this logic comes from since mainstream archaeology points to the ancient world as being religious savages that were good at piling rocks and that nothing really existed worthy of recording before 10,000 b.c.


In time evidence will be found as usual and the foot prints of mankind's emergence will be uncovered. Be patient.

The debunkers need to settle down,... its called a theory for a reason.

By all accounts what mainstream archaeology proposes to the means and methods of construction is also a theory.

It's all up for debate here, I like to look at both sides but will lean towards AA theory rather than MSA on these.

I think most people that take the MSA theory as gospel and refute any evidence are religious and choose to ignore opposing theories due to the fact that they do not want their belief system challenged, lest the be proved wrong.

Proponents of AA theory are capable of thinking about things in a different perspective and are looking for their proof.
Proponents of MSA theory stay 'inside the box' on just preach what they have been taught without looking further.

None of the supposed theories should necessarily be construed as 'fact' until we find proof.

Hell, maybe they just made a big mold and poured a cement substance into it and let it dry.
Nah lol, I think the ancients had something of value we don't have today. I guess we will never know.

What a great episode

Puma Punku was in my opinion a ancien alien outpost

Landing site ?
Industrial Gold Site ?
Portal Site ?

Like they said .. constructed in one night ?
maybe with laser and levitation tech

My theory for what this outpost was for:
The big hollow blocks are for liquid Gold to form V shapped gold bars
they are in 2 for a reason .. to remove the bar when its cooled
when their work was finish they had to destroy this little business
one bomb directly on Puma Punku and another to create a massive tsunami of mudd and water
that is exactly what happened .. they wanted to cover it up in a hurry obviously

the theory of the blocks being used for a big door is good
but a big door to what .. why a big door ... doesnt make sense

The site of Puma Punku have Sumerian descendance
and we know the Sumerian had incredible technology
that only beings from outerspace could have

Will the builders return ?
Mayans knew about the alien schedule
and it was left to them to be written in rocks the day of their return

9 months to go
hope they can build new things for humanity
we clearly need a little motivation
we cant let the greedy people of this earth ruin everything they have hoped we would have become
that was a long wait but why waiting until thousand of yrs later

Ahhh so many questions
maybe in 9 months everything will be clear

reply to post by gortex


I would tend to disagree only if they take the time to find more evidence and present it in the same clear fashion as the origional show.

Evidence is always being found.

For example up to maybe 5 years ago there was only theory that there is a chamber in the sphinx.
Then they actually found one (much to the dismay of that pompus arrogant windbag Harriss (I may be mispelling it)), opening up new questions.

Then the same guy found underground chambers on ground penetrating radar. Again that windbag has stopped any other people checking it out.

If they are just regurgitating old info however then stick to reruns.

Scrounger

reply to post by 1AnunnakiBastard


And how do you know that wasn't simply humans returning to their home? If you were a space faring people, ie a type 1 civilization, that does not guarantee you were one nation. Just take for example America and Europe. let's say for God knows what reason, America forgot about Europe. Then in 1973 they rediscovered it. The Europeans would take these airplane flying, metal warship sailing, sky scraper building people for practically aliens. America would simply be returning to where she came from.

Sounds crazy for the scale of continents, it is not that crazy for the scale of solar systems.

Hell for all we know our ancestors were the best soldiers in the galaxy and were contracted to fight a war, returning with champions honors and many other awards. The aliens who hired them wouldn't give a damn about what trophies they took home. They'd either have no idea what they were dealing with, or blow themselves up. There's actually some evidence for this case, primarily the fact that we evolved as spear throwing hunters. I don't know, it's like man evolved for the gun, and I'd almost argue we are seemingly made for such a weapon. Can you think of many other weapons possible by other hands and fingers? Something so elegant and simple, yet so precise at doing it's task.

Who knows. Maybe our minds were smarter than they, and we were simply more primitive, so advanced people contracted us to think up of a few inventions. Then, having seen our carelessness with inventions, banished us back to our home and quarantined the planet, out of fear of the freakishly super intelligent, but incredibly careless species from earth.

And to be honest, you are not going to be an alien and give away technology out of the goodness of your heart. You do it for only 3 reasons. Appease the locals to get their military support, make them develop along technology you developed, so you can control them better, or some sort of unknown tactic of micro-invasion. Not out of the goodness of your heart.

Technology is linked to culture, and you give yourself away when giving your tools away. This is why when humans gave their technology to neanderthals, the neanderthals were extinct within a few thousand years.

What bugs me the most about this ancient alien series the the complete omission of facts. Here is who built and taught these ancients their ways in South America according to their own history.

We know from ancient Indian legends that at some point shrouded in the mists of time, White men landed on the shores of the New World, long before Columbus. Every Indian society of which we have any knowledge records this arrival and refers to a White God who brought them their system of science, and engineering, gave them their legal codes, and helped them achieve a high level of civilization. But who was this HIGH GOD? And how did he and his relatives cross a vast unknown Ocean to arrive in a New World? From these ancient legends we learn that these White Gods arrived in huge foreign ships with Swan wings, hulls gleaming so brightly that they looked like giant serpents gliding over the water. When they reached the shore, strange men emerged from the ships, fair skinned and blue eyed, wearing gowns of a course black material with a circular opening at the neck and short wide sleeves.

The legend of a particular white God has also survived to our day from all the ancient civilizations of Central and South America. The Toltecs and Aztec of Mexico called him Quetzalcoatl, the Incas called him Viracoha, to the Maya he was Kukulcan who brought their laws, also their script, and was worshiped like a god by the people. To the Chibchas he was Bochia, the White Mantle of Light. To those of Peru he was Hyustus, and to this day they will tell you that he was fair, and had blue eyes.

According to two of the chroniclers White Men with beards turned up on the shores of Lake Titicaca, built a great city, and taught the inhabitants a more civilized way of life. The Indians said that the White Gods built this city 2000 years before the time of the Incas.

www.israelect.com...

reply to post by The Shrike

Give me a break with the thread title! The show sucks due mainly to the personalities employed to babble about stuff they have no concept of and all they do is offer their distorted views of history since they don't have to provide any evidence for their outrageous claims!

The show sucks eh? Well then can you name a show that does not suck on this area or name a show discussing the "Alien" topic or fits your special criteria? Assuming you are interested in the topic at all?

What is a distorted view? Because another mans concept does not fit in to your own? What about the unexplainable artifacts and instances of evidence ?Is it that you have no explanations? Care to engage the topic of discussion rather then use the adhominem attack method? Your lack of understanding to grasp the possibilities is pointless hence pointless to even comment on the issue at hand.

The high point of the show is seeing the guy that has his own source on Google Images. As soon as you type "history channel ancient an", the drop-down menu includes "history channel ancient aliens guy"! The "guy" is Giorgio A. Tsoukalos and he has lit up a lot of websites not because of his ridiculous theories but because of his hair! He is this program's ONLY entertainment as long as the audio is muted!

Of course don't bother talking about nor debunk his ridiculous theories tha'ts too much work, talk about the hair. I brought this up earlier the whole hair thing. If your are as easily influenced by the mans hair and judge the man by his appearance that just screams how immature you are. The focal point of the show and the issues is not about hair or beauty school tips. And I am not defending the guy, he prolly has the such a hair doo as a statement "hey I am my own person dare to be different" that's what i get from him. But you are easily impressionable and bring nothing to the table at hand.

Seriously, arrow to the knee



en.wikipedia.org...

"Personal attacks" redirects here. For the Wikipedia policy, see Wikipedia:No personal attacks. An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.[1] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy.[

And my favorite

Stanton Friedman said, "If you can't attack the data, attack the person".

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit: aren't you the guy that insists Aliens are not real : I don't believe Aliens thereof impossible ?

reply to post by Gorman91


Or more like we invented the gun to suit our anatomy, not the other way around.

reply to post by RealSpoke


In most cases I'd agree. But there is simply something incredibly simple about the gun that it is just weird. You try to plot the evolution of other species with different situations and anatomy, and it's kind of difficult to imagine something like the gun in many other cases. You can see how this would work with tools, spears, bow and arrow, etc etc. Hell I can imagine a few ways a crow could make these things with just its beak and feet. But a gun? You need two or one arm, close to your head, and able to face up the eye to the arm. Hell even the cheek bone works into how it just all works elegantly.

idk it just seems strange that this one tool, of all of them, is so efficient, and seemingly good for our particular form.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


This seems incredibly racist, and I cannot find many supporting sources for the claims.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

This seems incredibly racist, and I cannot find many supporting sources for the claims.

Sigh... Research my friend.

The legend of a particular white God has also survived to our day from all the ancient civilizations of Central and South America. The Toltecs and Aztec of Mexico called him Quetzalcoatl, the Incas called him Viracoha, to the Maya he was Kukulcan who brought their laws, also their script, and was worshiped like a god by the people. To the Chibchas he was Bochia, the White Mantle of Light. To those of Peru he was Hyustus, and to this day they will tell you that he was fair, and had blue eyes.

According to two of the chroniclers White Men with beards turned up on the shores of Lake Titicaca, built a great city, and taught the inhabitants a more civilized way of life. The Indians said that the White Gods built this city 2000 years before the time of the Incas.

Since the White God had come to the Indians long ago wearing a black beret, and a black gown, then as Cortes arrived he wore both these and landed almost in the same spot where it was said the White God had bid his people farewell, promising to come back, but with Cortes came white men who were mercenaries and adventurers who were not interested in this civilization. They wanted gold and treasures, but the language survived and the Indians still speak the Maya language, the Aztec, and other original languages, and they did not understand the Spanish lust for gold.

People living in the Peruvian highlands still have features very like the old statues and head‑shaped jugs found. And as of old the Indians salute to a stranger whom they trust is Viracocha...meaning White God. If you enter an Indian hut in the Yucatan jungle; join the elders around their fires on the icy Bolivian plateau; talk to the Indians in the jungle on the banks of the Amazon; wherever you go you hear this legend of the White men with beards who came in the dim past and became Gods of the New World

At the dawn of the present time cycle just after the great flood of Noah, recalled in the Bible and elsewhere, a mysterious group of god men appeared at various locations around the planet to initiate the survivors of the cataclysm in the rudiments of civilization. Legends from Peru to Sumeria, ancient Egypt to India, recount the arrival of god-like beings appearing after the great flood. Osiris and The Egyptian Thoth, India's Vishnu, Enki and Oannes of Sumerian and Babylonia, Quetzalcoatl and Viracocha in the Americas, are remembered in ancient worldwide legends as a group of beings collectively referred to as the Fisher Kings -- fisher's of men.

www.labyrinthina.com...

This is not a coincidence. There was a great cataclysm that washed away our history.

reply to post by WingedBull


Well heres the problem with your logic on "main stream" archeology. It allows no dissent or even challenges to the stated "DOGMA" of the experts.

Yes I used dogma because the mainstream "experts" (and their supporters) defend their "facts" with a zeal that (short of bombing the opposition) make them seem like the talaban in comparison.

Lets take one notable "expert" from egypt called Mr Hawass. Here is a prime example why main stream archeology should not be taken as gospel.

This fool (and I am being generous) continued to belittle, dismiss, and attack anyone who said there were secret rooms in the sphinx.

Then about 5 years ago (I think) a archeologist (I wish like heck I could remember his name) found PROOF of a door on the back of the sphinx to a secret chamber that "did not exist". Hawass himself on tv toured a part of it and claimed "nothing to see here" and did not allow any "outsider" to explore it under the guise "protecting egyptian antiquities from looting (a EXCUSE USED OFTEN).

Then that same archeologist (if anyone can find his name PLEASE link it here) again continued the investigation and discovered though ground penetrating radar chambers (multiple) under the ground around the sphinx. He suggested it may be the place of the legendary hall of records/knowedge.

These chambers were suggested for DECADES but that windbag hawass fought it tooth and nail as an "expert" OOOPS egg again on his face.

So that he do. SAME

THING and claimed that person could not dig or explore it further because "the mighty Hawass" has to be the one to "protect egypts archelogical treasures".

Funny thing in both cases the investigations seem to have not been done, or have but no information given because Hawass has to answer to NOBODY. He takes great pleasure in reminding everyone he is the "expert' and he has found nothing to contradict conventional (in his case) egyptian history.

There are litterally HUNDREDS OF HAWASS'S that make up "main stream" archeology. Their tactics of dealing with competing theories (no matter how much evidence you have) is the same.

Try getting any of them to EVEN ADMIT THEY MAY BE WRONG. All they say is "we need evidence" but only from "established" experts. Like having Enron investigate itself.

The site on this show gave ample evidence from experts in such areas as stone cutting, construction, ect. that the established "wisdom' (pardon me while I try to compose myself after that BS)....of experts does not fit common sense.

I don't have to be an archeological expert to realize if there are no trees, pinpoint straight lines, and blocks of different shapes fit together like leggos made by primative civilizations that conventional wisdom goes out the window. No matter how may "experts" say it isn't so.

I don't know if there is lost knowledge, alien intervention, or another hi-tech people that wiped themselves out. But unless we are willing to use that gray matter inbetween our ears and common sense expect the true facts never to be found.

The two questions we should be asking (especially on ATS) are these.


1. Why are supposed expert archeologist so against admitting they may be wrong in the face of CREDIBLE EVIDENCE against previously accepted theories and/or facts?

2. What forces are in play that convince main stream archeologists/scientist/higher education institutions/govermental agencies to continue to deny evidence and refuse to investigate (hawass)facts that are plain to any "layman"?