Attachment Disorder: Research Issues, Sources, Relationship Impacts, Implications: My View

reply to post by lonewolf19792000



WELL PUT.

The seductiveness of evil virtually always hides or distorts the horrors involved.

Death has become 'exciting' with skulls and bones and violence glorified by millions of ATTACHMENT DISORDERED victims of the sick piping of the Pied Piper . . .

the sick sirens of the Morlachs . . .

the sick scurrying of the lemmings toward the cliff.

Thankfully, The Cross on Golgatha points to authentic deliverance . . . for those willing to surrender the role of

such a wretched man as I . . .

for the Blood-washed sinner--i.e. saint saved by His Grace . . .

I don't think I'd be alive now without Him . . . much less mostly recovered from my own ATTACHMENT DISORDERED childhood.

Sigh.

PTL.

Thx.

Excellent thread BO XIAN s&f

Myself, i don't really remember much about my childhood.
Before i was born, my mum was a normal person, houseproud and happy.
My dad worked hard, had a decent job and looked after the family well.
My mum was a perfectionist, everything had to be perfect and in it's place, my dad told me it drove him nuts sometimes lol.
The day i was born, all that changed, as soon as i arrived, i was rushed away into a different room, my mum was confused, my dad demanded to see me, but all the doctors would say is there were complications.
At last they got to see me, and were told that i was born with a clubbed foot, and that i needed an operation.
When we were finally released from hospital, things changed big time, my mum's world was no longer perfect,(She doesn't blame me, for her change), everything seemed out of place and some how corrupted for her, in her mind nothing was perfect anymore.
After a while she was diagnoised with OCD, she developed a phobia of dirt, everything had to be washed, then washed again, because she couldn't remember if she'd wash it.

I remember my dad had to undress at the front door when he got home from work, before he was allowed any further into the house, then into the bath, my mum washing the floor behind him as he went.
Us kids were well fed and clothed, i think we were happy, i don't remember ever being unhappy or sad, to me it seemed like a normal family life.
But by the same token, i don't ever remember my mum or dad saying they love me, i also can't remember getting a hug or cuddle, try as i might, i just can't remember.

reply to post by andypb



WOW, BRO,

Sorry to break this to you . . .

Your mom's perfectionism alone

WAS SUFFICIENT to result in at least SOME significant degrees of ATTACHMENT DISORDER.

The OCD stuff DEFINITELY WAS.

and the lack of physical affection ALONE was also SUFFICIENT TO PRODUCE VERY SIGNIFICANT DEGREES of ATTACHMENT DISORDER.

Babies and children's brains--all our brains and our immune systems

ARE DESIGNED TO NEED lavish amounts of healthy PHYSICAL AFFECTION for optimum function and health.

The odds are, that your Mum also had a significant degree of ATTACHMENT DISORDER before she ever met your Dad. And possibly, him as well else they'd not have been such a matched set, as it were.

How much is impossible to say on such little info but I'd GUESSTIMATE that the odds are in that direction.

I'm curious . . . and you certainly don't have to answer on the public forum . . .

Is there ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL that the lack of physical affection in your earlier years . . . has resulted in a less than ideal functioning in some of your adult relationships?

I realize that Brits and the UK are not exactly affection friendly, generally, in lots of respects, unless my info is wrong.

However, last I checked, Brits ARE homo sapiens and soooooooooooo were ALSO CREATED NEEDING SUCH whether their culture acknowledges it and encourages it, or not.

The research is pretty clear on such scores. LOL.

THANKS TONS for your kind comment on the thread and your encouraging words.

The odds are, that your Mum also had a significant degree of ATTACHMENT DISORDER before she ever met your Dad. And possibly, him as well else they'd not have been such a matched set, as it were.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I'm not to sure about my dad's background, but i know my mum's mum was an alcoholic and quite abusive to my mum.
She would often lock my mum in a cupboard, when she had other men round, and my mum's dad was at work.
I think my mum was closer to her dad, she told me that he always treated her well, and would stick up for her, if her mum was being abusive.

Is there ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL that the lack of physical affection in your earlier years . . . has resulted in a less than ideal functioning in some of your adult relationships?

I don't know if this counts, but i'm very nervous and shy when talking to women i don't know,
that fades after i have known them for a while.
Not now, but when i was in my 20's, i was a very needy person, i always needed reasurance in my relationships that i was loved and needed, almost clingy in a way.
Also i was quite a jealous person, and terrified i would loose my girlfriend, i was very insecure.

reply to post by andypb



ZOWIE!

THAT'S PLENTY JUNK TO FLOW DOWNHILL into your lap.

CONGRATS on overcoming so well, so much of it.

Sounds like you are great at loving your kids.

Would you say or not . . . that your earlier . . . ATTCHMENT DISORDER related choices influenced relationship choices earlier in your life?

Any consequences you're still wrestling with on such scores?

Thanks for your meaty and kind responses.

Originally posted by andypb

I don't know if this counts, but i'm very nervous and shy when talking to women i don't know,
that fades after i have known them for a while.
Not now, but when i was in my 20's, i was a very needy person, i always needed reasurance in my relationships that i was loved and needed, almost clingy in a way.
Also i was quite a jealous person, and terrified i would loose my girlfriend, i was very insecure.

Yeah. It counts. Some of that same stuff that flowed down even from your mother.

That kind of insecurity is such a weight around the neck and worse. I'm several thousand percent better on such scores, too. Most folks would probably not be aware I had 0.05% of a problem with such stuff.

Yet at 65 with tons of therapy and group work and prayer etc . . . I can still have significant twinges of such.

I just ignore them and do the loving, vulnerable, risky, bold, relational thing anyway--at least 95% of the time.

I'm done letting feelings have tyrannical rule over me.

PTL for that.

reply to post by BO XIAN

CONGRATS on overcoming so well, so much of it.

Would you say or not . . . that your earlier . . . ATTCHMENT DISORDER related choices influenced relationship choices earlier in your life?


TBH, i'm surprised i made it though my younger years, i left home at 14,(i couldn't put up with having to go through the chore of getting undressed at the door, if i'd been out), and mixed with the wrong sort of people.
I was either drunk, stoned on weed or both, at most times of the day or night, and my bed was at any friends place i could crash, or in the local woods.
I was always getting into fights, and i'm ashamed to say this but i loved fighting, it gave me a form of release.
Until one day, during a fight, i was stabbed in the stomach, and spent the next week in hospital, that was like a wakeup call to me, and slowly i turned my life around.

Sounds like you are great at loving your kids

Thank you.


My three kids are my world, and i couldn't live without them, and i would do anything in the world for them.
Me and my ex split-up about 3 months ago,(due to her wanting extra attention from my best "friend" while i was at work).
This was a dark time for me, filled with hate, shock and anger, that i thought at the time i could not shake off, but talking about it with someone now i consider a friend and having my 3 kids around every couple of weeks has pulled me through.
I always tell my kids i love them, and give them a hug, and the beautiful thing is, i don't have to ask for a hug, my 2 boy's are 14 and 15 and they still hug me and give me a kiss, even if their friends are there.
And my daughter?, well shes like my shadow, has been since she was very little,(she is now 12), and they can't wait until i get a bigger place, cause they all want to move in with me.
I'm so proud of my 3 kids, and their whole out look on life, we talk about everything and anything,(including ATS lol), we make plans together, of what were going to do that day or where were going to go, and we all pull our wait as a little family unit.

Any consequences you're still wrestling with on such scores?

I'm still nervous around women, and shy till i get to know someone, and i still have moments of insecurity, but on the whole i've put my demons behind me, even forgiven my ex for her cheating and lying.

What most important in this world is loving our kids, there's too many parents now,(in the UK at least), that don't care where their kids are, they don't care what their kid's opinion is.
If parents don't include their kids in the family unit or don't let them have an opinion, then they will alienate that child, and they will feel like an outsider.
And most of all we need to tell our kid's we love them, and give them a random hug or just a touch on their shoulder as we pass.

reply to post by andypb



WHAT AN

[color=66CCFF]ABSOLUTELY IMPRESSIVE TRACKRECORD
[color=66CCFF]OF RECOVERY FROM THE BRINK.
[color=66CCFF]YEA! YEA! YEA!.

WONDERFUL.

What a stab to the gut on both occasions . . . the knife and the wife.

Prayers for a bigger place and transportation.

Obviously the wife has plenty of her own huge levels of ATTACHMENT DISORDER and demonic influences. Sigh.

Am particularly impressed that your boys still hug and kiss at their ages regardless of friends being around. I always insisted to myself that I'd train my kids and love them sufficiently for that . . . leaving the choice still, of course, to them. But then I was so determined to avoid visiting my family generational crud on another generation that I had a vasectomy. LOL.

I remain grealy impressed at all you've achieved over all those horrific odds. Yea!

Am honored to know you and call you a Friend and ATS Bro.

LUB,

reply to post by BO XIAN

WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY IMPRESSIVE TRACKRECORD OF RECOVERY FROM THE BRINK. YEA! YEA! YEA!. WONDERFUL.

Thanks so much for your kinds words.

What a stab to the gut on both occasions . . . the knife and the wife.

LOL, i don't know which hurt worse.....the wife or knife.

Obviously the wife has plenty of her own huge levels of ATTACHMENT DISORDER and demonic influences. Sigh.

I know her dad was selfish in some ways, but not abusive, her mum is a lovely person who would do anything for her kids.....we still get on well, and she can't understand why my ex would do what she did.

Am particularly impressed that your boys still hug and kiss at their ages regardless of friends being around. I always insisted to myself that I'd train my kids and love them sufficiently for that . . . leaving the choice still, of course, to them. But then I was so determined to avoid visiting my family generational crud on another generation that I had a vasectomy. LOL. I remain grealy impressed at all you've achieved over all those horrific odds. Yea!

Like i said at the end of my previous post, we need to love our kids, listen to their problems and concerns,teach them repect for others and involve them in the family unit.
Just because their not that cute little baby anymore, doesn't mean we should love them differently, their still our baby's, whatever the age, but they are older and have opinions and problems, just because they are kids, doesn't make their problems and voice less important than the "adults".
There are a few parents out there that don't show feelings towards their kids, they don't care how their kids are doing at school, don't care what their kids get up to when they are out with their mates.
And it makes me angry when i see foul mouth kids causing trouble on the streets and getting into fights, when just some love and understanding from the "parents" in their life, could change these kids and turn their life around, and yes i'm blaming the parents.

Am honored to know you and call you a Friend and ATS Bro. LUB,

And thank you so much for all you've done BO XIAN, you are a true 1 in a million friend.
Love and peace to you and yours my friend.
Andy.

Originally posted by andypb

I know her dad was selfish in some ways, but not abusive, her mum is a lovely person who would do anything for her kids.....we still get on well, and she can't understand why my ex would do what she did.

You may have read the many things that result in RAD above . . . smothering was left off the list but can also do it. As does the opposite--coldness, indifference, selfishness of the parent etc. Anything that prevents a healthy close emotional bond with the child.

Congrats on still being on good terms with your Mother-in-law.

Would you say your ex-wife was exhibiting more of the selfishness of her father?

I wonder what one liner "thought-bmbs" the kids could lob in her direction . . . one every week or two . . . that would lodge in her memory and niggle away at her provoking thought and soul-searching.

I'll have to prayerfully ponder that. Tee hee. Sometimes, even I think I'm insufferable. LOL.

Like i said at the end of my previous post, we need to love our kids, listen to their problems and concerns,teach them repect for others and involve them in the family unit.

Just because their not that cute little baby anymore, doesn't mean we should love them differently, their still our baby's, whatever the age, but they are older and have opinions and problems, just because they are kids, doesn't make their problems and voice less important than the "adults".

There are a few parents out there that don't show feelings towards their kids, they don't care how their kids are doing at school, don't care what their kids get up to when they are out with their mates.
And it makes me angry when i see foul mouth kids causing trouble on the streets and getting into fights, when just some love and understanding from the "parents" in their life, could change these kids and turn their life around, and yes i'm blaming the parents.

Actually, I think--at least in the USA and in Asia--and in what I saw of Europe--there are a LOT of parents who don't show healthy love etc. feelings towards their kids. Everyone is so pressured, impatient, stressed etc. . . . and insecure and selfish . . . and arrogant. Sigh.

I agree that powerful loving helps turn a lot of people around.

The book:

The book HOW TO HAVE A NEW KID BY FRIDAY is a good model for folks to follow if they aren't doing as well as you are clearly doing.

The author was just in town for a seminar and it was widely acclaimed.

Hmmmm . . . if the ex-wife is acting like a child . . . perhaps her mother and all who connect should treat her accordingly as much as . . . workable. LOL. There I go, getting radical again.

And thank you so much for all you've done BO XIAN, you are a true 1 in a million friend.
Love and peace to you and yours my friend.
Andy.

I feel similarly toward you. You are exceedingly welcome, of course.

I keep having to remind myself that the pic in your avatar slot is Tony Blair and NOT you. LOL.

reply to post by BO XIAN

Would you say your ex-wife was exhibiting more of the selfishness of her father?

I think so, yes.....Let me give you an example, this took place last month.
I went to pick up my three kids from their mums, she invited me in as the kids wasn't quite ready yet.
Well we made small talk as she was unpacking her shopping, then she pulls out some cadbury magnum ice creams, (don't know if you have these in the US, but they are quite expensive here), so i said " oh the kids like them", she looked at me and said "these are not for the kids, i get the cheap one's from icelands",(cheap supermarket here in the UK)," for them".
I really had to bite my tongue, but that gives you some idea of her thought process towards the kids.

I wonder what one liner "thought-bmbs" the kids could lob in her direction . . . one every week or two . . . that would lodge in her memory and niggle away at her provoking thought and soul-searching.

TBH, i don't think that would have any effect on her, the kids have said things in the past, just to play on her conscience, but it just ends up with my ex saying F%*@ off to the kids.

I keep having to remind myself that the pic in your avatar slot is Tony Blair and NOT you. LOL.

LOL...I'm thinking of changing it, to a pic of my 3 kids....Tony looks pretty scary lool.

Originally posted by andypb
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I think so, yes.....Let me give you an example, this took place last month.
I went to pick up my three kids from their mums, she invited me in as the kids wasn't quite ready yet.
Well we made small talk as she was unpacking her shopping, then she pulls out some cadbury magnum ice creams, (don't know if you have these in the US, but they are quite expensive here), so i said " oh the kids like them", she looked at me and said "these are not for the kids, i get the cheap one's from icelands",(cheap supermarket here in the UK)," for them".

I really had to bite my tongue, but that gives you some idea of her thought process towards the kids.

What rank hideousness!

Hmmmmm . . .

I'd have been tempted to say something like . . .

"Wellllll that's no doubt a VERY EFFECTIVE way to communicate that luxury ice cream is more important to you than they are."

I might have walked out and waited for the kids in the car.

---
I wonder what one liner "thought-bmbs" the kids could lob in her direction . . . one every week or two . . . that would lodge in her memory and niggle away at her provoking thought and soul-searching.

TBH, i don't think that would have any effect on her, the kids have said things in the past, just to play on her conscience, but it just ends up with my ex saying F%*@ off to the kids.

Oh, I have no doubt of that. Anything the kids said would have to be extremely clever and sort of mystifying on the surface of it--not something she could glibly slide past easily. Not that she wouldn't try. LOL. And she'd probably be flip and use foul language. Which could serve to notify the kids that they struck pay dirt yet again.

Don't know if I can come up with an example . . .

"Hey mom! THANKS for that cheap ice cream. It really helps me reach my humility goals for the week."

"Hey Mom. You're starting to worry me. I'm beginning to get concerned that all that expensive ice cream is turning you into an elitist snob fat cat. I don't know how easily I can sleep nights if you're turning into the likes of Tony Blair."

"Hey, Mom. Please leave me out of the allotment of cheap ice cream this week. I think you could use the money and I don't think my self-esteem can take the hit this week."

None of the above quite reach to what I'm trying to describe. I'll think on it.

LOL...I'm thinking of changing it, to a pic of my 3 kids....Tony looks pretty scary lool.

I'm considering sending you a link to my college about page. The photo shows my character pretty well.

Thx thx.
.
.,

reply to post by BO XIAN

What rank hideousness! Hmmmmm . . . I'd have been tempted to say something like . . . "Wellllll that's no doubt a VERY EFFECTIVE way to communicate that luxury ice cream is more important to you than they are."

The stange thing is, she was never like that when i was living their, maybe because she knew i wouldn't let that happen.

I might have walked out and waited for the kids in the car.

I would have walked out, but it was raining outside, and i didn't want to give her the pleasure of seeing me get soaked lol, plus the bus stop is a 15 min walk away, so i didn't want the kids walking there on their own.

Don't know if I can come up with an example . . . "Hey mom! THANKS for that cheap ice cream. It really helps me reach my humility goals for the week." "Hey Mom. You're starting to worry me. I'm beginning to get concerned that all that expensive ice cream is turning you into an elitist snob fat cat. I don't know how easily I can sleep nights if you're turning into the likes of Tony Blair." "Hey, Mom. Please leave me out of the allotment of cheap ice cream this week. I think you could use the money and I don't think my self-esteem can take the hit this week."

LOOOL, thank you....these did make me lool.

reply to post by andypb



Right. Forgot about no car.

Glad you had some laughs from them.

What I was trying to come up with and haven't yet quite made was something that was sort of

NONSENSICAL on the face of it . . . but would trigger some unconscious pondering to barely conscious . . .

"Wow, Mom, that ice cream is really wierd. It smells like gold."

or

"Wow, Mom, that funky ice cream REALLY looks like b-flat."

"Wow, Mom, that chocolate-chip ice cream must feel like a D-minor tumbleweed."

"Oh, Mom, some guy called and said that they're out of gold leaf for your ice cream but it might be available again in a couple of weeks."

"Mom there was some wierd gal who called from the ice cream shop and complained about you drooling all over the ice cream. I told her that she must be mistaken that you only drool over the expensive ice cream."

And then walk off and REFUSE ABSOLUTELY to explain the sentence.

Anyway--probably the ice cream is not a big thing to make any kind of issue over. However, the arrogance and selfishness represented are.

What could be a more direct statement . . .

"Ya know, Mom, Expensive ice cream is NOT going to fill up your daddy holes."

"Mom, you can grab and grasp and claw and demand all you are worth . . . and your daddy holes will still be bottomless pits. There is a better way to grow up."

"Ya know, Mom, it's a bit embarrassing to be maturing faster than our Mom is."

"Mom, we do NOT enjoy being manipulated poker chips between you and Dad. Play your own games. Leave us out of it."

"Mom, it's dreadfully sad that your dad didn't have enough love to go around or know how to give it lavishly and authentically enough to fill all your needy holes. However, we're not your dad. We're not your love vending machine. We're not your automatic proof that you're worth breathing air and taking up space. If you want to feel worthwhile, quit being a prissy selfish prig and do things that others will respect you for, truly love you freely for--with no strings attached. Strings attached are incompatable with authentic love, Mom."

Anyway--enough blather.

Probably none of those would work well in the context concerned but maybe they'll foster ideas that would work.


Blessings,

Thanks for your kind words.

reply to post by BO XIAN


The strange thing i find is,(and the kids told me this), that sometimes she breaks down crying, and saying things like,"oh you love your dad more than me" or " your dad has turned you against me".
It's like she can't see how she treats the kids.
I've told the kids that when that happens, then it's the perfect time to let her know the problems they see,
and talk about how their treated.

In cultures where more people are involved in the upbringing of a child, and there is generalized social support for parents, children are better attached and calmer.

Attachment Parenting and the ecological parenting movement amoung women primarily has quite a bit of information about these practices. You can look here for an "in" to these ideas. wwww.mothering.com

Acceptance from men about adopting a more attachment style parenting is primarily coming from their partners. Some of the biggest opposition is coming out of the evangelical movement.

Originally posted by andypb
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I've told the kids that when that happens, then it's the perfect time to let her know the problems they see,
and talk about how their treated.

I totally agree.

Let me ponder those issues . . . I'll get back to you. Have a full plate today.

Sounds like your kids could be very powerful with mum . . . though it would be tricky.

Sad for them to be cast in that role. Given that they are . . . no use wimping out, imho.

reply to post by Aeons



www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332433994&sr=8-1

IS WRITTEN BY TWO EVANGELICALS.

There's a lot of support amongst a chunk of Evangelicals for better attachment by fathers. There's a lot of men's movement stuff that strongly encourages better attachment of fathers to their children

and . . . helps them learn how to do it better.

I think your information is flawed and incomplete.

IS WRITTEN BY TWO EVANGELICALS.

There's a lot of support amongst a chunk of Evangelicals for better attachment by fathers. There's a lot of men's movement stuff that strongly encourages better attachment of fathers to their children

and . . . helps them learn how to do it better.

I think your information is flawed and incomplete.

I am not saying all evangelicals are, just that most of the most vehement denials and the deepest shock I have come across as someone who practiced attachment parenting came from evangelicals. One of the most egregious parenting methods I've ever come across was being spread in the evangelical churches....I'm going to have to think about it because I can't remember the name of the one method.

I would be happy to find that this is changing. Some wonderful men are advocating for more attachment style parenting, and I think that they are simply fantastic. For example:

askdrsears.com...

mensstudies.metapress.com...

reply to post by Aeons



Yes, I agree . . . there have been many dreadful things done as though they were righteous things to do. Sigh.

Thankfully, Focus on the Family and others have worked hard to change things in the Evangelical community.

I particularly like

HOW TO HAVE A NEW KID BY FRIDAY by . .
Have a New Kid by Friday: How to Change Your Child's Attitude, Behavior & Character in 5 Days By Dr. Kevin Leman [Hardcover] It's also on Kindle

. forgetting his name . . . was just in town . . .

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1332451110&sr=8-2

Dr Kevin Leman

He's pretty funny as well. He probably has some videos on youtube.

And, there's:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1332451110&sr=8-4

Have a New Teenager by Friday: From Mouthy and Moody to Respectful and Responsible in 5 Days [Hardcover]

Well done books.

Very practical and doable.