Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath - Afghan probe

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


You obviously lack the tools to debate this, so you accuse me of ad hominem attacks.
Please point out my attack, please and thank you!

You 2 are blatantly lying to yourselves. Your passionately defending the afgan story, yet when I defend the official story, I am out of line how? Why am I not allowed a passionate opinion? Why is my stance personal, yet yours isn't? You don't see the hypocrisy there?

If this was on a Disney site, both of you would wallow in your apparent righteousness. BUT, here on ATS, your dodging and bias will be seen for exactly what it is.

Link

First of all, that site is not a site I would refer to for the truth. If I was looking for an Anti American slant, I would consider browsing.
How come you guys are so blinded by your bias?
The investigator CLEARLY states IN YOUR LINK.

“We are convinced that one soldier cannot kill so many people in two villages within one hour at the same time, and the 16 civilians, most of them children and women, have been killed by the two groups,” investigator Hamizai Lali told Afghan News.

NOT, we saw 2, 3 or 4 soldiers, simply we doubt it could be done by 1.

Do some more research!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
OK fine.

ONE guy killed 16 people.
and he gets flown out and escapes trial and punishment.

He hasn't escaped a thing. He landed in Kansas awhile ago and is getting processed into one of the most secure facilities the United States operates, anywhere in the world. It's also one of the less pleasant, even by U.S. Prison standards...as I understand things. This guy, bringing the wrath of the whole war and world into his fellow troops by what he did over there won't likely get any atta-boys in the yard in his future...unless they are delivered with all the force one can put behind something.

I'm being realistic here though..He has NO bright points for the rest of his life and he's probably arrived at the same place he'll grow old and someday die in. In this case, perhaps the slow, endless passing of days in a no-B.S. place like Fort Leavenworth is the best thing. He'll have decades with that medical care..to die one day at a time.

Why people think he's getting away with anything though is totally beyond me. The Military is absolutely not forgiving about anything when it's moved beyond the point where keeping things quiet is impossible. Cover-Up turns to looking for Martyrs with little in-between..and this guy will be AT LEAST one of those to serve natural life in a very VERY ugly place.

***. ..I'd seen earlier this was a single family over there. Not 16 random civilians across a village as it first sounded..but the same family in different houses. Perhaps there is a personal element or revenge motive here too.... I'm reserving most of my judgement until we know A LOT more.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


But if it is decided he has brain damage and was insane when he killed the civilians, it will be a few years of treatment and a medical discharge.

Frankly I hate what he did and he deserves to be punished, but the guy has also ruined his life. He is a 38 NCO and not a 20 year old ex-gangbanger. So how many of these atrocities has he done before?

Our troops are going insane! The greatest pressure cooker in the world is going to produce some crack-pot irrational and demented individuals. I pity the poor bastard. Sure he needs to be locked up probably, but I don't think our anger should be directed at him. He surely wasn't acting in any kind of normal way. Blame the mofos who put him there, who have kept our boys there this long. Pity the innocents killed, but also our innocent countrymen turned killers!

We better not hand him over to those back stabbing "allies". Their troops and police are guilty of war crimes against our troops as well. Part of the reason why our boys are cracking!

Afghan Treachery Claims Another Life

6 American Trainers Killed by Afghan Police

Afghan Interior Ministry shooting kills 2 Americans

Afghan Pilot kills 8 US troops

Afghan Police Attack NATO Troops

That's what our boys have to deal with. A constant threat from every angle. The ally soldier that you'd die for, may just kill you when nobody is looking.

who we are supposed to be liberating

reply to post by sitchin


Haha, good one!

Does anyone still buy that nonsense?

Originally posted by SrWingCommander
I haven't weighed in on this,as I am still collecting my thoughts. I had thought (hoped) the US Military was past having Ma Li incidents. That advances in training and (somewhat) better psychological testing and technicques used with an all volunteer force, would prevent this. Looks like NOT. I mean it's one thing when innocents die because a bomb missed a target or something.....but this stuff I hate...paints the whole country badly.

The inconsistancies I find though trouble me too.

Soldier in question was 38. While anyone can flip out, I would think (for numerous reasons) that a younger soldier with less experience (and possibly a loner) would be more likely to do this then a 38 year old with a family.

Soldier was a staff sgt. More training, obviously trusted, more intelligence, leadership position, likely better educated. People with these traits are less likely to do this. Not saying it prevents it of course.

Special Forces. The psych testing, training, and observations these guys get to just become a member is intense. Primarily to prevent just this sort of incident......While these men may "see" more, they are also better equiped for numerous reasons to deal with it.

The only thing that really even starts to make sense is the "brain injury" excuse, but that's flimsey, and what exactly happened? A concusion, or more severe trauma? I would have a hard time beleiving if it was a serious trama that he was even deemed medically qualified to go back to active combat service.

I am not a psychologist or forensic person, but this guy just doesn't seem to fit the profile, IMHO of who would do this.

HOWEVER and JUST SPECULATING.......... if more guys are involved, is there any reason to start thinking this was some sort of Spec Ops mission gone wrong? Could this have been a hit on a high value target, surrounded by women and children, that just spun out of control? How easy to blame a "brain injured nut", then say an OP went totally bad.

Or maybe it was intentional. Could the taliban, as a switch in tactics, been using women in leadership or otherwise high level roles, and we took them out??? EXTREMELY unlikely..........but this whole thing just doesn't seem to add up for me. And then to cover up that we hit a bunch of women (with their kids too) we concocted this story?


The whole thing is sad......yet still doesn't make sense.
Then again, maybe he just went bat poo crazy..........

I reckon this is the best theory on what really happened as well. As a Staff Sergeant and a 38 year old does not fit the profile. Though it can and does happen and there are always variables in different situations. I would have to go with a Spec Ops theory of # went down and there were Civilian causalities not factored in to original plan.

reply to post by ScarletWitch

NOT, we saw 2, 3 or 4 soldiers, simply we doubt it could be done by 1.

what are you tapping about.. Did you not read the link that suggests witnesses had seen a helicopter offering support..?

Even going so far as to crushing their skulls and attempting to burn their bodies... Something very wrong is going on over there with the book burnings and violence. Shades of Sarajevo...

I couldn't help myself, this is a post at Freerepublic by a man claiming to have been the Bales platoon leader, has pictures of him and is a character witness. It seems reasonable that we are not by any means getting close to the truth here, I thought I would share. I have read both sides of this issue, and I can't judge by any means.



www.freerepublic.com...

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

But if it is decided he has brain damage and was insane when he killed the civilians, it will be a few years of treatment and a medical discharge.

Frankly I hate what he did and he deserves to be punished, but the guy has also ruined his life. He is a 38 NCO and not a 20 year old ex-gangbanger. So how many of these atrocities has he done before?

UCMJ doesnt work that way there In the military justice system there is no insanity defense.It can be considered in his defense so instead of being shot they might consider life in prison.But in no way shape or form will he get out of leavenworth he will die there.

Just so you understand levanworth hold the worst of the worst if you go there its a one way ticket. To give you an idea how deep the military just buried this guy the Fort Hood shooter didnt go to leavenworth.His life is effectively over one way or another to say hes getting off is just a total lack of understanding. The military justice system is nothing like civilian courts.

Originally posted by TKDRL
If it was one drunk guy, over an hour period, what does that say about the competence of our MP's?

MP's only got to outposts in war zones to pick up prisoners.

It never ceases to amaze me how quick people are to comment on things they know so little about!

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

But if it is decided he has brain damage and was insane when he killed the civilians, it will be a few years of treatment and a medical discharge.

Frankly I hate what he did and he deserves to be punished, but the guy has also ruined his life. He is a 38 NCO and not a 20 year old ex-gangbanger. So how many of these atrocities has he done before?

UCMJ doesnt work that way there In the military justice system there is no insanity defense.It can be considered in his defense so instead of being shot they might consider life in prison.But in no way shape or form will he get out of leavenworth he will die there.

Just so you understand levanworth hold the worst of the worst if you go there its a one way ticket. To give you an idea how deep the military just buried this guy the Fort Hood shooter didnt go to leavenworth.His life is effectively over one way or another to say hes getting off is just a total lack of understanding. The military justice system is nothing like civilian courts.

edit on 3/17/12 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

I predict that this guy will get court martial-ed before the Ft Hood shooter does (unless he was a Muslim convert), unless he gets some real good lawyers. [end cynicism]

Originally posted by L00kingGlass
Even going so far as to crushing their skulls and attempting to burn their bodies... Something very wrong is going on over there with the book burnings and violence. Shades of Sarajevo...

This dude must have been like the Flash to do all that. He took time to crush heads as he went around shooting.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

Originally posted by L00kingGlass
Even going so far as to crushing their skulls and attempting to burn their bodies... Something very wrong is going on over there with the book burnings and violence. Shades of Sarajevo...

This dude must have been like the Flash to do all that. He took time to crush heads as he went around shooting.

To crush someones head is very easy when you have a rifle only takes 1 hit. What this tells me is not all of them were shot. And since ive been there id advise you read my earlier post. He wouldnt even have to break a sweat. The villages arent miles away.To get to the first one maybe 500 yds the second could have been across the street.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

_________________

And rape two women ? American military
lies once again.
US forces raped two women
The turd took the fall for the group because he was the Sargent,
#2 he got away with crimes before, a hit and run and a previous
assault on a woman.
-received anger-management counseling following a 2002 arrest
at a Tacoma hotel for assault on a woman.
-Records also associated with Bales show that in 2009 he had a hit-and-run charge.
-Bales pleaded not guilty on both accounts yet underwent only 20 hours
of anger management treatment, and the case was dismissed.
(expect the same ? )
-police are stationed around the homes of Bales relatives. Reporters were given a statement by police and encouraged not to approach their homes.
(it should have been the same protection/treatment for the murdered children)
AMERICANS ON FOREIGN SOIL ARE TO PROTECT THE
WOMEN AND SAVE THE LIVES OF THE CHILDREN
Once again the american military has proven otherwise, they need to
LEAVE NOW ! ! !

Everyone knows one scapegoat couldn't rape twice, go from
house to house murdering the sleeping kids then burning their
bodies all by himself.
Witnesses and their loud cries must be the voice to the world.
U.S. has failed , they are inept when it comes to global affairs.
U.S. needs to pay retribution just as Germany had.
(at least Germany stepped up and took responsibility, U.S gov. on
the other hand is a failed circus)

relatives of the Kandahar shooting victims met with Karzai, where they described the mass murder was planned in advance and was carried out by a number of US forces. Haji Abdul Saboor, an elder from Panjwaii district, said it was an "absolute lie" that only one US soldier was responsible for the massacre. "How is it possible for someone to kill three and four people in a village and then travel over one kilometer to kill another four or five?"

____________________

reply to post by ToneDeaf


This is from press tv Thethe Irainian controlled newspaper i believe its called propaganda. As all ways they try to find unique ways to mess with the US. I even suspect the name is fake the house of the people in Afghanistan has a Haji Ameer Lali from Kandahar. And it would make sense for him to look into it since hes also on there armed services.But who is this guy?

____________________

right. that's just rubbish,
so the bodies of the dead babies are fake too ?
You mean propaganda as in Iraq has WMD,
Sadam was behind 911 ? At least we all know that there
is no death certificate, or autopsy report for Bin Ladden.
washington-white-wash
U.S. is not to be believed ever again and has lot all credence.

. . .but then there will always be the few bad apples who will
make excuses for urinating on dead people and burning books. right ?
incidences are the 'norm' with american military.
______________________

reply to post by CourageousEyesoftheHeart

I come from the Amazon Rain Forest and i recieved a major tos violation for using the word 'retard'.

He addressed all the *snip* who questioned his birth certificate over the last 2 years, what’s to explain ,not understanding the thread, really lost,kind of confused,whats your point?

But i guess i havnt been on the site as long as you have....i guess!

Originally posted by GLaDOS
I feel so sad when I see kids getting killed/hurt by the western forces.

But you dont mind when they are hurt/killed by the muslim terrorists....

reply to post by spoor


The US terrorists have just killed between 1-2 million civilians in two illegal wars neither of which were ratified by the UN. The US may think it above prosecution from war crimes. So did the Nazis, but they never looked so clever after the Nuremberg trials....


So who are these Muslim terrorists you talk of and how many women and children have they killed....